Computer VS Human Brain

[dunno99]

Oh, btw, the part about Deep Blue storing the 14 pieces thing...it's actually all permutations of the last 5 moves to game end (but yeah, you had the right idea...it memorized a lot of stuff).

 

[the splat in the hat]

Originally posted by: Sparky19692
Being a simple robotics engineer I always find this subject simply amazing!
How ignorant and simplistic people become when comparing these two.
All of us sit hear marveling at a simple and logical piece of hardware at the same time what is your minding doing?
Well your breathing air how many muscles and billions of calculations does your brain do to accomplish that.
If your muscles do not contract properly you lose the rhythm and ca no longer breath. Hence death. Glad Bill gates is not involved here?

Your are reaaading, waht is that? How can your eyes amd brian inturprate this?

Wait a minute I can walk. Do you know that when you take your first step on a stairway yes that is singular,
your brain recalculates every proceeding step for height and width so you don?t have to fall on your face like
you did when you where 2 years old. What about climbing over that snow bank,
in front of my car with the ice in front of it.

I just wish I could get my Darn furnace to keep the house at 72.75°F no matter what.

You mean you can type??? Even after some one has moved the keyboard WOW

This list goes on forever people have NO appreciation for how vastly complex and adaptable the human mind
is until they try to replace it with robotics/computers.
Will computers ever get there maybe Never is a long time.

How many times did you blink during this??? Think about it.

LOL !

WHAT HE SAID !

 

[Cooler]

Originally posted by: concreteDonkey
I think computers have got themselves mixed up, if they just copied nature they'd be really good!

Lets compare a computer with a bee hive:

A computer has a CPU which runs the show : The hive has a queen

A computer has peripherals which do it's bidding : The hive has workers, drones, bouncers etc

The CPU works really hard and the peripherals work relatively slow : The queen sits on her arse all day eating the best food while the bees work their arses off

Computers need complex protocols and lots of 'handshaking' to communicate : The bees dance to tell each other where the flowers are

Ok so I don't really know where I was going with that, but bees use space more efficiently than us humans(the honeycomb is made of hexagons which fill spaces most efficiently) and we design computers.

So should we let bees design computers? Or is the human brain like a hive? What was the question again?

For as second i was think you were comareing a computer to starcraft.

 

[PandaBear]

Computer can do repeatative calculation very well, and everytime calculation is digital (fixed). Human brain is analog and can make mistakes due to bias (Y(homogeneous) for electrical engineers) but learn and adapt extremely well (Y(homogeneous) again), this is something that computer can't match yet.

Remember, there is no such thing as artificial intelligence, because there is no such thing as intelligence.

 

[liquid51]

How about an implant that could study the genetic makup of our body. It could then use microsopic filaments to trace our neural pathways throughout the entire brain and body. When a signal is produced, these filaments could carry the impulse at a speed 10-15 times faster than our existing neural pathways. We'd then have to worry about heat production ("Help! I just bought the new Zalman SkullHSF-10k, and I'm not sure I installed it properly; my temps are reaching 90C and I have a real bad headache!!!").
This doesn't solve the problem of raw data crunching capability, but it would vastly improve our thought processing speed.

It could also be used to correct neurological defecits in those patients with a debilitating disease or a para/quadriplegic.

Also, these implants could give us concious access to our subconcious operations. Imagine getting seasick. You begin to feel nauseous. So you close your eyes, access the operation controlling your vomit reflex, and temporarily disable the reflex. Open your eyes and feel fine.

They could also cause big problems. Think of all the posts you've read about people begging for help because they've just fried their proccessor, or broken a few pins on the cpu, or destroyed any number of other things trying to do something they haven't foggiest on. "And in todays news, brain enthusiast attempts to OC and dies as his brain boils out of his skull". (Should'a bought the Zalman...)

 

[amd200mhz]

to me cpu is for doing routine job and brain is for creative tasks

 

[klocwerk]

The way I like to think of it is this: computers can't play Go for crap.
In Go, unlike chess, you can place a piece anywhere on the board, except into a position of instant loss - like moving into check in chess. There are 361 positions on the board. That's a LOT of permutations, exponentially more than chess. The human brain, with it's massively parallel architecture, and the pattern recognition abilities drilled into us since birth, is much more adept at Go than a computer.

Ok, so you kind of need to know how to play go for that to make much sense. I'll hush now.

 

[ValkyrieofHouston]

Computers lack creativity, emotions, reasoning in the human capacity, they do not feel or sense things the way a human does or have a 6th sense or inner gut feelings. Yes, a computer can analyze and compute things faster than a human, but a human in the long run IMHO is far superior. The human brain is so advanced that scientists are still baffled to this day as to how it works and how it functions to its fullest capacity. They can't even explain the psycic abilities of some people.

 

[ForumMaster]

Just repling to an old post, actually, i don't remember where but i read somewhere that the brain has the equivilent storage area of less then
a cd. about 450MB. So i guess the brain just has a much more effcient system of storage not to mention the fact that it forgets and deletes
eventually. But to explain psycic people, this is just a thoery, but why can't the brain transmit like computers with wi-fi can? Our bodies do act sometimes like antennas and so y not? Anyway, i don't believe is that theory but i read it somewhere.

 

[liquid51]

the brain just has a really efficient file compression system... =P

 

[DanTMWTMP]

Originally posted by: ForumMaster
Just repling to an old post, actually, i don't remember where but i read somewhere that the brain has the equivilent storage area of less then
a cd. about 450MB. So i guess the brain just has a much more effcient system of storage not to mention the fact that it forgets and deletes
eventually. But to explain psycic people, this is just a thoery, but why can't the brain transmit like computers with wi-fi can? Our bodies do act sometimes like antennas and so y not? Anyway, i don't believe is that theory but i read it somewhere.

really? i've heard the opposite. Some professor I had told the class the brain has about 10 terabytes of capacity. Well, he was a psych professor, and he did tell us that he has no idea how the people who said that got to that figure, since it seems that the brain is really not understood very well still, and the way it stores information seems different.

 

[ForumMaster]

Originally posted by: liquid51
the brain just has a really efficient file compression system... =P

indefinently. just think that the brain stores smells, sights, memories, and many different things. but because of the fact the the brain is not a binary system, it can store more things with many more possible combinations of the nurochemicals which make it have a very very effeicient commpression system. to quote.

 

[Earsly]

I wish i could just install a 1gb hd in my head just to remember all the little stuff. It would help a ton ya know.

 

[YoshiSato]

By 2050 we will be able to download brains into a computer

http://theinquirer.net/?article=23416

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Originally posted by: sdifox
Think of it this way, computers are great in terms of simple tasks done billions of times. Your brain is very good at doing very complex thing, sometimes many of them, all at the same time. Also, computer can not think, we can.

Ever seen "I, Robot"?

What you say is true, about doing complex things simaltaneously. What about dual core processors and mult-processor computers?

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Originally posted by: YoshiSato
By 2050 we will be able to download brains into a computer

http://theinquirer.net/?article=23416

I'd rather be able to download my computer to my brain. :light:

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Patrick Wolf
What you say is true, about doing complex things simaltaneously. What about dual core processors and mult-processor computers?

Not really on the same scale. Even the biggest multiprocessing systems use hundreds or thousands of CPUs; essentially, your brain consists of several billion computational units (albeit very, very simple and/or specialized ones, which are not always accurate) working in parallel.

It's not easy at all to compare computational abilities between silicon and 'wetware' (so to speak). Our brains evolved over millions of years to solve particular problems, and when wired up to our nervous system, can do some pretty impressive things (particularly in regards to kinematics and spatial reasoning, which are very difficult problems for robotics applications). But even the most trivial digital computer can do math operations thousands and thousands of times faster than any human. Totally different computational models.

 

[lyssword]

you guys are kinda forgetting something tho, computers are not magical "beings" they do not have the ability to think. They are just a tool. Computer's ai is obviously only as good as the person who wrote the AI for it.

 

[YoshiSato]

Originally posted by: lyssword
you guys are kinda forgetting something tho, computers are not magical "beings" they do not have the ability to think. They are just a tool. Computer's ai is obviously only as good as the person who wrote the AI for it.

Tell that to SkyNet

 

[soccerballtux]

I think we're overestimating the power of the brain a bit. All these posts about calculating velocities and curves and such when watching an object....
as another poster said, the brain learns associatively. So when I'm focused on the soccer ball flying through the air, thinking about where I should place my head to give the ball a good header, my brain doesn't go through a set of equations involving velocity and (.5)gt^2 etc, it simply thinks "ok, previously the ball's path of flight was like this. Another time it was like this. And another time it was like this. It seems to fall in a predictable manner, so all I have to do is deal with how fast the ball is coming at me (laterally)." Using the previous memories of how the ball travelled, my brain learns (with more and more practice) what a falling ball looks like, travelling at all different speeds. I then apply that previous knowledge of what the travelling ball looked like to what its doing now, and make a guess as to where it'll land. Theres no hard computation there, its simply "fuzzy maths" involving purely visual material.

guess = visualavg(history)
possiblepathofball = interpolate(guess, present)
if pathofball != foot
history = history
else
history = history + present

Not that complicated.

 

[tuteja1986]

well someone unlock the power of our brains... average dude only uses 7% of his brain

 

[lyssword]

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html

 

[soccerballtux]

^thanks.

 

[Yeraze]

Now this is an interesting question.

Now, i don't have any technical references to back this up, so take it with a grain of salt. I am a Compute Engineer, and I've always viewed the human brain as a massive Pattern-Matching computer. Essentially it's a compute with a near-infinite storage capacity that is specifically tuned for input of massive amounts of data (Touch, Vision, Sound, Smell, Taste) and compare it against an unimaginable amount of previously stored data, and decide what to do next. Granted there are certain "Core Processes" (breathing, beating heart, etc) that run in the background that it must contend with as well, but that's not particularly interesting for a discussion of this magnitude other than the fact that it's there.

So reading? That's just a vision pattern match: See the symbols, your brain matches it against all the stuff it's ever seen before and finally recognizes that it's close to something that you were told (Vision to sound correlation) was the letter R. Amazingly enough, your brain does it hundreds of times a second when you're just reading a book. Walking? That was a long process started when you were young, where your brain flailed your appendages somewhat randomly. As time progressed, you gathered more data until your brain could start combining movements to approximate rolling.. Then crawling.. And finally walking. Each one had several failed attempts, which could be used to eliminate or further refine the patterns.

Patterns that are used often are cached for quick access, while lesser used ones (those old high-school spanish classes, for example) are still in there, but with a significantly slower access time.

In this scenario: Just what type of computer would be necessary to process this sheer quantity of data in real-time? 100Mega Pixel (100mil rods & cones in the human eye) images, 2 at a time( we have 2 eyes afterall), 30-times a second... With the vision recognition software to identify & match patterns. Plus the 44Khz stereo sound recording (ears), and who knows what for Smell & Taste.. and then the billions of touch sensors. And then, combined with the largest disk-array in existence, easily several petabytes. Given today's technology, you're probably looking at a computer the size of Earth. And that's just for the Input & Data-processing parts. You'ld need another monster computer to control the resulting "body".

 

[Cipherfaction]

really, the computer is much better then the human, but its just that a computer cannot "reason" or correct himself, well it could be it would have to be programed too. its just that the computer is better in certain ways and the human brian is aswell