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Ryan Norton

Member
Dec 8, 2005
170
0
0
Everyone here is posting "Well it could be the PSU" .. PULEEEZE !!!...

I agree completely, dude. 7800GTX draws more power than 7900GTX, so a PSU that ran a single 7800GTX perfectly needs must work fine with a single 7900GTX.. especially with 32A split in half between two +12V rails!

I've never seen anything tax a GPU faster than rthdribl: http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/
 

Navid

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2004
5,053
0
0
MaxisOne, the next time you play UT2004, instead of exiting the game, press alt tab to get to the desktop without quitting the game.
Then, right click on the game icon on the taskbar and click on "Close".

See if you can do that to end a game without having to restart the computer.

Even if this works, there is obviously a problem. But, you can do this temporarily until a fix is found.

I agree with you that there seems to be a problem. Please give this a try and tell us what happens.
 

Nelsieus

Senior member
Mar 11, 2006
330
0
0
"IF a person have RMAd their card for 4 time, isnt it logical that the problems lies not on the card, but just maybe on your other components, e.g PSU?

Another is the drivers your using? did you get rid of your previous drivers with driver cleaner? are you using a beta driver?

Secondly, the X1900XTX do also have problems. ALL cards have problems. No hardware is bug free."

Agreed
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,478
524
126
Then you are not looking. I see posts everywhere. Its not some agenda versus NV, dont be so misinformed and think like that.
 

Nelsieus

Senior member
Mar 11, 2006
330
0
0
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Then you are not looking. I see posts everywhere. Its not some agenda versus NV, dont be so misinformed and think like that.
I don't, I just highly doubt this is as widespread as you want people to think. Everyone I know with a 7900 card say they have no problems. And granted your rep. on this board, I'll tend to believe them over you.

 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,478
524
126
My rep? You mean the rep for not letting others spread fud and misinformation? Thanks.

Im not the one claiming there is problems, all I did was link to a poll where about 20% out of about 100 people have had a card die on them. I visit other forums as well, and there are posts with the same topic all over.

Nice edit on your post though, wish I had quoted you now. You said that you only saw these posts on AT, and Hard, and tried to connect the two claiming there was an agenda. Good edit though, that was a pretty stupid thing to say.
 

Nelsieus

Senior member
Mar 11, 2006
330
0
0
If there was an issue, Anandtech would have commented on it by now. You're obviously trying to make something out of nothing, and I'm not sure what gradification you get from it. Or perhaps I'm not aware of the payoffs for being a fanATIc.

Again, this is the first time I've seen any mention of this. Good try, but I won't be swayed by your FUD.
 

Fallengod

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2001
5,908
19
81
Yeah this is the reason I recently bought a 7800gtx and not a 7900 heh. Ive seen alot of issues. From what I understand, the 7900 cards need a very good power supply. So people with the absolute minimum or low quality supplies are the people who have had to RMA 4 times. So I think that part of the problem.

 

MaxisOne

Senior member
May 14, 2004
725
6
81
Nelsieus..

Thats the reason for this post Im asking for them to test and comment ... How do you know if they tested the card for stability or not ?. Again .. if your card works for you great. but that doesnt give you lattitude to come here and belittle those who have legit probs with this card.

And if your wondering ... Yes myself and a whole bunch of people have run driver cleaner and the like and reinstalled Direct x and the drivers and all other typical troubleshooting things. I wouldnt have come on here asking for some sort of comprehensive testing by Anandtech about the issue if i found the problem to be my own rig.
 

Nelsieus

Senior member
Mar 11, 2006
330
0
0
Originally posted by: MaxisOne
Nelsieus..

Thats the reason for this post Im asking for them to test and comment ... How do you know if they tested the card for stability or not ?. Again .. if your card works for you great. but that doesnt give you lattitude to come here and belittle those who have legit probs with this card.

And if your wondering ... Yes myself and a whole bunch of people have run driver cleaner and the like and reinstalled Direct x and the drivers and all other typical troubleshooting things. I wouldnt have come on here asking for some sort of comprehensive testing by Anandtech about the issue if i found the problem to be my own rig.
Please forgive me, as that was not my intent. I agree with you in this thread to find out why you are experiencing problems with the card, and I hope you can find a resolution.

I've come to this thread, though, to deal with trolls like Ackmed, who don't even have the card to know if it's a problem, and just want to throw FUD around to try to bash the company he dislikes so strongly. Hopefully he'll grow up and stop so we can get to the real issue of the problem you are experiencing.
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
If there was an issue, Anandtech would have commented on it by now.

Based on what..? From looking at their video articles, it looks like they've only benched the review sample they received at the card's launch. Furthermore, people on forums can discuss and place blame on companies without having actual hard numbers and figures to back them up, whereas if AT were to publish an editorial saying NV cards had a problem they would propbably face legal action if they didn't have test results and any empirical data to back the statement up. This is the kind of potential issue that would have to be exposed from a more grassroots level such as forums at first... I don't think you can make a claim that AT would necessarily have reported this already if it were true. That being said, It's tough to say if there is a actually an issue with the gpu, specific cards, or either. It's possible that we're seeing more people complain about the 7900s simply because they have sold like crazy.

My personal experiences with the G71 have been mixed, so I really can't say if I think there is an issue inherent to the gpu or not. I had two 7900GTXs with absolutely no problems, but later on I had two 7900GT SC CO's that had issues with every game I tried. All four cards were eVGA...

For the record, I also had a defective X1900XTX as well, so all is not perfect on the other side of the fence either.
 

nullpointerus

Golden Member
Apr 17, 2003
1,326
0
0
Originally posted by: Nelsieus
Again, this is the first time I've seen any mention of this. Good try, but I won't be swayed by your FUD.

Um...hello?! The problem exists, and it's not too uncommon that it should be excluded as a possibility. I've seen people on other forums besides those mentioned in this thread.

I own a 7900GT OC - installed on May 16th - and prefer nVidia cards where possible. My video card purchases for the household computers from most recent to least recent:

nVidia GeForce 7900GT KO
nVidia GeForce 6800GS CO
nVidia GeForce 6800GS
ATI Radeon 9250SE
ATI Radeon 9200SE
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
nVidia GeForce 4 Ti 4200
nVidia GeForce 3 Ti 500
ATI Rage Fury
nVidia Riva TNT
(memory fails at this point)

My last three nVidia purchases have been eVGA, and I haven't had a problem with them so far; in fact, I recommend the company whenever I can because I like their warranty. I'm only paying attention to these threads so that I can recognize the problem and RMA the card if needed.

Adjust your FUD detection rules a bit, please.:thumbsdown:
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
3,918
0
71
Originally posted by: Nelsieus
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Then you are not looking. I see posts everywhere. Its not some agenda versus NV, dont be so misinformed and think like that.
I don't, I just highly doubt this is as widespread as you want people to think. Everyone I know with a 7900 card say they have no problems. And granted your rep. on this board, I'll tend to believe them over you.

Post AEG, I would agree. Is difficult to know what to believe. For example do I believe a guy with 16 posts who claims to know lots of people with a 7900 series card and all about Ackmed and his reputation? If this situation is fud, the ati fanboys have been very organized on several boards. If not, leaves the question - why are these companies having so much trouble making vid cards?
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,478
524
126
Originally posted by: Nelsieus
If there was an issue, Anandtech would have commented on it by now. You're obviously trying to make something out of nothing, and I'm not sure what gradification you get from it. Or perhaps I'm not aware of the payoffs for being a fanATIc.

Again, this is the first time I've seen any mention of this. Good try, but I won't be swayed by your FUD.

Um, I didnt make this topic, or any other topic about this issue. All I did was show a link to a poll with 20% of the people with cards that "died". I didnt try to sway anyone for anything, like you did. You on the other hand tried to make it out to be some kind of agenda from AT and HarcOCP users. As anyone can see, I am not trying to spread FUD. All I did, was drop the link to a poll about the issue. If you think its FUD, then go tell the 20 or so people in that poll that they are lying.

Obviously any kind of card has cards that die out. The 7900 series seems to be above average with this problem.

Originally posted by: Nelsieus
I've come to this thread, though, to deal with trolls like Ackmed, who don't even have the card to know if it's a problem, and just want to throw FUD around to try to bash the company he dislikes so strongly. Hopefully he'll grow up and stop so we can get to the real issue of the problem you are experiencing.

Troll? No, that would be you. In case you didnt read, I didnt make the topic, or any topic like it. All I did was post a link, from a poll with many people who have had 7900's die. I didnt say it was a huge problem, and epidemic, or anything of the kind. Are you some re-reg who got banned? Seems like it. You do not know me, dont act like you do. Continue with the trolling, and ignorant posts, and you'll be ignored. Simple as that. You are not worth the time.
 

imported_sjm

Junior Member
May 21, 2006
8
0
0
Hey folks,

I've been an AT reader for years, but I decided to create an account to respond to this alleged issue. On 5/7 I purchased an EVGA 7900GT KO P/N 256-P2-N564-AX (see http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130015 ) and just a few days later I received it. After about 2 days of intensive gaming, I began observing the following symptoms:

1. Graphical artifacting/defects/tearing
2. 3D Applications/games hanging
3. Windows BSOD
4. Monitor flickering (intermittant signal loss) when exiting a 3D app/game

I promptly contacted EVGA for a cross-shipped RMA. A few days later, I get a brand new retail-boxed card. It worked absolutely fine for 2 days--just like the first card--but then began exhibiting the same symptoms. At this point, I began to wonder if I was just really unlucky, or there was a more widespread problem (i.e. a design flaw affecting some, but not all 7-series video cards). A quick Google search found many results of people experiencing the same problems. Apparently some vendors have closed their message boards because of the deluge of complaints about these cards. It is important to note that the symptoms are the same in almost every case, as is the fact that these cards work perfectly for a matter of hours or days before they begin to fail. You only have to take a glance at EVGA's forums to realize the extent of these issues (see http://www.evga.com/community/messageboard/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=32 ).

Of course, EVGA as well as other vendors have been quiet on the issue. In my case, when I called in to report my RMA replacement was exhibiting the same symptoms as the first, the CSR (customer service representative) immediately blamed my computer. The CSR stated that the 7-series are power-hungry cards and require a minimum of 22A on a *single* +12V rail. Nvidia's own "recommendation" is 22A, but it does not say whether this is combined or not... I would assume so. I told the EVGA CSR that my power supply is no cheapie, a Seasonic S12 500 Rev. A2 (cream of the crop according to SPCR, see http://www.silentpcreview.com/article247-page1.html ) which is Nvidia SLI certified. The CSR claimed that SLI Certification is purely marketing, and further claimed that every RMAed card they received was just "fine" and that the problem lay entirely with the customer's equipment. Of course, I told the CSR that he was completely wrong, but I wanted to be sure (as I reasonably could be).

I decided to run some tests to see if the 7900GT was really as power hungry as EVGA claimed. Test equipment included a calibrated DMM (digital multi meter) and a P3 International Kill-A-Watt meter. Current measurements (in watts) are PEAK figures, i.e. worst-case scenario. During testing the +12V line was continuously monitored and the power supply's exhaust heat and fan speed observed.

My computer:
===============================================
AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 1.25V (TDP = 53W @ 1.35V)
1GB (2x512MB) OCZ Platinum Rev. 2 PC3200
Epox 9NPA+ Nforce4 Ultra
NEC ND-3540A DVD-RW
200GB Samsung P120 SATA3.0 HDD
Seasonic S12 500 Rev. A2 (+12V1 17A, +12V2 16A)

Test results:
===============================================
IDLE - 101W AC, 12.09V
RTHDRIBL - 155W, 12.09V
FEAR - 152W, 12.10V
FEAR TEST - 155W, 12.10V
3DMARK06 HDR1 Canyon Flight - 159W, 12.10V
3DMARK06 HDR2 Deep Freeze - 165W, 12.10V

So the maximum that this computer will pull when running a 3D application is 165W AC. At this load, the PSU was exhibiting no increase in fan speed and only luke-warm air was coming out of the exhaust. Measured +12V rail at 12.10 volts is well within ATX spec (less than 1% deviation, spec is +/- 5%) and hardly changed at all between idle and load conditions (+/- 0.01V).

If we assume the PSU is at least 80% efficient (and this is a conservative estimate according to Silent PC Review, see http://www.silentpcreview.com/article247-page4.html ), then thats 165*0.8 = 132W DC. Just for the sake of argument, let's say all 132W DC is coming off a single 12V rail, that's only 132/12 = 11A! Not even close to the 22A that the CSR claimed I needed on a *single* rail! According to Xbit Labs (source: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/evga-7900gt_4.html ), an EVGA 7900GT CO SC draws a maximum of ~57W DC, or just 4.5A... which would agree with my findings.

My suggestion to anyone else who is hearing, "your power supply isn't good enough? then here's your proof that you?re being misinformed (at best) or deceived (at worst). EVGA needs to better educate their CSRs that you don't need 22A for a single 7900GT if my whole computer draws a maximum of 11A. I'd say that 22A for an entire medium-range computer would be safe (see http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page4.html ), but not necessarily required. Even a decent 300W power supply can provide 22A (see http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104907 ).

I'm still considering my options. Whether to keep trying to RMA in the hopes I'll get a working card, or to just send the original back to Newegg for a refund. It's too bad, because the 7900GT is a good card... when it works.

In any case, if some high-profile website like AT brings light to this issue, we'd likely see a much quicker resolution to these widespread problems. It?s likely reviewers didn?t see these issues because either they were lucky enough to get a good card, or they just didn?t spend enough time with the card (this seems more likely).
 

mikek753

Senior member
Dec 21, 2005
358
0
0
wow ...
now I'm scary to go with any 7900GT
can some one say that NV and card makers have fixed the issue already for the fact?
 

videopho

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2005
4,185
29
91
I now am as more nervous than ever...I'm getting a 7900GTX step-up as soon as this coming work week. I also hang around Dell forum site and I've heard the same issue with new batch of 7900gt & gtx overthere as well. It to me sounds like this is more of an evGA issue than Nvidia's gpu one since other mfg's are not heard much complaints in regards to this.
 

SilentRunning

Golden Member
Aug 8, 2001
1,493
0
76
Originally posted by: beggerking
Originally posted by: SilentRunning
[, well, Rollo has already set a standard which is hard to surpass)

Joker has already surpassed Rollo in that department..

Joker is bad, but Rollo was in a whole other league. Rollo actually thought people believed what they had to say, that is just plain delusional.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Is there anything to indicate that this is not a vendor specific problem? (eVGA) and not the GPU's themselves? I recall something happening with eVGA 7800GT's where the BIOS on the cards was buggy and caused some problems. A very large amount of these cards exhibited the problem and was (I believe) fixed with a BIOS update from them. I had a 7800GTX from eVGA without any issues.
 

nullpointerus

Golden Member
Apr 17, 2003
1,326
0
0
Originally posted by: sjm
The CSR claimed that SLI Certification is purely marketing, and further claimed that every RMAed card they received was just "fine" and that the problem lay entirely with the customer's equipment.

Well, no wonder people are getting bad replacements!

I wonder if the cards exhibit the same symptoms in the eVGA testers' equipment - several hours or days of good behavior before a rapid decline. If they're simply not testing the cards long enough, these issues may take a long time to resolve.
 

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
12,685
1,606
126
Originally posted by: josh6079
Originally posted by: SilentRunning
Originally posted by: ronnn
Just was reading a couple of threads on Hocp about this. Still trying to figure out if nv has a problem or if this is a novel form of viral marketing? If true, all those rma's must be hard on the bottom line.

Novel how?

do you mean:

a. Nvidia is engaged in viral marketing flaws in their own cards to decrease sales and therefore increase apparent supplies.

or

b. ATI is engaged in viral marketing flaws in Nvidia's cards. (Of course this wouldn't be "novel" because, well, Rollo has already set a standard which is hard to surpass)




Personally I think most hardware problems are user related. People ignore static, have flakey or underpowered power supplies, run buses out of spec, have improper cooling, don't condition the power coming into their computer, ...

While I agree with you, I also see ronnn's view in that too many people are complaining about them, the same people who don't have problems with other cards. I mean, some people just exchange the vc's in their systems and not anything else, so already your getting complaints when just exchaning one variable. Either your right, and there are a lot of people who slap systems together without taking some things into enough consideration, or there is actually a problem with some of the cards, or there is viral marketing.

I remember a lot of people who went from the 7800GT to the 7900GT still had problems, especially with artifacting at stock and stuff. Those two cards weren't much different and people still had some problems. I believe their might have been a bad batch or something. Maybe an improper bios for the initial release or something.

Yeah and the 7800GT uses more power if I'm not mistaken, so if the 7800GT was stable then the 7900GT should be fine too in the same system.

 

imported_sjm

Junior Member
May 21, 2006
8
0
0
FYI, I've decided to pass on this 7-series debacle. I'm returning my RMA card to EVGA and the original to Newegg for a refund. I guess I'll have to hold out a little while longer with my lowly X800XL :\
 
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