Compelling evidence for Global Warming?

[busmaster11]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/12/07/polar.warming.ap/index.html

For those of you with an open mind. Conservatives, tree-bashers, loggers, etc. - please, continue to dismiss, as you've always done...

 

[EdwardChang]

Wow, an actual serious topic here, thanks busmaster11

 

[HappyPuppy]

Have you ever considered that the third rock from the Sun goes through periodic changes in climate that have nothing to do with the pissants that populate its surface?

 

[thomsbrain]

:sniff sniff:: what's that smell? it's getting stronger... oh i think it's the conservatives running as fast as they can to heap their bullsh!t into this thread!

 

[Moonbeam]

I hear General Motors has accepted golbal warming as a fact to which they have to respond.

There are still people who think the earth is flat. You can point, but you can't make people see what makes them feel bad by threatening something they identify with. Remember, everybody is looking for self respect by latching onto something they think has it. Once they get a good hold, there's no prying un loose.

 

[JellyBaby]

The fact is there are few hard facts regarding whether or not it's happening and, if so, if it's a cyclical pattern out of our control or something within our means to help correct.

Eithe way, until the oceans eat up a few large U.S. cities not much will be done.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Have you ever considered that the third rock from the Sun goes through periodic changes in climate that have nothing to do with the pissants that populate its surface?

Have you ever stopped to consider these scientists who have IQ's, education, and validity a little bit higher than you average Joe have factored in that variable before comming to thier conclusions?

 

[busmaster11]

Yeah... There of course will be some people who will continue to believe the earth is flat - some will even swear to have known people who have sailed off of it...

In any case, with conservatives running congress (inmates/asylum?) I see nothing of practical consequence being done for good (though plenty have been done for the bad - see the weaking of the clean air, water, logging/oil drilling, and endangered species acts and measures going through Congress) until the economy gets better and people start to develop lucrative markets based on environmental protection somehow...

 

[Squisher]

No one can dispute the fact that there has been a warming pattern lately.

Is it a major trend?

Is it caused by man?


Wasn't there like 30 ice ages if you count all the minor ones?



This is my heap of bullsh!t

 

[KMurphy]

Originally posted by: busmaster11
...until the economy gets better and people start to develop lucrative markets based on environmental protection somehow...

What would you base this economy on? Happy thoughts? The main drivers for the world economy are what you are so much against; wood and hydrocarbons. Just think of life without paper, plastic, fuel, lubricants, adhesives, pharmaceuticals and abundant electricity.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Squisher
No one can dispute the fact that there has been a warming pattern lately.

Is it a major trend?

Is it caused by man?

Wasn't there like 30 ice ages if you count all the minor ones?

This is my heap of bullsh!t

You're bringing up points that surely every respected climatoligist has studied, yet more and more are becoming quite convinced (judging by the articles) that mankind is causing something to happen to the environment; they are less certain that it is a "warming" as they are that there is in deed an impact, and it may be unpredictable.

Scientists have computed the equations and the theories for those among us who aren't arrogant enough to think that we're smart enough in five minutes of reading to think of perspectives they couldn't in a lifetime of exploration.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: KMurphy

Originally posted by: busmaster11
...until the economy gets better and people start to develop lucrative markets based on environmental protection somehow...

What would you base this economy on? Happy thoughts? The main drivers for the world economy are what you are so much against; wood and hydrocarbons. Just think of life without paper, plastic, fuel, lubricants, adhesives, pharmaceuticals and abundant electricity.

I'll be the first to acknowledge that it will make a tremendous impact on my life to sacrifice even a quarter of the things that are irrespnsible to the environment. But we all know that if society has, from the get-go, been dependent on irresponsible looting of the environment, it will be a hard sell, and getting harder by the year, to change course toward something more environmentally friendly. But it will have to be done for the sake of future generations.

Too bad anyone with an ounce of common sense knows this republican government is too concerned with kissing the arse of lobbyists to do anything about it. :|

 

[Sid59]

Global Warming is mostly due to the pollution and CFCs in the atmosphere, which can't go anywhere.

Global warming has progressively gotten worse. The Earth's population has progressivley gotten bigger.

If the tree huggers don't care for the Earth and push Grass Root Assemblies into Congress, who will?

Most people just don't care. That's the sad truth to it all.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Squisher
No one can dispute the fact that there has been a warming pattern lately.

Is it a major trend?

Is it caused by man?

Wasn't there like 30 ice ages if you count all the minor ones?

This is my heap of bullsh!t

You're bringing up points that surely every respected climatoligist has studied, yet more and more are becoming quite convinced (judging by the articles) that mankind is causing something to happen to the environment; they are less certain that it is a "warming" as they are that there is in deed an impact, and it may be unpredictable.

Scientists have computed the equations and the theories for those among us who aren't arrogant enough to think that we're smart enough in five minutes of reading to think of perspectives they couldn't in a lifetime of exploration.

Only problem is for every scientist that says man is causing the warming, you can find one with a different natural opinion. There is no scientific consensus on why the warming is occuring.

These same scientist can predict the weather for next week, much less 100 years out.


That being said, I think we should strive to have cleaner industry.


edit/addition:

Having cleaner industry starts with the consumer. Starting with replacing light bulbs with compact flourescents(are these less poluting the long run/disposale wise?), energy efficient hvacs(tax credits for replacing old units),tax credits for high MPG vehicles, low power computers....

There is much the consumer can do without industry.

 

[heartsurgeon]

as the wall street journal put

would you rather have global cooling?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
as the wall street journal put

would you rather have global cooling?

That was a concern of 20-30 years ago right?

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: charrison
Only problem is for every scientist that says man is causing the warming, you can find one with a different natural opinion. There is no scientific consensus on why the warming is occuring.

These same scientist can predict the weather for next week, much less 100 years out.


That being said, I think we should strive to have cleaner industry.

And there won't be a consensus, till there's but a handful of people left in the world, or until it personally impacts greatly on the doubter's own backyard.

There are countless political motivations for a scientist to claim that man-induced global warming doesn't exist, but I can't think of a single one to claim it does.

...Unless of course, you're a paranoid conservative worried that euro-treehuggers and Kyoto-pushers are trying to undermine the American economy...

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: charrison
Only problem is for every scientist that says man is causing the warming, you can find one with a different natural opinion. There is no scientific consensus on why the warming is occuring.

These same scientist can predict the weather for next week, much less 100 years out.


That being said, I think we should strive to have cleaner industry.

And there won't be a consensus, till there's but a handful of people left in the world, or until it personally impacts greatly on the doubter's own backyard.

There are countless political motivations for a scientist to claim that man-induced global warming doesn't exist, but I can't think of a single one to claim it does.

...Unless of course, you're a paranoid conservative worried that euro-treehuggers and Kyoto-pushers are trying to undermine the American economy...

There is not consensus now for a reason, we just really dont know what is causing the global warming. You cant discount a theory just because you dont agree with it.

I also think there are far smarter ways to acheive lower emmissions than kyoto.

 

[busmaster11]

Like what? Pollution credits? Waiving the requirements for heavy industry to buy equipment to quanitify and reduce their emmissions to save them money? You're not buying that are you?



*yawn*

I'm going to bed. Will give it a bump tomorrow morning. Thanks, Charrison, Squisher, etc, for feeding my brain tonight.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: charrison
I also think there are far smarter ways to acheive lower emmissions than kyoto.

Yep. Nothing at all seems to be working quite well.

 

[everman]

Well of course people have some impact but it's hard to tell how great it really is. Blaming any specific group of people on such a thing is not very intelligent though. But anyways, what is a good solution to the problem, such as pollution? Car manufacturers don't seem all too interested in hybrid vehicles, and there's much opposition to nuclear power so it's quite a quandry.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Jellomancer

Originally posted by: charrison
I also think there are far smarter ways to acheive lower emmissions than kyoto.

Yep. Nothing at all seems to be working quite well.

sarcasm?

 

[HappyPuppy]

In the '70's the same scientists who are proclaiming global warming now were the same ones who were crying about the end of mankind because of global cooling.

Leave it alone. Planet Earth can take care of itself.

How many of you believe that Mankind has the "right" to exist forever? Considering the age of the Univeerse we aren't even a pimple on the ass of time. If we cease to exist the cosmos will not implode.

 

[skull]

I could be totally wrong here but I was sitting here thinking. If its not a natural thing that maybe its the fact that everything we do creates heat generating electricity, running our cars, and even our electronic components put out heat and its not the pollution.

 

[Crimson]

Seems like busmaster is more interested in calling people names than debating this topic... which points to his true motives.