Combined Modem and Router

[Herr Kutz]

Networking gurus,

Do you recommend purchasing a separate modem and router or do the combo units (e.g. Surfboard SBG6700AC) work well? I'm mainly looking for reliability without restarting the router all the time and would like to save space by combining the two if it's a good idea.


Thanks,

:thumbsup:

 

[frowertr]

They are fine. Been using Surfboards and Arris units for years.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

You'll get mixed responses anywhere you go. I don't like them at all. The router portion is often gimped, CPU is shared between modem and router and is often underpowered, and default configurations are frequently insecure. On top of that they have lots of security issues.

 

[Herr Kutz]

You'll get mixed responses anywhere you go. I don't like them at all. The router portion is often gimped, CPU is shared between modem and router and is often underpowered, and default configurations are frequently insecure. On top of that they have lots of security issues.

So you are recommending a normal surfboard and an apple extreme airport? That would run about $120-130 more.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

So you are recommending a normal surfboard and an apple extreme airport? That would run about $120-130 more.

Yes, I would generally recommend two units despite the cost, though there are less expensive routers than an Airport Extreme. For example, this is a solid bundle with greater modem and router speeds than the SBG6700AC, but for less than the Airport Extreme bundle. You will need to be sure the modem works with your ISP, though. This bundle is even cheaper with modem speeds the same as the SBG6700AC.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Some additional notes about combos (vs Netgear R6400 linked above):

• Rarely have as many wired ports as dedicated routers (SBG6700AC = 2 / Netgear R6400 = 4)
• Rarely have QoS support (SBG6700AC has none / Netgear R6400 yes)
• Rarely have VPN support (SBG6700AC has none / Netgear R6400 yes)
• Rarely have USB ports for NAS functionality and internet file sharing/FTP access or USB printers (SBG6700AC has none / Netgear R6400 yes)
• No third party firmware support for additional functionality (Netgear R6400 has unofficial DD-WRT support)

Firmware of modem/router combos can usually only be upgraded by your ISP. So if you have router issues that can be fixed with a firmware update, you have to hope your ISP will update it.

 

[MtnMan]

Modem and router in one? NO

 

[Elixer]

I also can't stand having a combo modem/router unit.
It it far too limiting in what you are able to do, and I like full control over my router.

The modem on the other hand, that is pretty much always controlled by the ISP, they can push whatever they want to it, even if you own it.

 

[Herr Kutz]

Would you guys recommend a ubiquiti or microtik router with a ubiquiti AC lite or an airport extreme? I'd lean more towards the upcoming, simpler amplifi, but it won't be out for 6-8 weeks.

 

[razel]

Want simple? Go OnHub. It's been on sale recently ranging anywhere from $60-$150. The main problem with cable modem/WiFi is that you'll want to locate that box somewhere open which meaning finding a place where you can run all those wires. Your problem with a cable modem is the coax which is no-where near flexible. Additionally if you have other services TV/phone and it is run through a cable splitter. The coax after the splitter should be the same length since cable modems are sensitive to balance.

The Onhub only has one LAN port for that reason. You want to put it out in the open and run a separate 5 or 8 port gigabit switch off that LAN. Onhub does have some major negatives that will madden your WiFi network admin, but it's slowly gotten better. A little too slow for some, but at least it's software is by Google and has regularly been getting monthly updates... just like Android with it's security updates.... no surprise there.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Would you guys recommend a ubiquiti or microtik router with a ubiquiti AC lite or an airport extreme?

The Ubiquiti EdgeRouters and UAPs are nice, but are a bit more advanced and more difficult to configure than your typical consumer router. If you want stable and reliable then you can't go wrong with them. I have no opinion on Microtik, but seems like a decent brand with similar learning curve to the Ubiquiti devices.

I'd lean more towards the upcoming, simpler amplifi, but it won't be out for 6-8 weeks.

I actually hadn't heard of the Amplifi before now, but it's definitely interesting and I would easily recommend it over the eero (I don't like eero's "verification code" security or price). The simplicity of the setup is really what sets the Amplifi apart from other Ubiquiti products, but the Amplifi HD ($349) is the only model that supports Wireless AC (1300Mbps). The other models only support up to 300Mbps for each band (2.4/5GHz) which is disappointing but not a deal breaker. One concern I have is location of the extenders which plug directly into a power outlet. The Ubiquiti UAPs can be ceiling mounted which is always a better location than behind a desk/table/chair/etc. I would still choose an EdgeRouter + UAP setup for myself, but for most people the Amplifi system would be a better choice.

 

[Herr Kutz]

Yes I had considered the onhub and eero but these guys only have 1 open lan port (I'm surprised the Apple device gives you more). I would like to run ethernet to my roku, my TV, and have at least 1 extra slot in case I set up my desktop or add a NAS. I guess I could add a switch like razel mentioned but at that point I would think I should just go with the ubiquiti access point and separate router since the hardware count would be the same.

What do you guys think of this router
http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Edge...&qid=1465128946&sr=8-7&keywords=ubiquiti+lite
vs this one
http://www.amazon.com/Mikrotik-RB75...ue&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_3&smid=A1GWA62N4HWKFW
?

I don't know if I'll be able to ceiling mount this since I'm in an apartment.

Edit: Internet speeds at the new apartment I'm moving to are 15/2 or 50/5 for the two lowest tiers. I haven't decided which I'll go with but I'm leaning towards 15/2.

 

[freeskier93]

Yes I had considered the onhub and eero but these guys only have 1 open lan port (I'm surprised the Apple device gives you more). I would like to run ethernet to my roku, my TV, and have at least 1 extra slot in case I set up my desktop or add a NAS. I guess I could add a switch like razel mentioned but at that point I would think I should just go with the ubiquiti access point and separate router since the hardware count would be the same.

What do you guys think of this router
http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Edge...&qid=1465128946&sr=8-7&keywords=ubiquiti+lite
vs this one
http://www.amazon.com/Mikrotik-RB75...ue&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_3&smid=A1GWA62N4HWKFW
?

I don't know if I'll be able to ceiling mount this since I'm in an apartment.

Edit: Internet speeds at the new apartment I'm moving to are 15/2 or 50/5 for the two lowest tiers. I haven't decided which I'll go with but I'm leaning towards 15/2.

I would go with Ubiquiti, only because that's what I have experience with. Plus, if you go with the Ubiquiti AP I'm not sure the Mikrotik PoE will be compatible.

I run a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite and UniFi AC Pro Lite and they are fantastic. Honestly both are stupid simple to set up for basic use. The EdgeRouter has had a basic setup wizard for a while now that works fine. The only thing I modify from the basic setup is DHCP to change the reduce the IP ranges and set up my static routes. I also set up a PPTP VPN. One thing to be aware of is the routers tend to ship with really old firmware that is missing a TON of functionality (like the setup wizard), so make sure whatever you get the first thing you do is go download the latest firmware to install.

The UniFi AP is also pretty simple to set up. You just have to install the controller software then go set the name and password and that's about it. Kind of wish I had gone with one of the UniFi routers ("security gateways" I think they call them) just so everything is in one place on the UniFi controller.

I started at the cheap 10/2 at my apartment but that didn't last long and I upgraded to 150 down.

 

[sdifox]

Two units. That way the cable modem can stay in the basement in the wiring closet and the wireless router is upstairs where it is more useful.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

What do you guys think of this router
http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-EdgeR...=ubiquiti+lite
vs this one
http://www.amazon.com/Mikrotik-RB750...A1GWA62N4HWKFW
?

The MicroTik router is only Fast Ethernet (5x10/100Mbps) capable while the Ubiquiti router is Gigabit (5x10/100/1000Mbps), though one Amazon review claims much lower than Gigabit speeds in testing. Spec-wise, the Ubiquiti is much more powerful:

EdgeRouter X:

• Processor: Dual-Core 880 MHz, MIPS1004Kc
• System Memory: 256 MB DDR3 RAM
• Code Storage: 256 MB NAND

MikroTik RB750UP:

• CPU nominal frequency: 400 MHz MIPSBE (AR7241-AH1A-R)
• CPU core count: 1
• Size of RAM: 32 MB

I don't know if I'll be able to ceiling mount this since I'm in an apartment.

It's not entirely necessary. Some people mount them on a wall, and others lay them on top of a table or bookcase. Depending on the desired coverage area, it may not make much of a difference either way.

 

[razel]

Two units. That way the cable modem can stay in the basement in the wiring closet and the wireless router is upstairs where it is more useful.

Good reminder about putting the wireless router higher. You will generally get better signal below as opposed to above the router. Yes the lawyers out there will disclaim that all depends on the antenna design but in general, treat the WiFi like a light bulb that can penetrate walls and that makes visualizing ballpark ideal placement easier.

 

[Herr Kutz]

I went ahead and ordered the ubiquiti router and the AC lite access point. Everything should be here within a week along with my plunger and toilet bowl cleaner.

 

[Herr Kutz]

When the router and access point came in it took me a while to figure out how to get the darn things to work. I didn't have internet at the time so I could not really make sure it worked as intended. Anyway, Cox stopped by yesterday and set up my interwebs and plugging my laptop directly into the modem (SB6141) I get around 16.something/2.something pretty consistently according to Speedtest. I think this is pretty decent since I'm paying for 15/2. Since it has been a few weeks since playing around with the ubiquiti AC Lite and edgerouter-X without internet I had forgotten some of the steps required to get the equipment set up properly so it wound up taking me something like 3-4 hours to get it set up again. The most important thing I learned was to clear cookies every time you make a setting change that reboots the router or move cables around since I could not log into the control panel without doing so. Another thing I found out is that many of the tutorials and instructional videos made by hobbyists leave out important information required to set up the devices. My guess is that they are assuming only network professionals are using this equipment.

Running speed tests on my laptop about 20 feet away and through a wall (Dell e5450 with Intel(R) Dual Band Wireless-AC 7265) consistently result in about the same speeds as hard wired using the default settings on the router and access point.

 

[razel]

One thing I always forget when connecting to cable modems. Anytime you plug a different device directly to a cable modem with one LAN port, nearly all of them attach themselves to one MAC address when powering up, meaning you must plug/unplug anytime you plug a different device to it.

I keep forgetting that all the time since I spent the previous 13 years bridged with DSL modems and those don't care.

 

[fiberst]

a combined router/modem unit makes sense and does make things simpler.On a combined unit, you can disable the router functionality. This will cause the modem to simply pass the connection through to the next device in line. Connect a separate router to your modem with an Ethernet cable via its LAN port and the router will get a public IP address from the modem, sending traffic back and forth and functioning as a standard router.