Compact gamer...

[Ninjahedge]

Hey guys.

I know I asked this a few months ago, but I do not see it on the first few pages (and times have changed).

I am looking for an upgrade for the gamer machine. The Lian Li E660 with an ATI 4950 (I think...) is starting to show its age, especially no things like boot times.

I am looking for a good compact system (possibly mini ATX?) that would be able to handle the job.

Peripherals already purchased/owned:

Turtle Beach USB sound (headphones+mic)
G20 USB keyboard
USB mouse (I forgot the model number)
2 x 20" Dell LCD's (1600x1200)
USB printer.

Storage size is not a huge problem, as I can easily get a good 1tb drive pretty cheaply now anyway, but there are other things.

1. What would be the best bang/$ for the vid card?
2. SSD?
3. Windows 7? Pro? "Home"?
4. Memory.

As well as all the other standards like case, board and whatnot.

I am shooting for somewhere between $700 and $1000 (pretty much what I have been doing on almost all of my systems) with the possibility of future upgrade if something is really worth it (better vid card, HD/SSD).

Any input/suggestions would be welcome!

TIA

 

[fx_rage]

PM sent about a rig that I'm selling. I can add HDD, SSD, optical, media card reader, and operating system if need be.

 

[Zap]

1. What would be the best bang/$ for the vid card?
Usually a couple steps below highest end is the best bang/buck. Cards like the GeForce GTX 560 Ti or even a GTX 570 if you find a hot deal on one. On AMD's side, the Radeon 6870 or 6950 seem pretty nice.

2. SSD?
Depends on how it fits in with your budget. I'm a firm believer in SSDs for performance, but my budget is probably higher than yours. You should concentrate on specifying the rest of your system first, and if budget permits then add in an SSD.

3. Windows 7? Pro? "Home"?
Yes to Windows 7. For most home users and gamers, Home Premium is sufficient. Microsoft has a quick comparison chart on the major feature differences. A couple things I can think of that they left off there is Remote Desktop hosting (can't with Home Premium) and RAM amount support (Home Premium can only use 16GB max). In any case, use the 64-bit version. No reason not to.

4. Memory.
All the latest platforms use DDR3. All except socket 1366 (which is not a good buy right now) use dual channel. With that being said, my recommendation is to get a 4GB dual channel DDR3 kit rated for 1.5v and at least 1333MHz data rate (but don't spend too much on anything faster).

What CPU are you coming from?

How "compact" do you want it? There is micro ATX (mATX) and mini ITX.

Do you care how quiet or noisy it is?

 

[Ninjahedge]

Zap, thanks for the 411.

My current gaming rig is old school. A simple E6600 . I will have to go home and take a look at the specs to get more info though. The vid card is at least 2 years old and about 1/2 generations back from prime when I bought it (I follow the same rule you posted. Never the latest, give it and its drivers time to get real). I believe I am on a 4870 right now.

Noise is not paramount, so long as it is not revved up on plain desktop apps and that it is not a dustbuster when I am playing Crysis/TF2 (I know, basic) or any other new title I will be more likely to purchase with the new machine...

Thanks again! I will post more info when I get it.

fx, I replied to the PM. We can talk after I have researched this a bit more.

Until then!

 

[Zap]

Coming from an E6600, any Intel socket 1156 or 1155 will be faster plus draw less power overall.

You didn't answer my "how compact do you want it?"

Micro ATX mini tower cases will usually be about 2-4" shorter and 0-2" less deep than the typical ATX mid towers. Some are also narrower, but usually width is the same. Thus, they are smaller while not being super small. The good thing though is that mATX can pretty much take the place of ATX these days. You can get a half dozen HDDs, overclock like crazy and even do dual graphics (SLI/Crossfire) with mATX these days. Basically, why wouldn't you go smaller than ATX.

Mini ITX still has some tradeoffs. The huge benefit, of course, is much smaller size (except for some of the Lian Li mini towers). Still, you can get a fairly small size while still doing a high end single graphics card and a Core i7.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Sorry Zap.

I was looking for possibly half height from my Lian mid tower I have now.

It is all a question of desk space. I get it small enough, it can come up top to play rather than being stuck under.

As for things like Crossfire, i am avoidingthe ultra route for the simple reason that all you have to do is wait 6 months and you will probably get a card that can do the same by itself!

I DID do this WAY back when with two Canopus cards and it was a leap and a bound above the "Matrox Mistique". But I am going to try and keep it simple and frugal for now.

http://www.3dgw.com/review/pure3d2/review.htm

http://www.guru3d.com/review/mystique.html

Mistique = 4 meg video!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!

 

[Zap]

In your older thread we were talking about the Silverstone SG05 and SG06 cases. Those are still about the smallest you can get volume-wise while still being a gaming rig.

They are available with 300W or 450W PSUs. You may want the 450W to give you some flexibility.

The SG06 is quieter, while the SG05 has more airflow. They are pretty much the same so "quiet" or "airflow" really means "just a bit." Still, something to be aware of. Being on the desk means closer to your ears.

BTW the SG05/SG06 uses a slim optical drive and can hold a 2.5" SSD plus a 3.5" HDD at the same time, so you have some flexibility.

I'm thinking something like the GTX 560 Ti or the Radeon 5870 can fit in that case and can run off that PSU.

For memory, 4GB (dual channel DDR3 1.5v at 1333MHz or 1600MHz data rate) should be sufficient for gaming for the next few years. If you have other things you'll be using the system for, let us know. The thing is that with mini ITX you won't have any extra RAM slots, so it would be good to start with what you'll need in the future, if you can predict that.

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit is good enough for gaming.

At this time Sandy Bridge is the platform to get.

Silverstone SG06-450 $140
Core i5 2500K $230
socket 1155 motherboard (about any will do) $120
4GB DDR3 $40
GTX 560 Ti $230
slim optical drive + adapter $40
Samsung F3 1TB HDD $65
=$865

Within your $1000 budget you can add a 60GB SSD, or you can wait and possibly upgrade to a 120GB SSD in the future once you get more funds or pricing drops.

 

[llee]

In your older thread we were talking about the Silverstone SG05 and SG06 cases. Those are still about the smallest you can get volume-wise while still being a gaming rig.

Zap's right, the SG05/06 is the best SFF case you can get at the moment.

They are available with 300W or 450W PSUs. You may want the 450W to give you some flexibility.

Please read this link: http://www.itxgamer.com/powersupplies/dont-need-as-much-power/ you should aim to give yourself a buffer between your max consumption so your PSU is most efficient.

BTW the SG05/SG06 uses a slim optical drive and can hold a 2.5" SSD plus a 3.5" HDD at the same time, so you have some flexibility.

I would recommend from experience taking off the optical drive and hard drive cage and simply taping the ssd/2.5" drive alongside the SFX PSU. The PSU and HDD/SDD are the same width.

I'm thinking something like the GTX 560 Ti or the Radeon 5870 can fit in that case and can run off that PSU.

I know from experience that a 560 Ti will fit without mods. A reference 5870 WILL NOT fit without mods. Even with mods, the power cables will hit the front panel with an SG-05. If you pick an SG-06, you need to dremel out part of the metal in the front to make room for the video card.

 

[EliteRetard]

You can get a pre built from AvaDirect near your price...might be nice having someone else do a cramped build.

You can get:

SG06 450W
i5 2400S Quad 6MB 65W 2.5-3.3GHz (turbo)
Scythe Shuriken cooler
Gigabyte H67 MOBO
2x2GB Kingston HyperX 1333MHz CAS9 1.5V
1TB 7200RPM HDD (Seagate Samsung WD etc)
Slim DVD Burner (LiteOn Samsung Sony)
Win7 Prem 64bit

And the best part is you can get an EVGA GTX570 Sapphire Vapor-X OC 5870/6950 and they will mod the case to fit.

Comes out to about 1100$ with a 3yr warrenty.

The pricing seems fair, even for RAM/HDD upgrades...the real weakness seems to be the limited CPU choices (the 2400s being the best, and very limited/no overclocking) You can play with the configs to tune the pricing, they even have the option to get the older more power hungry 1156 CPUs for the same money

 

[Ninjahedge]

Thanks guys. Very helpful.

Leon, do you have a pic of the tape-mount for the SSD?


Zap, other uses would be simple music ripping (most of my collection is still at 128....), possible vid conversion (HD camera), photo editing (10MP raw files -> Jpg through PS, Picasa or Lightroom).

I can't really think of anything else that would be more of a resource hog than that. CAD 3D rendering may be in the chips too, but I do not want to get a different vid card just because tha gamer cards don't support (or vice versa) ACAD.....

Thanks again!

 

[Zap]

I would recommend from experience taking off the optical drive and hard drive cage and simply taping the ssd/2.5" drive alongside the SFX PSU. The PSU and HDD/SDD are the same width.

Why would you recommend this? I have a simple build in an SG05 with a Core i3 1156, GTS 250, one 2.5" drive, one 3.5" HDD and a slot load slim ODD. No issues with cooling. I know the top part of the intake fan is blocked, but there's still plenty of air going through there.

I know from experience that a 560 Ti will fit without mods. A reference 5870 WILL NOT fit without mods. Even with mods, the power cables will hit the front panel with an SG-05. If you pick an SG-06, you need to dremel out part of the metal in the front to make room for the video card.

That's good to know. Okay, so the GTX 560 Ti is the best that can easily fit.

Zap, other uses would be simple music ripping (most of my collection is still at 128....), possible vid conversion (HD camera), photo editing (10MP raw files -> Jpg through PS, Picasa or Lightroom).

Music ripping doesn't take much resources. For the other stuff, you might want more RAM, so look into the 8GB kits since mini ITX only has two RAM slots.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Good to know.

It gets frustrating when you buy a new set and end up wasting cash (my older XP machine could not handle 4x1G sticks, I had to remove one. For some reason that extra memory it could not fully address caused some problems). I have also had problems with matching pairs, etc.

They seem to be a hell of a lot more compatible these days, but still....


Any rec's on timings, or is that a dead subject now?

 

[Zap]

It's pretty dead with Sandy Bridge. Just get DDR3 that is 1.5v and at least (but not necessarily faster than) 1333MHz data rate.

 

[Ninjahedge]

I guess I should start putting together a NewEgg wishlist and wait for the right moment.....

 

[Skott]

Some people have reported that the 450w psu in the SG05 starts chirping once it starts drawing over 300w of power. Some people experience it and some don't. Its been a topic of debate on various forums. Never used it myself so I can't comment about it. You may want to look into it.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Bump for my own ref.

(Comment if you want)

 

[Axon]

I've got a full SG05 gaming LAN right (i3 540, 1TB HDD, Silverstone Black SG05 450w PSU, AMD 6850) that I'm looking to sell if you're interested. I built it for myself, so it's in tip top shape. Probably half the price or less of that quote above.

No chirping once the PSU draws a lot of power, at least for me.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Thanks for the heads up Axion, but I am a little wary of buying from peeps I do not know (especially with things like Computers... Example: It is hard to tell if someone reved it up to see how much they could OC it before crash and how much heat damage they may have done if the machine still works).

I have only bought once from an online friend, and that was because he was local (NYC area) and he helped me in the past.

What is spurring your sale? Upgrade or financial woe?

 

[akahoovy]

I've been looking into a mini-itx computer for a while now, and I'm ready to start buying parts as good deals show up. I will most likely get something very close to what Zap recommended, but I was wondering if a GTX 560 Ti comes with a dual-link DVI for a 120hz monitor? I'm not interested currently in 3D gaming.

 

[Zap]

was wondering if a GTX 560 Ti comes with a dual-link DVI for a 120hz monitor?

Yes, the DVI port on a GTX 560 Ti will be dual link.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Any reason for only one PCI on the mini footprint? The Shuttle I have now for HTPC has 2 slots and that has come in handy (vid+wireless).

I also saw someone talking about LianLi in the mini cases... Any good/bad on that?

I will share the compiled wishlist when I am done...

 

[Ninjahedge]

My Wish List Details


Compact Gamer

Qty. Image Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1
SILVERSTONE Sugo Series SG06BB-450 ALL Black Aluminum / SECC Mini-ITX Desktop Computer Case with SFX 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ...
Model #:SG06BB-450
Item #:N82E16811163172
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$149.99 $149.99
1
Seagate Barracuda XT ST32000641AS 2TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Model #:ST32000641AS
Item #:N82E16822148506
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$159.99 -$10.00 Instant $149.99
1
EVGA SuperClocked 01G-P3-1461-KR GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video ...
Model #:01G-P3-1461-KR
Item #:N82E16814130661
Return Policy:VGA Standard Return Policy
In Stock
Mail in Rebate Card
$199.99 -$10.00 Instant $189.99
1
Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model 996770
Model #:996770
Item #:N82E16820226095
Return Policy:Memory Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$77.99 $77.99
1
ASUS P8H61-I (REV 3.0) LGA 1155 Intel H61 HDMI USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard
Model #8H61-I (REV 3.0)
Item #:N82E16813131727
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$84.99 $84.99
1
Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K
Model #:BX80623I52500K
Item #:N82E16819115072
Return Policy:CPU Replacement Only Return Policy
In Stock
$219.99 $219.99
1
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - OEM
Model #:GFC-02050
Item #:N82E16832116986
Return Policy:Software Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$99.99 $99.99
Subtotal: $972.93




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[DaveSimmons]

Looks nice, that's close to what I'd buy if I wanted to build one today.

H61 won't overclock so you could save a little and get a plain i5-2500.

I haven't heard much good about Seagate HDDs lately so I'd probably get a 1 TB Samsung Spinpoint instead.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Thanks Dave.

I was looking through mini's and that is one of the only ones I found (on NE) that had a decent rating AND a good price.....

Any clue on what might replace it?

Also, I partially agree on the Seagate. It has been a while since I have HD shopped..... Any rec on a reliable drive with decent $/GB?

 

[DaveSimmons]

If you want to overclock you'd need a P67 / Z68 chipset motherboard, not H61 or H67. (The automatic Turbo Boost works fine, you just can't pick pick any multipliers on your own.)

I don't normally overclock, so I'd be fine with a H61 + 2500, instead of paying more and moving up to micro-ATX size to get P67/Z68 = 2500K.

As far as drives, you can get a fast and reliable 1 TB Samsung for $50 (until 6/20) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822152185

Do you really need more than 1 TB?