Competition Professional Gaming Computer

[lehtv]

Why go GTX 970 SLI when you can go 980 SLI?

Because it seems to me that while the OP does have a large budget, he is also conscious about performance for the money, hence he picked a used PSU and a 4770K instead of 4790K. Perhaps he picked the 980 because he thought it'd be worth the money compared to a 970, or he hadn't even considered 970 SLI.

 

[OlyAR15]

Because it seems to me that while the OP does have a large budget, he is also conscious about performance for the money, hence he picked a used PSU and a 4770K instead of 4790K. Perhaps he picked the 980 because he thought it'd be worth the money compared to a 970, or he hadn't even considered 970 SLI.

IMO, going with a single fast card is better than going with 2 slower cards, since you will be dependent on SLI to always work. If a particular game has poor SLI support, then you are stuck with the performance of a single 970. Therefore, if you are thinking of going SLI, why not get 2 of the fastest cards? That way, if the game has good SLI support, then you have an excellent chance of running the game at the highest detail settings, especially on a 2560x1440x144Hz display. And if the game happens to not have good SLI support, you still fall back to the current fastest single GPU card available.

Price is the only issue, and as long as one can afford it, why not?

 

[mnewsham]

Price is the only issue, and as long as one can afford it, why not?

The performance to price difference between the 970 and 980 is just beyond stupid. If you have money to throw at the wall then I guess go ahead, but its highly unlikely the GTX980 will be the difference between unplayable framerates and playable framrates compared to a GTX 970. In almost any situation a single GTX 970 wouldnt work, it is highly unlikely the 980 would be a noticeable improvement, and at least in my opinion wouldn't be worth the extra $.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1355?vs=1351

The performance difference in most scenarios is what, 10-15%?
So for 10-15% more performance (which in most cases wont mean the difference between playable and unplaybale fps) is going to cost a LOT of money. The GTX 970 is $329.99. The cheapest GTX 980 is $549.99 a difference of $220. That is 60% the cost of another GTX 970. So you can get two GTX 970s for $660. $110 more than a SINGLE GTX 980 and you have the potential for WAY more GPU power. And if the game doesnt support SLI, you still are only 10-15% less performance than the GTX 980, but you only spent $110 more than a single GTX 980 and in games that DO support SLI, you will destroy a single GTX 980.

And dual GTX 980s is just dumb, that's $1100 for at the best case scenario 20% more performance than two GTX 970s at $660. It just makes very little sense, even if you have the money.

 

[lehtv]

If a particular game has poor SLI support, then you are stuck with the performance of a single 970.

Which is completely fine at 85-90% of the performance of a 980. If the game doesn't support SLI properly, it's probably not too tough to run in the first place, and you won't miss those 10-15%.

Price is the only issue, and as long as one can afford it, why not?

It seems to me the OP is not interested in overspending, which rules out 980 SLI.

 

[OlyAR15]

yeah, you don't need a 980 SLI. You also don't need a ROG Swift monitor, since a 1080p 144Hz monitor is sufficient. But since he bought a Swift, sounds to me like he does want performance. Thing is, just because you don't need the extra 15% fps, doesn't mean that it sure is nice to have. Whether you can justify the extra money is up to you. All I'm saying is that the combo of a fast CPU, fast video cards in SLI, and the ROG Swift monitor is absolutely awesome for gaming. Yes it's expensive, yes it's a luxury, and you can certainly make do with less. But if you can afford it and you are really into games, then it may be worth it. And since the OP never gave an actual budget, it is hard to say whether it is worth it to him. Ultimately it will be his decision.

 

[lehtv]

Yeah, I agree with all of that.

 

[eXg. p1nghax]

Hey guys.. I appreciate all the feedback and the banter as well It really does put things into perspective. Honestly, I knew that I didn't necessarily need a 1000W powersupply, however it was $75. I figured I couldn't pass up a good bargain for something that is brand new. The dude literally took it out of the box and was like... yeah, don't like the color and immediately threw it on craigs.

Now, as far as the whole debate with the GPU's first, I actually didn't go splurge on the classified EVGA, I just got the superclocked edition, which was a bit cheaper and it was retailed at $560 and through a buddy at Best Buy he managed to provide me with another discount for it, and on top of that I had a gift card for something like $96 dollars. I think all in total I paid more closer to $3 something for a card that should have bested me near $600. So that is why I went all out with that.

- The idea that I might be able to later on in the future as prices drop, get another 980 and SLI it up when there is more support in games for them, then I figured that was the overall rational decision to make to future proof the machine. 1000W + Cheap 980 + possible 2nd 980 in the future on the cheap.

- The Cpu I'm still dancing around about. I never even unboxed the thing so, and at the time I bought it that was the one thing I actually paid full price for because the 4790K wasn't even out yet. So now you guys have me debating to return that thing and beast out on the higher end one. Assuming my Asrock Board Z97 supports that chipset. I think, but I have to double check. I would assume it would otherwise you guys wouldn't have mentioned it.

I have been really lucky where I haven't for one thing other than the Proc paid full price for any of the components in this build. When I said Best performance on the planet for basement price I meant it.

- What I want is a No Excuses scenario. I want to be able to know in my head that I have the best of the best possible gear out there to perform at my best when I go to compete. Might sound stupid, but I come from a pro soccer background so just how my head works. From there, I want to train on the rest and see where it goes. If nothing I get to have fun with the challenge and get to meet a bunch of new pretty awesome helpful peeps here. So I def appreciate the input, sincerely.

Any Ideas what the Best 4970K runs these days? I think the 4770 was around 3-400 or something when I bought that.

Also, would anyone know where I could find a mousepad just like the old fat pads from everglide. ?

Best,

p1ng

 

[mfenn]

PCPartPicker is a good resource for comparing prices on particular parts. They don't show all parts, so sometimes you can miss things when looking at a range of items, but their price data on individual items is good.

Here's their i7 4790K page. It looks like SuperBiiz has the best online price right now (MicroCenter price is in-store only). IMHO, if you're past the return window on your i7 4770K, then I would just keep it. If you can still return it for a full refund, then it's fine to exchange it.

 

[DigDog]

sorry i did not reply earlier.
i have been debating this for some time now; windows 8 (for me and several other people, one of which i just spoke to this very day) has notable input lag on the mouse. this also happens ingame.

i have heard the following: "8.1 has no lag"; "my windows 8 has no lag";
i have also heard (and experienced) "my mouse is extremely laggy in W8". there are mouse lag fixes around and it was discussed on MS forums as well.

i just assumed that the OP might not be as tech savvy as to realize something is up with his mouse if this were to happen to him. i am not implying that 100% sure it would, but i know this *does* happen.

MS also put a forced polling rate on the USB to save power, and some people might not know and disable this. apparently, this is gone as well in the new update.

but just to be safe, i recommended W7 since the only real change is a DX code which isn't even being used right now. (and W7 doesnt come with metro)

 

[eXg. p1nghax]

yeah I hear you guys with that. I will ask a few of my friends as well. I'm sure that someone like Stermy, or another friend of mine might know. as well. I def again appreciate the input. In the meantime, I have decided to go and purchase a 4790 k chip just because I would like to see if I can push this to a pretty high overclock with liquid cooling and also that means I have a 4770 k chip just sitting around the house and I haven't even opened it out of the box yet. Any one want it? If so hit me up, $200 and its yours. Discounted since you guys have been very helpful.

Thanks again,.

Mark

If you're looking to sell your CPU on these forums, then you should make a post in the For Sale/Trade section. We don't allow sales outside of that section because For Sale/Trade is monitored more strictly than other sections. It unfortunately has to be this way due to the large number of scammers out there. Note that I am in no way suggesting that you're a scammer, it's just that the rules have to apply evenly to everybody.

mfenn
General Hardware Moderator
http://forums.anandtech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19

 

[lehtv]

You're friends with Stermy? Awesome. I've spoken with him online a few times, and played against him in a Quake Live tournament... nearly beat him too, but he was out of shape . He was the guy to watch when he was active in QL LAN tournaments, loved his playstyle.

Are you this guy? http://www.qlranks.com/duel/player/p1nghax

 

[schmuckley]

RAM latency and speed factor heavily.
Also Cache speed.
You did good with the 1ms monitor.

 

[lehtv]

RAM latency and speed factor heavily.

Into what, and how?

 

[schmuckley]

lower latency=faster response time
Faster RAM=more fps.

 

[mnewsham]

lower latency=faster response time
Faster RAM=more fps.

Lol, no. Just no...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7364/memory-scaling-on-haswell/7

Read that for more information into why you're just plain wrong for gaming.

Does faster RAM matter in some scenarios? Sure, but it isn't gaming. In the gaming tests moving from the slowest RAM to the fastest saw MAYBE 2FPS difference, while potentially costing a LOT more money.

 

[schmuckley]

Lol, no. Just no...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7364/memory-scaling-on-haswell/7

Read that for more information into why you're just plain wrong for gaming.

Does faster RAM matter in some scenarios? Sure, but it isn't gaming. In the gaming tests moving from the slowest RAM to the fastest saw MAYBE 2FPS difference, while potentially costing a LOT more money.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1438222/battlefield-4-ram-memory-benchmark/0_100

http://www.purepc.pl/pamieci_ram/ja...re_i5_haswell_test_ddr3_13332400_mhz?page=0,0

Game links start on page 8

Looks like more than 2fps to me.

..With all due respect to Mr. Cutress's tests.

 

[lehtv]

URL]http://www.purepc.pl/pamieci_ram/jakie_pamieci_ddr3_do_core_i5_haswell_test_ddr3_13332400_mhz?page=0,0[/URL]

Interesting. It'd be nice if the site explained its testing methodology and how each game benchmark was run. I could then try to replicate their results as I have similar hardware (4690K ~ 3770K, 780 Ti ~ 970, 2133MHz CL11 RAM that I can downclock to 1600MHz CL9).

EDIT: Xbit Labs tested Haswell memory scaling as well: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/haswell-ddr3_7.html#sect0
Practically zero difference in Batman: AO, Hitman: Absolution, and Metro: LL... but 4 fps difference between 2133 CL11 and 1600 CL9 in Thief.

 

[mnewsham]

http://www.overclock.net/t/1438222/battlefield-4-ram-memory-benchmark/0_100

I didnt bother with the 2nd link because google translate wasn't much help, but the first link just proves my point really. The only instance where faster RAM matters is if you lower the graphics low enough that your GPU is barely being used. at 1080p Ultra settings in BF4, the differnce between 2133Mhz and 1333Mhz is like 2%.

If you go down to 1280x800 or something, then you might see a 20% increase in performance, but who the hell plays at 1280x800? If you can get 60FPS at 1080p Ultra, that's what you will be playing, so what does it matter if you can get 20% increase in performance at lower resolution by spending twice as much on your RAM?

 

[mfenn]

I didnt bother with the 2nd link because google translate wasn't much help, but the first link just proves my point really. The only instance where faster RAM matters is if you lower the graphics low enough that your GPU is barely being used. at 1080p Ultra settings in BF4, the differnce between 2133Mhz and 1333Mhz is like 2%.

If you go down to 1280x800 or something, then you might see a 20% increase in performance, but who the hell plays at 1280x800? If you can get 60FPS at 1080p Ultra, that's what you will be playing, so what does it matter if you can get 20% increase in performance at lower resolution by spending twice as much on your RAM?

:thumbsup: Agree.

While you can contrive a situation where you're memory bottlenecked when playing a particular game on a discrete GPU, it's just that: contrived. In a realistic scenario as shown in Anandtech's and Xbit Lab's articles.

So if you want to build the ultimate "Battlefield 4 at all low" rig, then by all means get fast RAM. If you want to get a PC for playing many different games at high/ultra, then you're not efficiently spending your money by buying fast RAM.

 

[schmuckley]

I didnt bother with the 2nd link because google translate wasn't much help, but the first link just proves my point really. The only instance where faster RAM matters is if you lower the graphics low enough that your GPU is barely being used. at 1080p Ultra settings in BF4, the differnce between 2133Mhz and 1333Mhz is like 2%.

If you go down to 1280x800 or something, then you might see a 20% increase in performance, but who the hell plays at 1280x800? If you can get 60FPS at 1080p Ultra, that's what you will be playing, so what does it matter if you can get 20% increase in performance at lower resolution by spending twice as much on your RAM?

All the gaming tests in the 2nd link were 1080P and Ultra.
:awe:


ex:http://www.purepc.pl/pamieci_ram/ja...re_i5_haswell_test_ddr3_13332400_mhz?page=0,8


Approx 30% higher max fps,Approx 10% on min fps @ 1080P Ultra

 

[eXg. p1nghax]

lehtv,

Hey... yes that is me on the quake live ranks page. I know personally Stermy and Fatal1ty. I hung out with Jonathan a number of times and we exchange now emails from time to time. I have played 1v1 fps since well back from the Q3 Point release in college where I was using a 100 MB Zip Disk to hack the school computers to let me play on a good connect.

I played PK, Doom3, Quake 1, 2, 3arena, Q4, Quake live. etc etc.. pretty much any FPS I have played. I even messed around in the unreal scene for a little while. The one thing I really never had the chance to do was get to some of these lan tournaments because I was also a aspiring pro soccer player which turned into my profession to this day, and now I also coach and run a sports complex while still playing for fun with a semi pro team.

I got on with Stermy due to that as well, since he was a big soccer player growing up, but he lacked the size to be able to play at that level and gaming took off early for him. He has helped me within the last few months with getting a good config down to play online.

The main thing I wish I could have had was that training or expert advise on a regular from these type of players. Back when Fat lanned with his buds he would swear them to keep secret all of what they did behind closed doors.

I wanted to on my own now since I have some more time and It was always a fun thing growing up is to give it a try to see what it takes to really play at that level.

So I'm starting with the computer. I don't want any excuses, so this is why I am piecing something together that will give me exactly that. I know I don't need 1000W PSU or a 980 GPU, but I want it so its a done deal.

I also thought maybe this would be pretty cool for a twitch stream. Kinda like what it takes to get there kinda thing. who knows.

Yeah, if you have been able to play him at that level, then I would def be interested in getting games in with you if you are up for some. I appreciate all of the advise you have given regarding the build also.

Anyways.

Mark

 

[mnewsham]

twitch stream

This rig will be good enough for twitch streaming, but probably not full 1080p 60FPS while gaming at the same time. Some of the bigger twitch streamers actually use 2 PCs, one for capture and stream, the other for the actual gaming. Streaming to twitch takes a decent bit of CPU time.

 

[eXg. p1nghax]

Yeah I had thought about that. I have a separate Dual Core Rig with Dual GTX 7800's from back in the day that I was thinking of dedicating to streaming only... The only other issue with streaming is internet connect... I imagine you are going to need a top tier internet connect to deal with that.

So hopefully I have that sorted... I still have some hardware to stream so that won't be up for a little bit. However that is the goal to set something up like that.

I might also use my Alienware Laptop with Dual 260's to do that as well in the second location I plan on being.

So we will see.

First thing is first I have to build this thing.

Now onto Cooling.. I need a Cooler so that I can Overclock the BaJesus out of this 4770K... What is the best Closed Loop Cooler on the market today?

Reason I am asking about that, is I do plan on using the Zalman Fatal1ty Case, I just plan on modifying it quite a bit to have better cooling performance.

Also, SSD'd Are there some really good ones out there that have at least 480 - 500 Gig without breaking the bank? I think besides that, I am looking at maybe a Blu Ray Burner from Asus msot likely, and possible Drive Bay Cooling also.

Dunno.

Would it be worth Going Liquid on the EVGA GPU also? or not really.

Thanks,


Mark

 

[eXg. p1nghax]

Also... how can I find out what the fastest Memory is for this Board. I'm thinking of going for a no frills Corsair Vengeance setup... Just wanted to know what to get.

 

[Ken g6]

Most games don't seem to benefit from faster RAM at standard resolutions, but a few now seem to.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/haswell-ddr3_7.html

Also:

EDIT: Regarding the topic at hand, it turns out that having a bleeding edge rig is not a requirement to be a top-tier competitor. If you look at most of the top eSports guys (and some girls), they play on pretty average machines unless they are sponsored, and then they use their sponsor's gear, no matter if it's good or not. They all turn the graphics down to minimum anyway and most popular eSports games have very low requirements to begin with.

And when the graphics are turned down low the RAM seems to matter more.