Comcast throttling Bittorrent traffic

[ultimatebob]

I really hope that Google buys up a big chunk of that 700 MHz spectrum and builds a nationwide wireless broadband network with it! The cable and phone companies in the US have been abusing their home broadband oligopoly for far too long, and we need some serious competition to bring down prices and improve broadband speeds.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: DrPizza
1. "McDonalds shouldn't put ketchup out where the customers can get it if they want to limit how much we can use. It isn't my fault that Joe paid the same amount for his french fries as I did, but he only uses a little ketchup. If they're going to put the ketchup out, it's my right to use a gallon of it on my french fries. I don't see how that's abusing the system. It's McDonald's fault for putting it out. I do what I want. Me me me me me me me."

2. You know what? If the ISP's would simply catch the people illegally downloading content, and boot them off once and for all, they would be able to offer much greater speeds for the rest of us. Boot off those 5% of users, raise prices 5% to compensate and offer even faster service to the rest of us. That would be wonderful. Heck, they wouldn't even need to raise rates 5% - the lower bandwidth useage would save some bucks too!

Analogies don't hold water on a business model that has been tried and true tested. There is no better mouse trap (well there may be, but as of 8/17/07 it doesn't exist). This is business and if one can build a better model, then so be it. That practice will prevail. Legality of content has no bearing, the price of resources is all that matters. Capital expenditure (one time) vs. operational expense (all the time). Supply/demand. If a provider can offer a better service for the majority of their customers they will do so. If a few whiners don't like it....they can go elsewhere for their services. Supply/demand. Free market. Live it, Love it.

At least as far as the most competitive market known, communications, is concerned.

I can't tell if you agree or disagree with me regarding whether or not it's fine for the ISP's to throttle these people back. (I have no qualms about throttling them back at all.)

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I can't tell if you agree or disagree with me regarding whether or not it's fine for the ISP's to throttle these people back. (I have no qualms about throttling them back at all.)

It's fine to throttle abusers of a dirt cheap service with limited resources to keep prices low for everybody as specified in the terms.

It's not fine the throttle users of a premium service and says so via contract and priced accordingly.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

This is like taxing the top 10% of the people who make 90% of the money in America and so they end up paying 90% of taxes of this nation.

Anyways... I don't download that much but I hope this doesn't piss me off.

 

[Indolent]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: Indolent



what you don't seem to understand is that if the isp did upgrade their network so everyone could get their 8mbps all the time, you'd be paying 10 times what you're paying now...

At your current price, would you rather be able to get 8mbps some of the time, or be throttled to .5mbps so they have enough bandwidth for everyone to get their .5mbps all the time?

I'm not defending the cable companies here. I hate them as much as the next guy. I'm just saying this is a baseless argument.

If they advertise 8 and deliver 1, then my bill should be prorated.

you didn't answer my question.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: Indolent

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Originally posted by: Indolent



what you don't seem to understand is that if the isp did upgrade their network so everyone could get their 8mbps all the time, you'd be paying 10 times what you're paying now...

At your current price, would you rather be able to get 8mbps some of the time, or be throttled to .5mbps so they have enough bandwidth for everyone to get their .5mbps all the time?

I'm not defending the cable companies here. I hate them as much as the next guy. I'm just saying this is a baseless argument.

If they advertise 8 and deliver 1, then my bill should be prorated.

you didn't answer my question.

I want 8mb all of the time, or a lower rate. I'm paying $99/mo, some of that could be put into new infrastructure to give me my money's worth.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: GuideBot

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: eos

Originally posted by: spidey07
:thumbsup:

Smart move. They are eliminating the small percentage of people that use 90% of the networks capacity. This will enable better service to all customers.

Very smart.

Proof of the bolded comment?

I'm not allowed to release information. But in general on broadband residential services 5% of the users use 90% of the capacity and it's almost always P2P.

So? They're paying for a level of service, why can't they use it.

That's like charging someone for the use of a water hose, saying that the hose is 1" in diameter and always turned on --and then cutting them off for leaving the hose on all the time. Who cares if they use it or not? Why penalize someone for using the level of service that you've offered them in the first place?

Maybe because the other, larger percentage should also be allowed to use 90 % of that capacity also? They are paying customers also, are they not?

Then the ISP should FIX THEIR GOD DAMNED NETOWRKS.

Stop punishing the people who actually USE the service they're offered. "Unlimited internet" amirite?

Fuck, this is stupid.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Then the ISP should FIX THEIR GOD DAMNED NETOWRKS.

Stop punishing the people who actually USE the service they're offered. "Unlimited internet" amirite?

Fuck, this is stupid.

Sounds great.

Your service is now 850 dollars per month.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: manowar821
Then the ISP should FIX THEIR GOD DAMNED NETOWRKS.

Stop punishing the people who actually USE the service they're offered. "Unlimited internet" amirite?

Fuck, this is stupid.

Sounds great.

Your service is now 850 dollars per month.

It's a hopeless argument spidey. Until these guys have been the ones negotiating contracts and approving the invoices for true dedicated bandwith, they'll never understand.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: bigdog1218
I can't believe nerds bitch and moan because someone is limiting the amount of illegal downloads they can make.

I don't know what's funnier: this post, or the flames it derived from the people who don't get it.


Look, I'm dl'ing torrents on Comcast as I type this (gray-area ones, not actual piracy, I'm finally getting around to getting WRC Finland [read: European TV sports not broadcast in the US]). But still I recognize the need of networks to limit abuse from a small minority of its users. Seriously, if you're gonna dl at full speed 24/7, then you should pay more. Just like people who consume more electricity have to pay more for their usage. Would you argue that the person who conserves electricity should have to pay for the person who leaves his lights on 24/7?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: GuideBot
That's the problem, spidey07. Nobody's abusing anything.

I am just quoting you, but not "calling you out" rather your argument.
If you can honestly tell me that ALL P2P traffic is legit, then I think there is a strong leg to stand on. I have used P2P in the past, I know what the majority of users are using it for.
My argument as an end user is this:
If you want to download that distro/freeware/etc feel free. That will NOT take up the majority of the capacity used. I pay for a service also, and would like to download a new map for Wolf:ET. I shouldn't have to fight for 'net usage beyond Comcast with people who could be using P2P for nefarious reasons.

Again you don't saturate a link with legal usage.

I think someone misunderstood what GuideBot said? He's saying that no one's abusing anything by using all the bandwidth the company advertises as often as possible. I'm sure he isn't saying that all p2p is legit, it is not all legit.

Like all consumer ISP's, Comcast clearly advertises burst speeds, not sustained. Can't help you if you can't read the fine print.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
Imagine if you bought a car with a 5 year warranty. You drove the car 50,000 miles a year and at year 3 you take your car in for a checkup at the dealer. The dealer says your warranty is void because you drove your car "too much." The car manufacturer assumes people will drive an average of 12,000 miles per year and most will not need their full warranty. You, on the other hand, drive much more than the average driver and would cost the manufacturer more money in warranty repairs.

So the question is: should the business punish customers who take full advantage of the services offered or should the business make accommodations to support the growing demand of their customer base?

Uhh... car warranties always include mileage restrictions as well as time restrictions. What planet are you from?

And the flip side is: should businesses punish consumers who don't take full advantage of the services offered by forcing them to absorb the costs incurred from those consumers who do take full advantage?

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: bigdog1218
I can't believe nerds bitch and moan because someone is limiting the amount of illegal downloads they can make.

I don't know what's funnier: this post, or the flames it derived from the people who don't get it.


Look, I'm dl'ing torrents on Comcast as I type this (gray-area ones, not actual piracy, I'm finally getting around to getting WRC Finland [read: European TV sports not broadcast in the US]). But still I recognize the need of networks to limit abuse from a small minority of its users. Seriously, if you're gonna dl at full speed 24/7, then you should pay more. Just like people who consume more electricity have to pay more for their usage. Would you argue that the person who conserves electricity should have to pay for the person who leaves his lights on 24/7?

It would be interesting if broadband companies went the way of "pay for use" like cell phone providers. You get XXX gigs of bandwith a month for $XX.XX. Between the hours of 12:00AM and 6:00AM the meters are turned off and your limits aren't counted. Otherwise, every gig you use past your totals gets charged extra.

Edit: Ideally everyone would simply pay for what they need. Problem is that you have a huge percentage of people that use very little bandwith that subsidize the network costs for those that are heavy users. If you start taking away $50 a month subscribers and replacing them with $10 a month subscriptions, you are loosing a ton of revenue.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: manowar821
Then the ISP should FIX THEIR GOD DAMNED NETOWRKS.

Stop punishing the people who actually USE the service they're offered. "Unlimited internet" amirite?

Fuck, this is stupid.

Sounds great.

Your service is now 850 dollars per month.

Keeps going up anyway.

You're moaning and groaning will be moot anyway since only you and your fellow rich buds will be able to afford the Internets.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: manowar821
Then the ISP should FIX THEIR GOD DAMNED NETOWRKS.

Stop punishing the people who actually USE the service they're offered. "Unlimited internet" amirite?

Fuck, this is stupid.

Sounds great.

Your service is now 850 dollars per month.

Keeps going up anyway.

You're moaning and groaning will be moot anyway since only you and your fellow rich buds will be able to afford the Internets.

When DSL first hit it was over $50 a month for 256k-768k connections. Right now I can get it for $14 a month through AT&T. My rates are going down. Not up.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: manowar821
Then the ISP should FIX THEIR GOD DAMNED NETOWRKS.

Stop punishing the people who actually USE the service they're offered. "Unlimited internet" amirite?

Fuck, this is stupid.

Sounds great.

Your service is now 850 dollars per month.

Keeps going up anyway.

You're moaning and groaning will be moot anyway since only you and your fellow rich buds will be able to afford the Internets.

LOL! This is like going back 100 years ago and saying that only the rich will ever be able to afford cars! Or that only the rich will ever be able to have electricity in their homes!

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: manowar821
Then the ISP should FIX THEIR GOD DAMNED NETOWRKS.

Stop punishing the people who actually USE the service they're offered. "Unlimited internet" amirite?

Fuck, this is stupid.

Sounds great.

Your service is now 850 dollars per month.

Keeps going up anyway.

You're moaning and groaning will be moot anyway since only you and your fellow rich buds will be able to afford the Internets.

LOL! This is like going back 100 years ago and saying that only the rich will ever be able to afford cars! Or that only the rich will ever be able to have electricity in their homes!

Or computers.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: manowar821
Then the ISP should FIX THEIR GOD DAMNED NETOWRKS.

Stop punishing the people who actually USE the service they're offered. "Unlimited internet" amirite?

Fuck, this is stupid.

Sounds great.

Your service is now 850 dollars per month.

Keeps going up anyway.

You're moaning and groaning will be moot anyway since only you and your fellow rich buds will be able to afford the Internets.

When DSL first hit it was over $50 a month for 256k-768k connections. Right now I can get it for $14 a month through AT&T. My rates are going down. Not up.

Yep. My first DSL connection, in ~99, was 256/256, cost more than $70/mo. with taxes and surcharges, was strictly limited to a single computer (connection was straight from the phone jack to a PCI card modem, the service with an external modem and router cost over $100/mo.), would automatically disconnect after a few minutes of inactivity, and was horrifically unreliable. This was just 8 years ago from US West (now Qwest).

Clearly, the price just keeps going up and up and up :roll:

 

[freegeeks]

1)you're paying for a best effort service not a guaranteed
2)most people that are moaning here have no f*cking clue how a big network is designed, oversubscribing is normal and is also how the old circuit-switched networks work
3)If you want 8Mb sustained, you can get it, just be prepared to pay for it

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: manowar821
Then the ISP should FIX THEIR GOD DAMNED NETOWRKS.

Stop punishing the people who actually USE the service they're offered. "Unlimited internet" amirite?

Fuck, this is stupid.

Sounds great.

Your service is now 850 dollars per month.

Keeps going up anyway.

You're moaning and groaning will be moot anyway since only you and your fellow rich buds will be able to afford the Internets.

When DSL first hit it was over $50 a month for 256k-768k connections. Right now I can get it for $14 a month through AT&T. My rates are going down. Not up.

Yep. My first DSL connection, in ~99, was 256/256, cost more than $70/mo. with taxes and surcharges, was strictly limited to a single computer (connection was straight from the phone jack to a PCI card modem, the service with an external modem and router cost over $100/mo.), would automatically disconnect after a few minutes of inactivity, and was horrifically unreliable. This was just 8 years ago from US West (now Qwest).

Clearly, the price just keeps going up and up and up :roll:

One bitch that I do have is that Cable companies really haven't adopted the same pricing scheme. Instead of lowering prices they just keep bumping the connection speeds up. I mean it's nice, but I really don't care about my connection going from 3mb to 5mb. It's a nice gesture, but I'd rather see my rates go from $50 a month to $30 a month if I choose not to take the bump in speed.

But that just goes against what I said earlier about the limited users subsidizing the costs for the heavy users.

At least with DSL you have actual pricing tiers.

 

[0roo0roo]

its just sad, its not as if they don't have other solutions..you know like catching up to other countries with broadband that makes ours looks like dialup. this is just greed.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: manowar821
Then the ISP should FIX THEIR GOD DAMNED NETOWRKS.

Stop punishing the people who actually USE the service they're offered. "Unlimited internet" amirite?

Fuck, this is stupid.

Sounds great.

Your service is now 850 dollars per month.

Keeps going up anyway.

You're moaning and groaning will be moot anyway since only you and your fellow rich buds will be able to afford the Internets.

When DSL first hit it was over $50 a month for 256k-768k connections. Right now I can get it for $14 a month through AT&T. My rates are going down. Not up.

Yep. My first DSL connection, in ~99, was 256/256, cost more than $70/mo. with taxes and surcharges, was strictly limited to a single computer (connection was straight from the phone jack to a PCI card modem, the service with an external modem and router cost over $100/mo.), would automatically disconnect after a few minutes of inactivity, and was horrifically unreliable. This was just 8 years ago from US West (now Qwest).

Clearly, the price just keeps going up and up and up :roll:

One bitch that I do have is that Cable companies really haven't adopted the same pricing scheme. Instead of lowering prices they just keep bumping the connection speeds up. I mean it's nice, but I really don't care about my connection going from 3mb to 5mb. It's a nice gesture, but I'd rather see my rates go from $50 a month to $30 a month if I choose not to take the bump in speed.

But that just goes against what I said earlier about the limited users subsidizing the costs for the heavy users.

At least with DSL you have actual pricing tiers.

Well, generally speaking, the cable companies are just catering to the needs of the bitchers in this thread. But even they have to draw a line somewhere, and for years they've done that through slower upload speeds.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
its just sad, its not as if they don't have other solutions..you know like catching up to other countries with broadband that makes ours looks like dialup. this is just greed.

Name the other solutions.

Specifically name the design, pricing, detailed capital and operational costs as well.

Don't just parrot speak "but look at other countries, us is just evil corporationy"

 

[brtspears2]

If you guys are complaining about your poor service from your "home" internet connection, upgrade to a business level service, like getting a T1 ran into your home. A few hundred bucks a month and you can download all you want with the quality of service you expect from a business class line.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
its just sad, its not as if they don't have other solutions..you know like catching up to other countries with broadband that makes ours looks like dialup. this is just greed.

Name the other solutions.

Specifically name the design, pricing, detailed capital and operational costs as well.

Don't just parrot speak "but look at other countries, us is just evil corporationy"

lets just say the other countries are proof of concept. we aren't talking about demanding flying cars or quantum computing NOW type stuff. this exists, and why americans suffer with less is a bit strange don't you think? density arguements tend not to wash either so don't try that