Computer Makers Sued Over Hard-Drive Size Claims

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Well thats something I already knew, it's marketing like anything else is. It's pretty common knowledge (to entuisiest anyway) that a 80Gigger will be around 74Gb.
 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
2
0
WTF. Are these people morons? I hope they publish the names, so these people can be banned from ever owning anything more electronically complicated than a nosehair trimmer.

- M4H
 

fredtam

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
5,694
2
76
Thats stupid. It would be a problem if one HD maker was doing it to make their drive look bigger than a competitors but that is the standard all hard drives measured by.
 

dexvx

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2000
3,899
0
0
Too bad math is not on their side.

Giga = 1e9 or 1 billion. A 80GB harddisk is exactly 80,000,000,000 bytes.
If it was a 80GiB harddisk, that would be 2^30 * 80 bytes.

I hope to god they dont sue memory makers, because a 512MB stick is actually a 512MiB stick.
 

thatsright

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
3,004
3
81
Back in May, I bought a WD SE 120G 8MB Cache HD for $80 @ BB during a one day sale (SCHWEET!). I PAID for 120GB DAMMIT!! I 'got' 113GB. But this lawsuit may spurn HD makers to drop the idiotic Decimal notation and go with the real world Binary notation that all of us 'see' when it comes to the Operating system. BTW, I think that this lawsuit is another one of those 'McDonald's I'm-Fat-So-I'm-Suing-You' lawsuits. The judge will probably throw it out.

BTW#2, this thread should really be in OT.

Just my $0.02
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
Originally posted by: thatsright
Back in May, I bought a WD SE 120G 8MB Cache HD for $80 @ BB during a one day sale (SCHWEET!). I PAID for 120GB DAMMIT!! I 'got' 113GB. But this lawsuit may spurn HD makers to drop the idiotic Decimal notation and go with the real world Binary notation that all of us 'see' when it comes to the Operating system. BTW, I think that this lawsuit is another one of those 'McDonald's I'm-Fat-So-I'm-Suing-You' lawsuits. The judge will probably throw it out.

BTW#2, this thread should really be in OT.

Just my $0.02

the computer guys got it wrong. the REAL standard of gigabyte is 1 billion bytes. not 1073747824 bytes. in fact all the manufacturers even state what a REAL gigabyte is. the hard drive makers are right, the computer user AND the operating system are wrong. if this thing isn't tossed by the judge i'll be amazed.
 

vegetation

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2001
4,270
2
0
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
WTF. Are these people morons? I hope they publish the names, so these people can be banned from ever owning anything more electronically complicated than a nosehair trimmer.

- M4H

Agreed, these people are probably the same ones who go buying things on ebay, using it for a week, throwing it around like a ball, then issue a chargeback to the seller. There should be a national consumer sales banned list for fools like these.

 

Blastman

Golden Member
Oct 21, 1999
1,758
0
76
Originally posted by: ElFenix
the computer guys got it wrong. the REAL standard of gigabyte is 1 billion bytes. not 1073747824 bytes. in fact all the manufacturers even state what a REAL gigabyte is. the hard drive makers are right, the computer user AND the operating system are wrong. if this thing isn't tossed by the judge i'll be amazed.

Exactly.

It?s Microsoft that need to update their operating system to reflect GB = 1,000,000,000.

All international standards say a kilobyte is 1000 bytes ? not 1024. Kilo- is a Greek prefix meaning 1000 ? not 1024. Likewise a MB would be = 1,000,000 and so on. It seems to me that calling a kilobyte 1024 bytes is a leftover dinosaur from the past because memory was made in 256, 512, 1024 ? etc. chunks ? and 1024 was ? "about" ? a 1000, ? so we used an easier and rough estimation that was not precisely correct.. It's a redefinition that I think needs to be dropped. 1000=1000 whether your counting in binary, hex or whatever. So what if it doesn't make for nice even numbers in binary.

If I say I have 6,400,000,000 bytes ? is that 6.4GB or 5.96GB or even 6,103.5MB???? The translation is clumsy if I use the "computer" conventions and wrong if I stick to the technically proper usage of GB. If I write it out as 6,400,000,000 bytes ?well it's 6,400,000,000 bytes. But if I abbreviate it, it's all of sudden it's 5.96GB? The common usage of the term seems to be changing as evidenced by disk drive manufactures.
 

Viper96720

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2002
4,390
0
0
LOL shouldn't their lawsuit be against the hard drive makers and not the pc makers? I never knew Dell, HP, Gateway etc.... made hard drives.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
Originally posted by: Viper96720
LOL shouldn't their lawsuit be against the hard drive makers and not the pc makers? I never knew Dell, HP, Gateway etc.... made hard drives.

HDD makers probably have less money. maybe the OEMs don't explain what they mean by GB either?
hmmm dell
Gigabyte
A unit of data measurement equal to 1 billion bytes or 1 thousand megabytes (MB).
 

madthumbs

Banned
Oct 1, 2000
2,680
0
0
I think the issue with audio equipment is more worth while. Speakers used to be rated my nominal watts, and now are rated for peak. Is there a clear cut way of testing peak, and how do we know what method was used to rate certain speakers? HD's should be sized by their binary capacities, but it seems kinda late for the issue. It seems simple enough to just put something like 160GB (140 actual) in the description, but this would have to be enforced for all brands.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
Originally posted by: madthumbs
I think the issue with audio equipment is more worth while. Speakers used to be rated my nominal watts, and now are rated for peak. Is there a clear cut way of testing peak, and how do we know what method was used to rate certain speakers? HD's should be sized by their binary capacities, but it seems kinda late for the issue. It seems simple enough to just put something like 160GB (140 actual) in the description, but this would have to be enforced for all brands.

because its NOT 140 "actual." its 160 actual. the problem is the OS maker passing off a GiB as a GB.

and watts are not something that should be compared when looking at speakers, because volume is a function of more than just watts.
 

fredtam

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
5,694
2
76
Exactly. I they wouldn't have decided 1024 was close enough to 1000 lets call it a kilobyte we woukdn't have been in this situation.
 

sniperruff

Lifer
Apr 17, 2002
11,644
2
0
they have no case in doing so since dell's catelog's clearly says the windows/HD manufacturer rating of 1 gig

i pity the fool who picked up this case. what a waste of money
 

randumb

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2003
2,324
0
0
What idiots. If they read the freaking label on hard drives, it says 1GB = 1,000,000,000 Bytes.
 

bjc112

Lifer
Dec 23, 2000
11,460
0
76
Originally posted by: randumb
What idiots. If they read the freaking label on hard drives, it says 1GB = 1,000,000,000 Bytes.

Ya, that's what i was just going to say.. It's listed for crying out loud.
 

madthumbs

Banned
Oct 1, 2000
2,680
0
0
Originally posted by: randumb
What idiots. If they read the freaking label on hard drives, it says 1GB = 1,000,000,000 Bytes.


It's not the HD manufacturers getting sued here is it? it's the PC/ Laptop manufactureres that don't include the "1GB = 1,000,000,000 Bytes" lable.

>>and watts are not something that should be compared when looking at speakers, because volume is a function of more than just watts.<<

-True, and the purity of the signal has a lot to do with how much the speakers can handle. The point was that there should be a standardized way of rating speakers which there obviously isn't.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
On the topic of Bits and Bytes...

How big is terabyte?

How come bandwidth is usally measured in MegaBits and GigaBits? Whats the size of a Megabit and a Gigabit?

So a 40GB Hard Drive is really 40,000,000,000 Bytes?

So... a KiloByte is 1024 Bytes

40,000,000,000 / 1024 = 39062500

A Megabyte is 1024 KiloBytes...

39062500 / 1024 = 38146.97265625

Does this mean a Gigabyte is really 1024 Megabytes....

I confused myself...

 

grrl

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
6,204
1
0
This is why we need a national holiday declaring open season on lawyers for one day a year.
 

Lyfer

Diamond Member
May 28, 2003
5,842
2
81
They should also sue for ATA100/133 drives not perfoming at these speeds.
 

Aboroth

Senior member
Feb 16, 2000
723
0
0
"Giga" and "Mega" have ALWAYS meant something else in the computer world, and probably will for a very long time. They are technical terms specific to computer systems. It was understood and accepted until hard drive manufacturers wanted to inflate their hard drive sizes and trick people into thinking their hard drives were bigger than they actually were.

Hard drive manufacturers then had to justify their lying, and if I remember correctly, Gibi and Mebi didn't even exist until 1998, long after their number games started. Also FYI, those prefixes are IEC, not SI.

They didn't do anybody any favors. All they did was add confusion and lots of posts in forums from newbies like, "Where did all my hard drive space go???", and conflicts with countless pages of already written documentation.

I'm not saying that this lawsuit isn't stupid, however. They aren't even suing the hard drive manufacturers.
 
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