Compelling evidence for Global Warming?

[busmaster11]

Interesting. Some people cite articles from conservative interest groups and others propose that 20 years of warming isn't that bad... Still others feel its not fair to "preach" if they're not living the most environmentally friendly lifestyle possible.

Well, I can probably dig up an article from some far-left group that suggests the world will blow up in five years if we don't drop everything now. That doesn't make it valid.

And to Jmman, look. A warming isn't just a warming. Forests will turn to deserts, deserts will turn to forests, evergreen forests will turn to deciduous forests, ocean levels will rise, the gulf stream will alter course, changing fish speicies and populations, droughts and floods will become more erratic, sea levels will rise, engulfing or threatening many cities, and the climate will become more unredictable.

And if my pastor feels the need to be completely sinless before he can preach, we would have no pastor at our church.

Like I said. Conservatives can continue to stick their heads in the sand and follow President Shrub's lead. I never claim to know what exactly will happen to the environment in the future, but I do know that we as a country and as a planet have been very negligent of the resources we've been blessed with, and that can only have a negative influence, and this article is just one of many pouring in that hints at that. If we sit around till something more tangible affects us in our own backyard, I hope you guys consider it a moral victory to have succeeded in loligagging till the last minute.

 

[IGBT]

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[tcsenter]

For those of you with an open mind. Conservatives, tree-bashers, loggers, etc. - please, continue to dismiss, as you've always done...

Yep, its time to stop those evil loggers from cutting down trees so people can live in homes. EVIL MUTHERS!

My other point: There is a noticeable impact on the environment caused by man, and the evidence is increasing. At some point it will overcome the natural fluctuations in the climate such that even those of us with our heads buried in the sand will notice the trend. If that point ever comes, trust me - I won't be here celebrating, saying I told you so.

Few people dispute that the globe is 'warming', it is the cause that is subject to debate. But moreover, 5.5 billion people cannot live on a planet the size of earth WITHOUT making a detrimental environmental impact, not even if they all lived in dung huts and picked lice out of each other's body hair.

When the environmentalists give up their posh homes in upscale Bay Area neighborhoods, move into dung huts, urinate on each other to control parasites, stop driving SUV's into Berkeley, toss their computers and television out the window, I'll be right behind them...but believe you me it will not be a moment before.

 

[Sid59]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK
The world is warming. That is fact.
The question is "How much is human influence playing upon it?"
(Personally, I believe we play a fairly large part, but I'm not going to preach since I haven't done anything to deserve to)

And now please answer, what have you done to help "save" the environment?
Do you have a hybrid/electric vehicle?
Do you always drive carpool or mass transit?
Do you donate any money or time to research or conservation efforts?
Do you refuse to buy gasoline and support polluting business?

It's ironic how all the people crying about global warming and pollution are the same people contributing to the problem. Stop preaching people please.

Own a car but don't drive.
Yeah. I use mass transit and carpool.
Yes. planting new trees and plants and campus clean-up.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK
The world is warming. That is fact.
The question is "How much is human influence playing upon it?"
(Personally, I believe we play a fairly large part, but I'm not going to preach since I haven't done anything to deserve to)

And now please answer, what have you done to help "save" the environment?

Do you have a hybrid/electric vehicle? No. And I won't be getting one either, until they are actually affordable to anyone other than just Hollywood people and Bill Gates.
Do you always drive carpool or mass transit? No.
Do you donate any money or time to research or conservation efforts? No.
Do you refuse to buy gasoline and support polluting business?... No, I'll buy gasoline if I need it.

Overall, if something is more cost efficient, I'll get it (incandescent socket to compact fluorescent bulb converter things, for example). If it helps the environment at the same time, fine. But I'm not going to let myself be ripped off buying some recycled products that cost 100X more than what a non-recycled version costs.

 

[jjones]

Natural variability may be behind the changes, but human activity might also be to blame, scientists said.

A new five-year research plan presented this week by scientists and government officials meeting in Washington, D.C., asserts that people clearly are agents of environmental change, though it is still unclear how much human activity contributes.

Greenland is experiencing a warm spell unseen since the 1930s. Satellite data show the greatest area of melt across its mammoth ice sheet in 24 years of measurements occurred this year.

In September, sea ice extent was 4 percent lower that that seen in any previous September since monitoring began in 1978.

Changes in Arctic atmospheric and marine circulation patterns are partly responsible, but depletion of the ozone layer due to pollution may also play a role, Serreze said.

Not enough empirical data. For something of this magnitude we need studies that go further back than 25 years. One constant of Earth is its ever changing environment and studies from a few years will not convince me that man plays a significant role. Are these patterns part of a cyclical change? No one knows. Ice ages have come and gone without any impact from mankind whatsoever.

I'm all for less pollution and cleaner air but I'm not going to run around claiming the sky is falling based upon a view that is one-eyed and myopic at best.

 

[IGBT]

No doubt about it. Global cooling/warming drones are falling in line behind the last bastion of socialism. The environmental movement. They are out to disrupt and dismantle all aspects of capitalism via any ecological claim they can hallucinate. These people need to be tossed out of academic environments and tax payer funded agencies. Let them go to Cuba and pretend to be environmentalists.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: IGBT
No doubt about it. Global cooling/warming drones are falling in line behind the last bastion of socialism. The environmental movement. They are out to disrupt and dismantle all aspects of capitalism via any ecological claim they can hallucinate. These people need to be tossed out of academic environments and tax payer funded agencies. Let them go to Cuba and pretend to be environmentalists.

That is such claptrap! No one is trying to "dismantle Capitalism" it is not a Socialist conspiracy. Europe has already made many of the necessary changes and they have not killed Capitalism nor have they turned into a bunch of Commies. Canada and the US can whine all we want, but the fact is while Europe began implementing Kyoto's CO2 reduction goals years ago, we sat back and let our CO2 emmissions increase, because we are idiots.

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: IGBT
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This article lost any ounce of credibility it had with the following:
"The current power supply problems in California are a perfect example. They are not a consequence of true deregulation, but of environmental and anti-free market restrictions on power production. This is the same thing proposed in Kyoto, and the same thing still promoted by some Washington leaders. "

Bzzzzz....WRONG!!
Turns out the the former power supply problems in Cali had nothing to do with environmental and anti-free market restrictions (funny how this was the line used by the current administration) and had everything to do with true degregulation and broke (in every sense of the word) corporations like Enron.

 

[JellyBaby]

Let them go to Cuba and pretend to be environmentalists.

I'm reading Cuba's health care system is pretty bad. Send them to Canada instead.

 

[dmcowen674]

Hey we agree on something TSC.

Unless you live on the water 99.9% of the population couldn't possibly notice the rise in the Ocean water level. It's really evident in places like Italy, Holland and New Orleans.

 

[IGBT]

Kyoto also fails to reccognise that Canada, North/South America are C02 sinks.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: IGBT
Kyoto also fails to reccognise that Canada, North/South America are C02 sinks.

The concept of CO2 sinks is somewhat vague and not really understood as yet. Certain plant types actually emit more CO2 than they absorb, making the CO2 sink concept one that is not reliable. In time perhaps our understanding will allow such a concept to be accepted, but to err on the side of caution until then is the best course.

 

[Caanon]

With the exception of sunlight hitting the earth(which is always coming in)....everything is about balance.

Ignoring all other pollutants and just consider CO2 only for a minute.

Sources for CO2:Mainly breathing(respriration) and Combustion(burning...wood...fossil fuels etc)

What gets rid of CO2 and makes oxygen: Plants(photosynthesis).....especially forests, rainforests

Human population has grown to 6 billion when in most of our history it was much less than 1 billion.

We burn fuels for various different purposes

And what I think is the worst part we destroy the plants that cycle CO2 back to oxygen.
People in south america will burn down the rainforest, plant crops for a couple years then move on and burn more and plant again.
(the soil doesn't have much in way of nutrients its all in the trees and plants which they just burn)

Considering just those things...don't you think its possible Co2 levels would rise? (CO2 traps heat that would normally reflect back into space)
The longer those things go on, the worse it would get.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: IGBT
No doubt about it. Global cooling/warming drones are falling in line behind the last bastion of socialism. The environmental movement. They are out to disrupt and dismantle all aspects of capitalism via any ecological claim they can hallucinate. These people need to be tossed out of academic environments and tax payer funded agencies. Let them go to Cuba and pretend to be environmentalists.

That is such claptrap! No one is trying to "dismantle Capitalism" it is not a Socialist conspiracy. Europe has already made many of the necessary changes and they have not killed Capitalism nor have they turned into a bunch of Commies. Canada and the US can whine all we want, but the fact is while Europe began implementing Kyoto's CO2 reduction goals years ago, we sat back and let our CO2 emmissions increase, because we are idiots.

Yeah, I wanted to reply to IGBT but it was just too much paranoid conservative crap for me to handle at once...