College Gaming PC

[Mrvile]

Originally posted by: shud
The 3700+ San Diego also has a 1MB L2 cache, although I doubt you'd be able to OC it as much as a Venice.

People have been hitting 2.8 on stock voltage, 2.9 on air.

 

[shud]

Originally posted by: Mrvile

Originally posted by: shud
The 3700+ San Diego also has a 1MB L2 cache, although I doubt you'd be able to OC it as much as a Venice.

People have been hitting 2.8 on stock voltage, 2.9 on air.

I stand corrected.

 

[BakedPhish]

The reason why i want to get a 3700+ or a 3800+ is because i want to use a 939 socket so i can get a dual core later on. Also I think I will upgrade my Video card in a year or so when the next generation drops down in price.

Do you think the single core CPUs will drop in price with in 2 months after the dual become popular?

 

[BakedPhish]

With the set up i have will it run WoW and HalfLife2 at decent FPS?

 

[Ike0069]

Originally posted by: Stokes
Well, I would really like to fit a 6800GT into the build if I can and keeping the price down. The thing with s754 that appealed was AGP is cheaper for the 6800GT and everything was cheaper allowing the 6800GT to come into play here. Maybe there are things in the build that have an alternative counterpart that is cheaper but just as good? Things like the PSU? (Please keep in mind noise)

Maybe a cheaper LCD that still is a good gamer, or different RAM?

It surprises me that the 3700 can't be overclocked that much....

If you want to go AGP, just get the K8N Neo2 Platinum MB. It uses the NF3 chipset (AGP), and is the best OC'ing NF3 board. You should be able to OC a 3200+ Venice extremely well with it, and then get your AGP 6800 GT to go with it.

 

[Stokes]

Originally posted by: Ike0069

Originally posted by: Stokes
Well, I would really like to fit a 6800GT into the build if I can and keeping the price down. The thing with s754 that appealed was AGP is cheaper for the 6800GT and everything was cheaper allowing the 6800GT to come into play here. Maybe there are things in the build that have an alternative counterpart that is cheaper but just as good? Things like the PSU? (Please keep in mind noise)

Maybe a cheaper LCD that still is a good gamer, or different RAM?

It surprises me that the 3700 can't be overclocked that much....

If you want to go AGP, just get the K8N Neo2 Platinum MB. It uses the NF3 chipset (AGP), and is the best OC'ing NF3 board. You should be able to OC a 3200+ Venice extremely well with it, and then get your AGP 6800 GT to go with it.

Whats the overall thought on doing this? I guess if I went PCI-E I could upgrade the video card down the road and not have to upgrade the entire system. Or I could go AGP and just save some money and go all out on a new system. Thoughts?

And what RAM with that board?

 

[Mrvile]

Originally posted by: BakedPhish
The reason why i want to get a 3700+ or a 3800+ is because i want to use a 939 socket so i can get a dual core later on. Also I think I will upgrade my Video card in a year or so when the next generation drops down in price.

Do you think the single core CPUs will drop in price with in 2 months after the dual become popular?

3700+ and 3800+ aren't the only 939 socket CPUs out there. Those are the higher end models, the 3000+, 3200+, and 3500+ are the ones you want to look at getting. They cost about a two thirds to half as much, and aren't really noticeably slower.

Get a socket 939, PCI-express motherboard and you're good to go for a good few years.

 

[Ike0069]

Basically the the difference is no SLI possibility (although I don't think SLI is a good choice anyways), and when you are ready to upgrade the VC, AGP may not be available or may be more expensive. This is an unknown right now.
But a 6800 GT will likely last you until you are ready to get a new MB anyways. The safest decision would be to go with PCI-e, but that doesn't mean it's the best decision. I personally think AGP still has life left, and I expect the next generation cards to be fully released in AGP also.

 

[Mrvile]

Originally posted by: BakedPhish
With the set up i have will it run WoW and HalfLife2 at decent FPS?

Definately. Here's an even cheaper setup that will run them both perfectly:

CPU: 3200+
Motherboard: Any good nForce4 motherboard like DFI, MSI, Asus
Video card: 6800GT or X800XL
Ram: 1GB Corsair Valueram
Hard drive: Any good brand 7200rpm SATA of at least 120GB

And everything else you listed. The whole setup would cost about 1400 dollars, and would run HL2 at 1200 x 1000 with maxed settings quite well.

 

[Mrvile]

Originally posted by: Ike0069
Basically the the difference is no SLI possibility (although I don't think SLI is a good choice anyways), and when you are ready to upgrade the VC, AGP may not be available or may be more expensive. This is an unknown right now.
But a 6800 GT will likely last you until you are ready to get a new MB anyways. The safest decision would be to go with PCI-e, but that doesn't mean it's the best decision. I personally think AGP still has life left, and I expect the next generation cards to be fully released in AGP also.

:thumbsup: I don't really like the idea of SLI either unless you have unlimited amounts of money. I think a single powerful video card is still the way to go. When your video card starts losing steam, you can just replace it with the next generation of your choice.

 

[Stokes]

The retail MSI Neo-2 Plat:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130468

Refurbished:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130468R

Its more then half the price! So tempting!

Also seems the XP-120 won't fit that motherboard according to thermalright, so maybe just go with the xp-90 in that case?

And what are some good choices for ram on this board? Looking for that mid-range.

I'll still stick with the 3200+ Venice and overclock it, too bad the XP-120 won't fit on the board.

Anything else in my original build that has a cheaper competitor that is just as good?

Here is the list again (minus the DFI Ultra-D and video card):

Power Supply: SeaSonic S12-430 ATX12V 430W $100
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice Socket 939 $196
RAM: OCZ Gold Series 1GB (2 x 512MB) (VX4000 right?) $155
Hard Drive: SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series SP1614C 160GB $80
Monitor: HYUNDAI L90D+ Silver 19" 8ms LCD Monitor $339
DVD-R: NEC 3520A $46
Heatsink: Thermalright XP-90 $41
Speakers: Logitech x-230 $39
Mouse: Logitech MX-518

 

[shud]

Originally posted by: Mrvile

Originally posted by: BakedPhish
With the set up i have will it run WoW and HalfLife2 at decent FPS?

Definately. Here's an even cheaper setup that will run them both perfectly:

CPU: 3200+
Motherboard: Any good nForce4 motherboard like DFI, MSI, Asus
Video card: 6800GT or X800XL
Ram: 1GB Corsair Valueram
Hard drive: Any good brand 7200rpm SATA of at least 120GB

And everything else you listed. The whole setup would cost about 1400 dollars, and would run HL2 at 1200 x 1000 with maxed settings quite well.

$1400? There's no way. I have a setup with 2GB of Corsair Value and a 3700+ and it's only just over $900.

 

[DanDaMan315]

Originally posted by: Stokes
The price of the overall system probably would be the same if not less, when you consider the price difference estimated here:

DFI NF3: $103
DFI Ultra-D: $132
Difference: $29

Venice 3200+ : $197
3700+ ClawHammer: 290
Difference: $93

Total Difference: $64

$64 worth the performance increase?

PCI-E x800xl: $269
AGP x800xl: $316
Difference: $47

PCI-E 6800GT: $350 (Estimate)
AGP 6800GT: $290 (Estimate)
Difference: $60

PCI-E x800xl versus AGP 6800GT
roughly $10 difference

What are the overall thoughts here?

In no way does a Venice 3200 = Clawhammer 1mb cache 3700. NO WAY. The 3700 will smoke it, the 3700 will do 2.7 stable on air, and this 2.7 is greater than a Venice 2.7 b/c of the added cache. The only real added benefit of 939 is dual channel support, which for A64's the increase is only about 5%, not enough to make up for the greatly increased clock speed.

My friend has a 3700 and it seems to overclock better than the lower Clawhammer chips.

Not many people get a new CPU without buying a new motherboard as well, so it's just my opinion that for people, like myself, who don't plan on buying a new computer every 6 months, that 754 is good option.

 

[Stokes]

Is it very viable to get 2.7 stable? By an everyday overclocker with value ram? Or is that a number people have gotten to in the past?

The price of the 3700+ is very similar, probably a difference of maybe $50 in the end. (In comparison to the Venice 3200+ build)

Now the s939 build with the AGP 6800GT is probably the cheapest of all of them, especially with that refurbished motherboard.

Thoughts? and what ram would go with these boards

 

[Mrvile]

Originally posted by: shud

Originally posted by: Mrvile

Originally posted by: BakedPhish
With the set up i have will it run WoW and HalfLife2 at decent FPS?

Definately. Here's an even cheaper setup that will run them both perfectly:

CPU: 3200+
Motherboard: Any good nForce4 motherboard like DFI, MSI, Asus
Video card: 6800GT or X800XL
Ram: 1GB Corsair Valueram
Hard drive: Any good brand 7200rpm SATA of at least 120GB

And everything else you listed. The whole setup would cost about 1400 dollars, and would run HL2 at 1200 x 1000 with maxed settings quite well.

$1400? There's no way. I have a setup with 2GB of Corsair Value and a 3700+ and it's only just over $900.

There's no way that all that stuff is 900. The 3700+ alone is about 330 dollars, and the 2GB ram is another 140. Plus the video card, that's about 350, with the motherboard is 140, hard drive is 120, the Audigy ZS is 90...plus the PSU, case, peripherals etc. that's all way over 900 dollars. Shud, please think before you post.

 

[Mrvile]

Originally posted by: Stokes
Is it very viable to get 2.7 stable? By an everyday overclocker with value ram? Or is that a number people have gotten to in the past?

The price of the 3700+ is very similar, probably a difference of maybe $50 in the end. (In comparison to the Venice 3200+ build)

Now the s939 build with the AGP 6800GT is probably the cheapest of all of them, especially with that refurbished motherboard.

Thoughts? and what ram would go with these boards

Probably not able to get 2.7 with a 3200+ if you use valueram. You'll probably need DDR500, but there's some nice DDR500 ram out there that's not too expensive.

Try http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820144517

or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141139

 

[Stokes]

Thanks for the ram suggestion. I'm still unsure of what to go with. I've now moved over to AGP for sure and either the s939 Neo2 Plat w/ a 3200 venice OR s754 3700 Clawhammer on the DFI NF3.

Torn at what to do.

 

[Excelsior]

Go 939.

 

[Ike0069]

Originally posted by: DanDaMan315
In no way does a Venice 3200 = Clawhammer 1mb cache 3700. NO WAY. The 3700 will smoke it, the 3700 will do 2.7 stable on air, and this 2.7 is greater than a Venice 2.7 b/c of the added cache. The only real added benefit of 939 is dual channel support, which for A64's the increase is only about 5%, not enough to make up for the greatly increased clock speed.

My friend has a 3700 and it seems to overclock better than the lower Clawhammer chips.

Not many people get a new CPU without buying a new motherboard as well, so it's just my opinion that for people, like myself, who don't plan on buying a new computer every 6 months, that 754 is good option.

Well, the 3200+ would be OC'ed also. The 3200+ venice should reach 2.6-2.8 GHz, so they would end up being about the same. Then consider the 3200+ is about $100 cheaper, and that's why it's a very good choice.

 

[Ike0069]

Originally posted by: Stokes
Thanks for the ram suggestion. I'm still unsure of what to go with. I've now moved over to AGP for sure and either the s939 Neo2 Plat w/ a 3200 venice OR s754 3700 Clawhammer on the DFI NF3.

Torn at what to do.

Both those boards are top of the line OC'ers. Can't go wrong with either, but personally I would go with the S939. You can always get a 3500+ Venice (about the same price as a 3700+ clawhammer) if you'd like. It likely won't OC any higher than the 3200+ though.

As for the MB, I would advise against a refurb, especially on an OC'ing MB. It most likely won't come with any extras 9including an I/O plate, cables, or manual. Plus the fact that it was returned for a reason, and that reason my be it had problems OC'ing.

And check out jab-tech.com for your XP-90/120. Prices are the lowest around, service is top notch, and they have the panaflo fan you'll want for cheap.

 

[Stokes]

Hmmm, well it looks like 939 is the way to go because of overclocking ability. Just gonna throw out some prices on the items that are different in setups:

s754 Setup:

Athlon 64 3700+ Clawhammer
DFI Lanparty NF3 250GB
Leadtek 6800GT AGP
GEIL 1 GB DDR500 RAM

TOTAL: $819.94

s939 Setup:

Athlon 64 3200+ Venice
MSI Neo2 Platinum
Leadtek 6800GT AGP
GEIL 1GB DDR500 RAM

TOTAL: $761.94

s939 PCI-E Setup

Athlon 64 3200+ Venice
DFI Ultra-D
Rosewill x800xl PCI-E
GEIL 1GB DDR500 RAM
OR
OCZ Platinum Rev 2 1GB (add $33)

Total: $749.93


From my understanding, the 2nd setup is the better choice of both since I'm not planning on upgrading for 2 years and I can still overclock the 6800GT to Ultra speeds. The 2nd setup can be overclocked to the 1st setup speeds easily and the 2nd setup is more for upgrading within the next year right?

BTW, do I still need the NV Silencer for the leadtek with its massive heatsink? And with that heatsink can it be overclocked well? And is the copper version of the xp-90 better then the normal version?

 

[Stokes]

Nice call on Jab-tech, the xp-90 is only $24.99

 

[Ike0069]

Jab-tech is a great site, especially for small ites such as HS's and fans.

No need for the silencer with the Leadtek. And it should still OC to Ultra (or at least close because every card is different so there is no guarentee) without having to worry about temps.

Copper is a much better conductor than aluminum so therefore it's a better cooler. It pulls the heat away from the CPU with greater efficiency.
The drawback is price and more importantly wieght. Each MB will have a max allowable weight for the HSF (around 600g or less usually). The XP-90 Cu is 690g, then you have to add a fan. With a fan it will boe over 750g. That is too heavy for me. The Al XP-90 with fan is <450g.

 

[Stokes]

Ok, I think I got everything down now and gonna post the build I think is it, obviously open for discussion on parts.

Processor: Athlon 64 3200+ Venice
Motherboard: MSI Neo2 Platinum
Video Card: Leadtek 6800GT AGP
RAM: GEIL 1GB DDR500 RAM
PSU: SeaSonic S12-430 ATX12V 430W
HDD: SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series SP1614C 160GB
Monitor: HYUNDAI L90D+ Silver 19" 8ms LCD
DVD: NEC 3520A
Heatsink: Thermalright XP-90
Speakers: Logitech x-230
Mouse: Logitech MX-518

And for case I have the P160 ready to go. Any suggestions for a stylish fan controller that matches the case?

 

[Ike0069]

Inexpensive fan controller

More expensive, but with digital readout