Coming soon to Europe: choose your default browser in 7, Vista, and XP

[blackangst1]

Well it looks like many people in Europe will get what they asked for: the option to choose their own default browser. I personally prefer IE8 over FF, Opera, and Safari, but I know many have other preferences.

Story from softpedia.

Windows 8, Windows 7, Vista and XP to Get Choice Screen for the Default Browser

For the next five years, Microsoft will be serving an update to all supported Windows clients in an attempt to promote end user choice when it comes down to the default browser associated with the operating system.

The European Antitrust Commission accepted a solution proposed by Microsoft, designed to boost competition on the web browser market on December 16th 2009, noting that the decision it adopted renders legally binding commitments offered by the software giant. The Redmond company will offer a Choice Screen to Windows users in Europe via Windows Update, allowing them to choose Internet Explorer, or a rival product, as the default browser of their platform.

"Millions of European consumers will benefit from this decision by having a free choice about which web browser they use. Such choice will not only serve to improve people's experience of the internet now but also act as an incentive for web browser companies to innovate and offer people better browsers in the future," Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes says.

The decision forces Microsoft to offer the Choice Screen update for the next five years, the European Union regulators underlined, and will impact all users in the European Economic Area. For the time being, the updates served through WU will be offered to EEA customers running Windows 7 RTM, Windows Vista (including SP2) and Windows XP (including SP3). However, due to the consistent time span, the Choice Screen is also bound to be made available through the Windows Update mechanisms to users of the next version of Windows, namely Windows 8, expected to be launched no later than three years after Windows 7, sometime in the 2011-2012 timeframe.

“The Web browser measures cover the inclusion of Internet Explorer in Windows for users in Europe—specifically the region known as the European Economic Area, which includes 30 nations. Under today’s resolution, Microsoft commits that PC manufacturers and users will continue to be able to install any browser on top of Windows, to make any browser the default browser on new PCs, and to turn access to Internet Explorer on or off. In addition, Microsoft will send a “browser choice” screen to Windows users who are running Internet Explorer as their default browser. This browser choice screen will present a list of browsers, making it easy for users to install any one of them. It will be provided both to users of new computers and to the installed base of Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Windows 7 computers in Europe where Internet Explorer is set as the default browser,” revealed Brad Smith, senior vice president and general counsel, Microsoft.

Via the Choice Screen, EEA customers will have the ability to select one or multiple items from a list of up to a dozen web browsers, including Internet Explorer, but also Firefox, Safari, Google Chrome, and Opera. In addition, original equipment manufacturers will have a choice of whether to turn IE on or off, and install another default browser instead, with Microsoft getting no say in this. Windows 7 already allows users to switch IE8 off and on, and it’s bound that Windows 8 will feature similar functionality.

 

[JackMDS]

This is all a BS of Political/economical Power Play between the USA. and the EU.

What does it matter if IE8 comes with the OS, or not. It does not prevent you to install any of the other Browsers and takes 5 minutes to download one, and install it.

From a pure functional perspective, it is actually it better to have IE8 as an alternative if you choose another browser to be your main browser. There are sites that work well with IE8, and do render well with other Browsers (and Vice-versa).

So horray to the European Antitrust Commission, if that what it takes them feel better, so be it.

After they have to find away to distract thier citizens from the 20% VAT that they charge them.

 

[blackangst1]

It actually has nothing to do with the USA. It has to do with EU and Microsoft.

 

[JackMDS]

It actually has nothing to do with the USA. It has to do with EU and Microsoft.

Right. :sneaky:

 

[Schadenfroh]

Is it really so painful to download and install a third-party browser? IIRC, Firefox and other browsers even prompts one with a pop-up to set it to the default browser when one runs it and then one never sees IE again (assuming auto-update is enabled).

So, I take it then that the point is that users do not know that browsers other than IE exist (they possibly do not even know what a web browser is, despite using one daily) and the best way to expose them to new things is to let them just happen to click on one other than IE during the randomized selection screen as they are blindly clicking "next" through the setup process?

It is a good thing the EU has another non-EU company, Intel, to go after next, they have just about milked Microsoft for everything remotely milkable under the sun. I take it that the owners of Netscape and AMD (the main companies / workers screwed by Microsoft and Intel) do not even get a small percentage of all of these fines?

 

[XZeroII]

The problem is going to be with all of the IT people out there who now have to support 5 browsers. If this happened in the US, I would not be happy as it would make my job a lot harder.

 

[Nothinman]

Right. :sneaky:

There's no doubt that part of it is because MS is a US company. However you also can't argue against MS having and abusing a monopoly in the PC market. And a large part of that abuse was making IE an integral part of the OS and giving developers no easy way to replace it. Even removing IE just removes the executable, the MSHTML rendering library is still there and used by the system. If they had provided a simple way to register a MSHTML replacement and a well defined set of APIs that a replacement would have to provide no one would've been able to complain.

Is it really so painful to download and install a third-party browser?

The problem is that most people don't know what their options are. They generally just use what their given and MS used that to push Netscape out of the market.

It is a good thing the EU has another non-EU company, Intel, to go after next, they have just about milked Microsoft for everything remotely milkable under the sun.

I'm pretty sure the fines imposed by the EU have had no real impact on MS' bottomline, they're still making cash hand over fist and will likely recoup those losses in the next quarter or so. So off the top of my head the EU has fined MS and forced them to document a large number of their formats and protocols for interoperability and a new tool to let users pick which browser they want set as their default. I don't really see how any of that's a bad thing.

The problem is going to be with all of the IT people out there who now have to support 5 browsers. If this happened in the US, I would not be happy as it would make my job a lot harder.

If your job becomes exponentially harder because of a few new browsers there's something very wrong. And in the case of corporate IT, it will have zero affect. Corporate will set a policy on which browsers are supported and that's it. It's not something new, people at lots of places have been asking for FF since most companies I've seen only tend to support IE.

 

[lxskllr]

It's all a stupid political game. Most people don't care what browser they use, and will end up confused when given a choice. Those that do care, know exactly where to download their preferred browser.

All the third party players are whining because they didn't try to compete for 10 years, and they lost out. Those douche bags were even squabbling over the order MS listed them on the page. It's like dealing with a bunch of undisciplined 4 year olds :^S

 

[XZeroII]

There's no doubt that part of it is because MS is a US company. However you also can't argue against MS having and abusing a monopoly in the PC market. And a large part of that abuse was making IE an integral part of the OS and giving developers no easy way to replace it. Even removing IE just removes the executable, the MSHTML rendering library is still there and used by the system. If they had provided a simple way to register a MSHTML replacement and a well defined set of APIs that a replacement would have to provide no one would've been able to complain.



The problem is that most people don't know what their options are. They generally just use what their given and MS used that to push Netscape out of the market.



I'm pretty sure the fines imposed by the EU have had no real impact on MS' bottomline, they're still making cash hand over fist and will likely recoup those losses in the next quarter or so. So off the top of my head the EU has fined MS and forced them to document a large number of their formats and protocols for interoperability and a new tool to let users pick which browser they want set as their default. I don't really see how any of that's a bad thing.



If your job becomes exponentially harder because of a few new browsers there's something very wrong. And in the case of corporate IT, it will have zero affect. Corporate will set a policy on which browsers are supported and that's it. It's not something new, people at lots of places have been asking for FF since most companies I've seen only tend to support IE.

We support a 3rd party web based application. So when our customers call us because something isn't working, we have to explain to them how to get it fixed. This can sometimes mean clearing browser cache or disabling a popup blocker for a certain site. We deal with a lot of small businesses so there are no corporate policies in place.

 

[JackMDS]

There's no doubt that part of it is because MS is a US company. However you also can't argue against MS having and abusing a monopoly in the PC market.

The issue is a specific court issue in the EU court.

Make me a list of EU Commercial computer Developers that MS did something to, concerning this issue.

And please No speculative "General Truth" type of arguments, and guilt by association.

 

[Nothinman]

Those douche bags were even squabbling over the order MS listed them on the page. It's like dealing with a bunch of undisciplined 4 year olds :^S

Because sadly, the order will matter. I'm sure a lot of people will consider the order a sort of "Top 10" list and consider the first to be the best and the last to be the worst.

We support a 3rd party web based application. So when our customers call us because something isn't working, we have to explain to them how to get it fixed. This can sometimes mean clearing browser cache or disabling a popup blocker for a certain site. We deal with a lot of small businesses so there are no corporate policies in place.

So? That's what you signed up for. It's not difficult to remember how to do those things. And hell I've used Google image searches for various products to walk people through things with apps that I didn't know well or have handy. It's a bit more work but not much.

Make me a list of EU Comertial computer Developers that MS did something to.

Simple, every web developer employed right now. MS alone has 3 major web browsers currently in use and they all render pages differently. If we had proper standards in place and MS actually followed them it wouldn't be an issue. They're only coming around now with IE8 because of pressure from developers and users.

But realy, it's not about developers anyway, it's about consumers, although the former usually fall into both categories.

 

[Cogman]

This is retarded. Firefox recently overtook IE in the EU. That, to me, says that MS including IE8 hasn't caused a monopoly on the market.

 

[Fox5]

My take on this is that the EU has the right to do something, but forcing Microsoft to modify their OS to support other browsers was the wrong thing.
They could have mandated every PC maker include by default a browser supporting a certain level of standards.
Or they could have mandated that every PC maker offers the option of alternative browsers on purchase/configuration or install.
Or something along those lines if they wanted competing products to have a boost. But making Microsoft sponsor competitors is just stupid.

 

[Nothinman]

This is retarded. Firefox recently overtook IE in the EU. That, to me, says that MS including IE8 hasn't caused a monopoly on the market.

Where did you get those numbers? All I could find with a little googling points to IE still having a >60% marketshare in Europe.

 

[sourceninja]

If I was them I'd ship no browser to the EU and let them figure out how to use ftp to get a browser.

 

[Pantoot]

Surely Apple will be doing the same, and not embedding Safari as the default browser...Right?

 

[Scotteq]

This is retarded. Firefox recently overtook IE in the EU. That, to me, says that MS including IE8 hasn't caused a monopoly on the market.

If I understand it correctly, it's about Microsoft (supposedly) abusing their dominant position on the desktop in order to provide an unfair advantage to their browser. EU's motivation$$$$ aside, that is the premise. I imagine pressures of this sort also contributed, at least in part, to Microsoft's removal of their eMail program and other accessorials from the baseline package. IIRC, MSFT also threatened to remove IE from Windows, as well, which understandably created more than a little uproar because... well... you need a browser in order to get onto the internet... in order to get a competitive browser. :\




Nothingman - I believe that "Firefox is #1" only counts if you consider IE 6, 7, and 8 to be separate products. Combined, Internet Exploder is still the dominant browser. T*m's had an article up a week or 3 ago about this.

 

[Scotteq]

Surely Apple will be doing the same, and not embedding Safari as the default browser...Right?

Hardly. :whiste:

 

[Nothinman]

Surely Apple will be doing the same, and not embedding Safari as the default browser...Right?

Can I uninstall Safari from OS X and have it actually remove he entire application? If so, the comparisons aren't equal. And on top of that, Apple doesn't even have a monopoly to abuse.

IIRC, MSFT also threatened to remove IE from Windows, as well, which understandably created more than a little uproar because... well... you need a browser in order to get onto the internet... in order to get a competitive browser.

Any uproar about that option is miguided. If MS did remove IE from the install disc OEMs would just be responsible for installing a browser.

 

[Genx87]

I honestly find it amusing people care what browser they are using. It is a browser. It renders a webpage. Whoopie effing do.

 

[Nothinman]

I honestly find it amusing people care what browser they are using. It is a browser. It renders a webpage. Whoopie effing do.

That's like saying that you laugh at people who prefer food from one restaraunt or another. I mean a burger from McDonald's is just as good as one from Red Robin, right?

 

[Genx87]

That's like saying that you laugh at people who prefer food from one restaraunt or another. I mean a burger from McDonald's is just as good as one from Red Robin, right?

It is a browser, get over it. I bet the majority of people this is supposed to help will be stuck clueless wondering how to get on the internet. The only people who care about which browser renders HTML for them will be able to find another one rather easily and would anyways if IE8 were the default on Win7.

 

[JackMDS]

I honestly find it amusing people care what browser they are using. It is a browser. It renders a webpage. Whoopie effing do.

In principle you are right.

Like everything else around us computing has three dominants aspects.

1. Technical

2. Economical

3. Societal

As a Bio-Engineer that developed software fir Cognitive rehabilitation I have an interest in the technological aspect of computing so the nature of a browser and how it work is of interest to me.

On the other hand, you are right the majority of users actually do not know what the browser that they are using is. As far as they are concerning it is the icon that brings in the Internet. As long as they are satisfied with their capacity to use the Interenet, they do not care about our "little wars".

Societal. Our lame society is largely based on adapting the success of others instead of striving to personal success.

Therefore, we adapt Celebrities, Sport Stars, Politicians, and of course being a fan of AMD vs. Intel, ATI vs. nVidia, and so, and so on.

Economical, I do not think needs to be explained.

In forums like ours, it is very important to people to feel that they Win the discussion. So in order to appear a winner people tend to shift between the three mentions above choosing what is comfortable to theme regardless of coherent logic.
As I said before the issue of the browser in Windows has nothing to do with the Browsers per-se, and has very little to do with Microsoft. It is part the Economical struggle between the EU and the USA, and it is heavily influenced by EU internal political needs.

Therefore, if One wants to discuss the Technological/functional merits of I.E. vs. Firefox it can be an intriguing debate if it is based on technology and not on an Economy/Political decision by the EU Anti Trust Court.

 

[Nothinman]

It is a browser, get over it. I bet the majority of people this is supposed to help will be stuck clueless wondering how to get on the internet. The only people who care about which browser renders HTML for them will be able to find another one rather easily and would anyways if IE8 were the default on Win7.

So you'd advocate just 1 model and type of car as well? Afterall, it's just at transportation device so why should people care how well it works or what it looks like, right?

If they all really were "just browsers" and all followed the HTML spec the same, you'd be right. But that's clearly not the case.

 

[Genx87]

So you'd advocate just 1 model and type of car as well? Afterall, it's just at transportation device so why should people care how well it works or what it looks like, right?

If they all really were "just browsers" and all followed the HTML spec the same, you'd be right. But that's clearly not the case.

If there werent clear distinctions between say an Audi A8 and a Chevy Malibu, yes. Are there that clear and discernable differences between the browsers for the avg user? Not at all. And I question outside of a few addons for Firefox if it for more advanced users as well.