Company is firing all of its smokers - whether they smoke at work or not

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Amused

The line will be drawn when an employer can no longer staff their company with competent people because their rules are too restrictive.

The vast majority of companies will never do this, folks. Your fears are unfounded.

I understand this. But what about the individual? Is it ok for a company to discriminate against someone because they are fat? Or because they smoke?

So basically, you believe in discrimination........... as long as it isn't for race, religion, national origin, or disability.

Awesome.

Everyone discriminates. The only laws limiting discrimination are those related to sex, race, national origin, disability and age. Everything else is open for discrimination, as it should be.

Would you want someone you don't like working for you AGAINST YOUR WILL? Do you think it's right for the government to force business owners to employ people they don't want to?

Do you want to work for someone who doesn't like you? Do you think you'll have much of a future in such a job? Do you think the work environment would be enjoyable?

Your rights do not and cannot necessitate the loss of another's rights.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused and this guy would get along well.

That's right.

I'm also gay because I support gay rights.

I'm a druggie because I oppose the war on drugs.

I'm a minority because I support racial equality

And I'm a smoker because I oppose oppressive anti-smoking laws and taxes.

:roll:

I have overweight employees and employees that smoke. Most of them have been fine employees. Two of them are my best employees. I have no reason to discriminate against them.

But that does NOT mean I want to take that freedom away from others.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: episodic
Most states have 'at will employment' you can fire a person for any reason at all. Last I checked, smokers are not a federally protected group.

And probably never will be. Lets face it, smoking is a terrible habit, and most smokers even agree. Nobody likes it and if people are too lazy to try and quit, that's their own fault. I'm sure the company said quit or get fired, not just plain fire without warning. Let's see, choose to kill myself or keep my job...

 

[Terumo]

Originally posted by: Amused
Everyone discriminates. The only laws limiting discrimination are those related to sex, race, national origin, disability and age. Everything else is open for discrimination, as it should be.

Can you believe this???????????????????????????

:disgust:

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Terumo

Originally posted by: Amused
Everyone discriminates. The only laws limiting discrimination are those related to sex, race, national origin, disability and age. Everything else is open for discrimination, as it should be.

Can you believe this???????????????????????????

:disgust:

Yes, I can. Do you think it's bad for employers to discriminate for criminal histories? What about bad credit?

Both are activities that happen outside the workplace, yet employers use both to "discriminate" and choose who to employ.

Life is filled with discrimination. When you choose one consumer brand over another you are "discriminating." Discrimination is just another word for "choice."

Employers should be free to choose whoever they want to work for them. You have no "right" to take that freedom away from them any more than they would have a "right" to force you to work for them.

 

[Terumo]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Terumo

Originally posted by: Amused
Everyone discriminates. The only laws limiting discrimination are those related to sex, race, national origin, disability and age. Everything else is open for discrimination, as it should be.

Can you believe this???????????????????????????

:disgust:

Yes, I can. Do you think it's bad for employers to discriminate for criminal histories? What about bad credit?

Both are activities that happen outside the workplace, yet employers use both to "discriminate" and choose who to employ.

Life is filled with discrimination. When you choose one consumer brand over another you are "discriminating." Discrimination is just another word for "choice."

Employers should be free to choose whoever they want to work for them. You have no "right" to take that freedom away from them any more than they would have a "right" to force you to work for them.

With that view of EVERYTHING ELSE IS OPEN means much more than what you're defending -- it can mean anything.

I don't offer anyone a blank check, and why should anyone offer an employer one??

 

[EMPshockwave82]

Originally posted by: Ausm
That is ridiculous! They will be able to sue the company quaranteed!


Ausm

YOU could sue that company if you wanted to... weather you worked there or not


they are not firing these people based on race, religion, creed, color, sex or any other target group. If these workers sue the company i can almost guarantee a loss in the courtroom.

 

[Hammer]

fatties are next

On CNN's front page

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Terumo

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Terumo

Originally posted by: Amused
Everyone discriminates. The only laws limiting discrimination are those related to sex, race, national origin, disability and age. Everything else is open for discrimination, as it should be.

Can you believe this???????????????????????????

:disgust:

Yes, I can. Do you think it's bad for employers to discriminate for criminal histories? What about bad credit?

Both are activities that happen outside the workplace, yet employers use both to "discriminate" and choose who to employ.

Life is filled with discrimination. When you choose one consumer brand over another you are "discriminating." Discrimination is just another word for "choice."

Employers should be free to choose whoever they want to work for them. You have no "right" to take that freedom away from them any more than they would have a "right" to force you to work for them.

With that view of EVERYTHING ELSE IS OPEN means much more than what you're defending -- it can mean anything.

I don't offer anyone a blank check, and why should anyone offer an employer one??

Because, with the exception of a very few limitations, that's what freedom is all about. The freedom to do as one pleases so long as one does not infringe on the rights of another. Employment is NOT a right. Therefore hiring and firing at will is a freedom the employer enjoys.

You enjoy your freedom, allow employers to have theirs.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82

Originally posted by: Ausm
That is ridiculous! They will be able to sue the company quaranteed!


Ausm

YOU could sue that company if you wanted to... weather you worked there or not


they are not firing these people based on race, religion, creed, color, sex or any other target group. If these workers sue the company i can almost guarantee a loss in the courtroom.

Correct, but we have a lot of sue happy peopel that ONLY hear about the 1% of cases that actually win with sometype of good payoff. That and think the law/courts works like it is seen on TV

 

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused and this guy would get along well.

That's right.

I'm also gay because I support gay rights.

I'm a druggie because I oppose the war on drugs.

I'm a minority because I support racial equality

And I'm a smoker because I oppose oppressive anti-smoking laws and taxes.

:roll:

I have overweight employees and employees that smoke. Most of them have been fine employees. Two of them are my best employees. I have no reason to discriminate against them.

But that does NOT mean I want to take that freedom away from others.

It's a joke you weenie. Lighten up.

I already know your stance on this subject.
On a side note don't use ridiculous logical fallacies to get your point across.

Also, not to rehash the same arguments over and over. You keep bringing up that employment is not a right, which it isn't and were very clear on that. Though privacy is a right, and the company is violating that by demanding to know what an employee does on it's time not at work, then firing them for not complying with that request. You don't have a right to my medical records, you don't have a right to know if I smoke or not.

 

[Hammer]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused and this guy would get along well.

That's right.

I'm also gay because I support gay rights.

I'm a druggie because I oppose the war on drugs.

I'm a minority because I support racial equality

And I'm a smoker because I oppose oppressive anti-smoking laws and taxes.

:roll:

I have overweight employees and employees that smoke. Most of them have been fine employees. Two of them are my best employees. I have no reason to discriminate against them.

But that does NOT mean I want to take that freedom away from others.

It's a joke you weenie. Lighten up.

I already know your stance on this subject.
On a side note don't use ridiculous logical fallacies to get your point across.

Also, not to rehash the same arguments over and over. You keep bringing up that employment is not a right, which it isn't and were very clear on that. Though privacy is a right, and the company is violating that by demanding to know what an employee does on it's time not at work, then firing them for not complying with that request. You don't have a right to my medical records, you don't have a right to know if I smoke or not.

the new article on CNN said they quit rather than take the test.

 

the new article on CNN said they quit rather than take the test.

I know, I've read all three articles on the subject. They would rather quit because they know their right to privacy is being invaded.

 

[Hammer]

Originally posted by: SampSon

the new article on CNN said they quit rather than take the test.

I know, I've read all three articles on the subject. They would rather quit because they know their right to privacy is being invaded.

yeah, but they have less recourse if they quit.

 

Originally posted by: Hammer

Originally posted by: SampSon

the new article on CNN said they quit rather than take the test.

I know, I've read all three articles on the subject. They would rather quit because they know their right to privacy is being invaded.

yeah, but they have less recourse if they quit.

True, but that's beside the point. Most will just go find another job, unless were talking about higherups, which this company doesn't seem to have many of.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: SampSon


Also, not to rehash the same arguments over and over. You keep bringing up that employment is not a right, which it isn't and were very clear on that. Though privacy is a right, and the company is violating that by demanding to know what an employee does on it's time not at work, then firing them for not complying with that request. You don't have a right to my medical records, you don't have a right to know if I smoke or not.

The Forth Amendment protects you from government intrusions only. No other entity has the legal right to FORCE you to reveal information therefore no protection is required. If your employer asks for it as a condition of employment, your recourse is to quit.

No one is violating your privacy. You are not forced to reveal anything to your employer and your employer is not forced to employ you.

Ain't freedom grand?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Amused

The line will be drawn when an employer can no longer staff their company with competent people because their rules are too restrictive.

The vast majority of companies will never do this, folks. Your fears are unfounded.

I understand this. But what about the individual? Is it ok for a company to discriminate against someone because they are fat? Or because they smoke?

So basically, you believe in discrimination........... as long as it isn't for race, religion, national origin, or disability.

Awesome.

Everyone discriminates. The only laws limiting discrimination are those related to sex, race, national origin, disability and age. Everything else is open for discrimination, as it should be.

Would you want someone you don't like working for you AGAINST YOUR WILL? Do you think it's right for the government to force business owners to employ people they don't want to?

Do you want to work for someone who doesn't like you? Do you think you'll have much of a future in such a job? Do you think the work environment would be enjoyable?

Your rights do not and cannot necessitate the loss of another's rights.

Hmm...

Good points.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SampSon
Amused and this guy would get along well.

That's right.

I'm also gay because I support gay rights.

I'm a druggie because I oppose the war on drugs.

I'm a minority because I support racial equality

And I'm a smoker because I oppose oppressive anti-smoking laws and taxes.

:roll:

I have overweight employees and employees that smoke. Most of them have been fine employees. Two of them are my best employees. I have no reason to discriminate against them.

But that does NOT mean I want to take that freedom away from others.

It's a joke you weenie. Lighten up.

I already know your stance on this subject.
On a side note don't use ridiculous logical fallacies to get your point across.

Also, not to rehash the same arguments over and over. You keep bringing up that employment is not a right, which it isn't and were very clear on that. Though privacy is a right, and the company is violating that by demanding to know what an employee does on it's time not at work, then firing them for not complying with that request. You don't have a right to my medical records, you don't have a right to know if I smoke or not.

Now this I can agree with.

Originally posted by: Amused
The Forth Amendment protects you from government intrusions only. No other entity has the legal right to FORCE you to reveal information therefore no protection is required. If your employer asks for it as a condition of employment, your recourse is to quit.

No one is violating your privacy. You are not forced to reveal anything to your employer and your employer is not forced to employ you.

Ain't freedom grand?

Hmm.. ineresting. I understand.

Well, I guess that pretty much puts it to rest. Just seems like we all take our jobs for granted, or whatnot... they're such an integral part of our lives, we feel strongly about them....

 

[spamsk8r]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: Wanescotting
So what about the employees that engage in unprotected sex? What about the employees that are obese?



Where would it stop?

I was on the fence - you made up my mind. :beer:2u.

Don't fall for it.

What about the ones that don't brush their teeth, or don't get their shots, or go sky diving, or, or, or...

Smoking is always a choice, obesity is not.

Sex is life. STDs are a risk, but so is driving. Play it safe and you reduce that risk. You can't "safely" smoke.

Obesity isn't a choice? I beg to differ. Also, sex is a choice, for everyone, just as much as smoking is. I choose to smoke, but I also choose to not have sex. Argument void.

 

[dev0lution]

To be fair they should fire all the obese people, anyone who engages in extreme sports, people with bad driving records and anyone else who's a higher "risk" for medical care or insurance claims. It's discrimination, pure and simple.

And the whole "you have to eat to live" argument is full of holes. Yes, you have to eat. No, you don't have to eat that twinkie, extra side of bacon and double cheeseburger. We're turning into a nation of fat slobs. There's plenty of health epidemics and behaviours that are just as taxing on the healthcare/insurance system as smoking. What you do in your own home doesn't carry over to work. Pretty soon it'll be "no dental coverage for little johnny unless he kicks his candy habit..."

On the other hand, who wants to work for a company that polices your private life. Screw 'em... benefits like healthcare are rewards for employees who work hard and essential to retaining quality employees, not a corporation doing you a favor for eating right. Any savings they get will be passed on to the bottom line and Executives, not put back into growing the business or raising base pay.

 

[imported_malcontent]

This is insane, I just have to wonder how long it will be a employment requirement that one must be of a certain polical party, a certain religious belief, have a certain hair color, etc.

Insanity has no limits...

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: malcontent
This is insane, I just have to wonder how long it will be a employment requirement that one must be of a certain polical party, a certain religious belief, have a certain hair color, etc.

Insanity has no limits...

:::sigh:::

People... again... employers have always had the legal right to do things like this and very few have because it's counterproductive. This is NOT something new and it is NOT the start to some horrible trend.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: malcontent
This is insane, I just have to wonder how long it will be a employment requirement that one must be of a certain polical party, a certain religious belief, have a certain hair color, etc.

Insanity has no limits...

:::sigh:::
People... again... employers have always had the legal right to do things like this and very few have because it's counterproductive. This is NOT something new and it is NOT the start to some horrible trend.

"it is NOT the start to some horrible trend."

Yea and the Chef Menteur didn't get elected again :roll:

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: malcontent
This is insane, I just have to wonder how long it will be a employment requirement that one must be of a certain polical party, a certain religious belief, have a certain hair color, etc.

Insanity has no limits...

:::sigh:::
People... again... employers have always had the legal right to do things like this and very few have because it's counterproductive. This is NOT something new and it is NOT the start to some horrible trend.

"it is NOT the start to some horrible trend."

Yea and the Chef Menteur didn't get elected again :roll:

Dave, do you ever pass up the opportunity to say something incredibly ignorant and stupid?

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: malcontent
This is insane, I just have to wonder how long it will be a employment requirement that one must be of a certain polical party, a certain religious belief, have a certain hair color, etc.

Insanity has no limits...

:::sigh:::
People... again... employers have always had the legal right to do things like this and very few have because it's counterproductive. This is NOT something new and it is NOT the start to some horrible trend.

"it is NOT the start to some horrible trend."

Yea and the Chef Menteur didn't get elected again :roll:

Dave, do you ever pass up the opportunity to say something incredibly ignorant and stupid?

BWHAHAHAHAH
Remember when he wanted to sue someone because they wouldn't let him spam?