Concealed carry weapon discussion

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: XNice
adairusmc, how come you waste your time? You cannot teach a child multiplication if he doesn't understand addition. Such an complex topic like gun control can never be explained to someone who doesn't understand the basics of personal freedom and responsibility.

The only way trolls leave is if they get ignored....

You are right.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Terms of service can be changed at any time without notice. The point it, we can choose to do business with anyone we like - or choose not to do business with them. If someone had a problem like that, then we can no longer provide service to them. I deny service to people for lesser reasons than that, I am just saying in that situation the customer basically is saying to me that they don't want service from us.

Never have that problem where I live though, people up here generally embrace freedom.

So what you're saying is that your business requires employees to carry firearms with them to perform their duties? Broadband requires technicians to pack heat. Is that why my service is so good?

And no, the customer is not saying to you that they don't want service - they are saying please don't enter my home with a gun!

 

[ElMonoDelMar]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Terms of service can be changed at any time without notice. The point it, we can choose to do business with anyone we like - or choose not to do business with them. If someone had a problem like that, then we can no longer provide service to them. I deny service to people for lesser reasons than that, I am just saying in that situation the customer basically is saying to me that they don't want service from us.

Never have that problem where I live though, people up here generally embrace freedom.

So what you're saying is that your business requires employees to carry firearms with them to perform their duties? Broadband requires technicians to pack heat. Is that why my service is so good?

And no, the customer is not saying to you that they don't want service - they are saying please don't enter my home with a gun!

And all he's saying is please let me enter your home (with a gun) to preform the requested service. If the customer can't get over that, then they don't get service.

Edit: And he's also said that most of the time the customer never knows. Where's the harm in that? Don't ask, don't tell...

 

[XNice]

you people took his analogy way out of proportion. and as usual just assumed the most negative circumstance of it.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Terms of service can be changed at any time without notice. The point it, we can choose to do business with anyone we like - or choose not to do business with them. If someone had a problem like that, then we can no longer provide service to them. I deny service to people for lesser reasons than that, I am just saying in that situation the customer basically is saying to me that they don't want service from us.

Never have that problem where I live though, people up here generally embrace freedom.

So what you're saying is that your business requires employees to carry firearms with them to perform their duties? Broadband requires technicians to pack heat. Is that why my service is so good?

And no, the customer is not saying to you that they don't want service - they are saying please don't enter my home with a gun!

And all he's saying is please let me enter your home (with a gun) to preform the requested service. If the customer can't get over that, then they don't get service.

That's ridiculous! The requested service doesn't require a gun! I can't see how any business would operate under such a principle.

No harm no foul if the customer doesn't know, but if they do know and you deny them service because they ask you to leave your firearm back, then you truly are more nuts than I am!!

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Terms of service can be changed at any time without notice. The point it, we can choose to do business with anyone we like - or choose not to do business with them. If someone had a problem like that, then we can no longer provide service to them. I deny service to people for lesser reasons than that, I am just saying in that situation the customer basically is saying to me that they don't want service from us.

Never have that problem where I live though, people up here generally embrace freedom.

So what you're saying is that your business requires employees to carry firearms with them to perform their duties? Broadband requires technicians to pack heat. Is that why my service is so good?

And no, the customer is not saying to you that they don't want service - they are saying please don't enter my home with a gun!

And all he's saying is please let me enter your home (with a gun) to preform the requested service. If the customer can't get over that, then they don't get service.

Edit: And he's also said that most of the time the customer never knows. Where's the harm in that? Don't ask, don't tell...

if a person ask NOT to bring a gun into the house and then the company refuses to give them service thats a bad move for the business.

they are not saying the technician can't come in. they are saying they can't bring the gun into the house. The tech does not need the gun to install the service.

I think its wrong for a company to enforce it on a homeowner.

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Terms of service can be changed at any time without notice. The point it, we can choose to do business with anyone we like - or choose not to do business with them. If someone had a problem like that, then we can no longer provide service to them. I deny service to people for lesser reasons than that, I am just saying in that situation the customer basically is saying to me that they don't want service from us.

Never have that problem where I live though, people up here generally embrace freedom.

freedom? so imposeing your right ot carry on someones PRIVATE residance is freedom?

while i think 3nf is a nutcase i do agree on this. IF someone does not want a gun in the ho use the person should respect that. To then say since i can't carry in your house we are NOT going to give you internet service is insane. from a business standpoint and one of respect.

As I said, I do not advertise the fact that I carry so they will never know. I am saying if you for some reason find out that I am, and ask me to leave or get upset - I am not coming back.

I do not tell them up front and force them to let me carry or anything, I just don't tell them and it never becomes an issue.

 

[ElMonoDelMar]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Terms of service can be changed at any time without notice. The point it, we can choose to do business with anyone we like - or choose not to do business with them. If someone had a problem like that, then we can no longer provide service to them. I deny service to people for lesser reasons than that, I am just saying in that situation the customer basically is saying to me that they don't want service from us.

Never have that problem where I live though, people up here generally embrace freedom.

So what you're saying is that your business requires employees to carry firearms with them to perform their duties? Broadband requires technicians to pack heat. Is that why my service is so good?

And no, the customer is not saying to you that they don't want service - they are saying please don't enter my home with a gun!

And all he's saying is please let me enter your home (with a gun) to preform the requested service. If the customer can't get over that, then they don't get service.

Edit: And he's also said that most of the time the customer never knows. Where's the harm in that? Don't ask, don't tell...

if a person ask NOT to bring a gun into the house and then the company refuses to give them service thats a bad move for the business.

they are not saying the technician can't come in. they are saying they can't bring the gun into the house. The tech does not need the gun to install the service.

I think its wrong for a company to enforce it on a homeowner.

I agree that it's probably not good company policy, but there's nothing illegal or immoral about it.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

I agree that it's probably not good company policy, but there's nothing illegal or immoral about it.

I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be illegal ...

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

I agree that it's probably not good company policy, but there's nothing illegal or immoral about it.

I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be illegal ...

A company is a private individual. He has the right to refuse association and thus business with anyone for any reason not connected to the civil rights bill.

Last time I checked, irrational firearmphobiocs were not included in the civil rights bill.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Terms of service can be changed at any time without notice. The point it, we can choose to do business with anyone we like - or choose not to do business with them. If someone had a problem like that, then we can no longer provide service to them. I deny service to people for lesser reasons than that, I am just saying in that situation the customer basically is saying to me that they don't want service from us.

Never have that problem where I live though, people up here generally embrace freedom.

freedom? so imposeing your right ot carry on someones PRIVATE residance is freedom?

while i think 3nf is a nutcase i do agree on this. IF someone does not want a gun in the ho use the person should respect that. To then say since i can't carry in your house we are NOT going to give you internet service is insane. from a business standpoint and one of respect.

As I said, I do not advertise the fact that I carry so they will never know. I am saying if you for some reason find out that I am, and ask me to leave or get upset - I am not coming back.

I do not tell them up front and force them to let me carry or anything, I just don't tell them and it never becomes an issue.

hmm if i was your emplolyer and found out that you were not going by what the person wished (within limits) and refuseing to go back i would fire you.

if someone ask you to not bring in a weapon into the house and you have a hissy fit and say well now they don't get a service because of it does not say a lot for your maturity or the business's .

you wan't to carry? great we need more poeple out that do. but if someone ask you to not bring in a weapon you should abide by there wishes.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

I agree that it's probably not good company policy, but there's nothing illegal or immoral about it.

I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be illegal ...

A company is a private individual. He has the right to refuse association and thus business with anyone for any reason not connected to the civil rights bill.

Last time I checked, irrational firearmphobiocs were not included in the civil rights bill.

Great - the legality issue is cleared up. I'm glad we have such a law (or lack of) in place.

But it isn't being about a firearmphobic - it's about respecting my wishes to NOT ENTER MY RESIDENCE with a firearm!

Go back to selling sandwiches ...

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: 3NF

I'll continue to do and say what I want - the only way you're going to stop me is to shoot me with your gun!

And we will continue to think that you are ignorant.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

I agree that it's probably not good company policy, but there's nothing illegal or immoral about it.

I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be illegal ...

A company is a private individual. He has the right to refuse association and thus business with anyone for any reason not connected to the civil rights bill.

Last time I checked, irrational firearmphobiocs were not included in the civil rights bill.

Great - the legality issue is cleared up. I'm glad we have such a law (or lack of) in place.

But it isn't being about a firearmphobic - it's about respecting my wishes to NOT ENTER MY RESIDENCE with a firearm!

Go back to selling sandwiches ...

You have that wish because of your irrational fear of firearms.

You wish them not to enter, then they wish not to do business with you. Isn't that easy?

BTW, most CCW folks will never tell you they are carrying. So I suggest you place a large sign on the front of your house declaring that your home is free of firearms and no one is allowed to enter carrying one.

Meanwhile, you can try to insult me with sandwich comments... but I hire people like you to make my sandwiches in over a dozen stores that my partner and I own.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Amused
[
BTW, most CCW folks will never tell you they are carrying. So I suggest you place a large sign on the front of your house declaring that your home is free of firearms and no one is allowed to enter carrying one.

and if I had to do work in that persons home, and KNEW their wishes, I would leave my weapon in my vehicle.

TBH, I don't think I would pack heat on the job like that (not on me, just in my vehicle) as you ARE trampling on their personal property rights imho.

It may not be illegal, but Legal != Right, just as illegal != wrong (all the time anyway)

In this case, it's legal, but imho, it's wrong.

I think ALL guns should be taken away!

PS - Your 'experience' means nothing to me.

The point is...you can't disarm criminal with legal restrictions, they don't CARE ABOUT THE LAW.

They do care about themselves, and that is where a well instructed, level headed, smart CCW comes in...if you pack heat, you dang well better understand when to use it, when to draw it, when to leave it in the car, and be able to plant a few in the bad guys chest if required.

Change the situation of the bank being robbed to using a knife. Would a CCW draw and/or fire? Probably not (I wouldn't, anyway) because the ability for the criminal to cause death/major damage to a teller across the counter goes WAY DOWN. Drawing is most likely going to cause them to grab the nearest person as a shield, and then they CAN kill from that range.

You cannot ban weapons, because you cannot control the criminals. Until you can control the criminals, then you cannot stop LEGAL gun ownership as a method of defense.


Even if you stop criminals, we, as citizens, have the right to have weapons, in case our govt becomes a tyranny, or illegal, or etc etc etc. It's then our moral obligation to take up arms as a regulated militia and throw off the bonds of immoral govt. Anyone remember that one of the first thing Hitler did was gather up all personal weapons? This was because Naziism was a minority, and if the German people had known what was happening, and been armed, then they would most likely have risen up as a nation of people and thrown the Nazi's out.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: Amused

BTW, most CCW folks will never tell you they are carrying. So I suggest you place a large sign on the front of your house declaring that your home is free of firearms and no one is allowed to enter carrying one.

Meanwhile, you can try to insult me with sandwich comments... but I hire people like you to make my sandwiches in over a dozen stores that my partner and I own.

I would think that out of respect for the homeowner you would not bring a firearm onto their private residence. If you have CCW permit, then you would tell them that. I can't believe you wouldn't say anything. That's just wrong in my opinion.

You actually hire people like me? Hmm, I find that hard to believe, but it's good I've seen the people at Cousins Subs. The industry doesn't exactly save people's lives ...

 

[XNice]

you are loony because you can't form a logical argument. you are loony because when you can't retort with logical facts, you attempt to insult people. you are loony because you cant figure out that your alcoholic/criminal father is the reason you have an exaggerated distaste for guns. you are loony because your father is loony.

You are NOT loony because you believe guns should be illegal. NO THATS NOT IT! YOU ARE LOONY due to how you carried yourself in your losing arguments. You are loony because you check into peoples backgrounds. You are loony because you statements hold no meaning to the reality the rest of us share. You are loony because people who share your same view about guns still call you loony.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: XNice
you are loony because you can't form a logical argument. you are loony because when you can't retort with logical facts, you attempt to insult people. you are loony because you cant figure out that your alcoholic/criminal father is the reason you have an exaggerated distaste for guns. you are loony because your father is loony.

You are NOT loony because you believe guns should be illegal. NO THATS NOT IT! YOU ARE LOONY due to how you carried yourself in your losing arguments. You are loony because you check into peoples backgrounds. You are loony because you statements hold no meaning to the reality the rest of us share. You are loony because people who share your same view about guns still call you loony.

To say that you shouldn't carry a concealed weapon onto the residence of a private homeowner without their consent is loony and not logical? My distaste for guns isn't exaggerated. I think it's perfectly reasonable. The fact that I don't want firearms on my residence should be respected, regardless if you're a crook, a CCW holder, or a cop.

What is loony is that I keep posting to this thread!

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: XNice
you are loony because you can't form a logical argument. you are loony because when you can't retort with logical facts, you attempt to insult people. you are loony because you cant figure out that your alcoholic/criminal father is the reason you have an exaggerated distaste for guns. you are loony because your father is loony.

You are NOT loony because you believe guns should be illegal. NO THATS NOT IT! YOU ARE LOONY due to how you carried yourself in your losing arguments. You are loony because you check into peoples backgrounds. You are loony because you statements hold no meaning to the reality the rest of us share. You are loony because people who share your same view about guns still call you loony.

To say that you shouldn't carry a concealed weapon onto the residence of a private homeowner without their consent is loony and not logical? My distaste for guns isn't exaggerated. I think it's perfectly reasonable. The fact that I don't want firearms on my residence should be respected, regardless if you're a crook, a CCW holder, or a cop.

What is loony is that I keep posting to this thread!

while i agree if a person ask not to bring a weapon into the home the CCW holder should respect that wish.

Any company that then says then we can't do business with you is nuts.

but go ahead and tell a cop that he can't bring in the weapon. LOL good luck on that.

 

[XNice]

Originally posted by: 3NF
What is loony is that I keep posting to this thread!

We already told you that 4 pages ago....

wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: XNice
you are loony because you can't form a logical argument. you are loony because when you can't retort with logical facts, you attempt to insult people. you are loony because you cant figure out that your alcoholic/criminal father is the reason you have an exaggerated distaste for guns. you are loony because your father is loony.

You are NOT loony because you believe guns should be illegal. NO THATS NOT IT! YOU ARE LOONY due to how you carried yourself in your losing arguments. You are loony because you check into peoples backgrounds. You are loony because you statements hold no meaning to the reality the rest of us share. You are loony because people who share your same view about guns still call you loony.

To say that you shouldn't carry a concealed weapon onto the residence of a private homeowner without their consent is loony and not logical? My distaste for guns isn't exaggerated. I think it's perfectly reasonable. The fact that I don't want firearms on my residence should be respected, regardless if you're a crook, a CCW holder, or a cop.

What is loony is that I keep posting to this thread!

while i agree if a person ask not to bring a weapon into the home the CCW holder should respect that wish.

Any company that then says then we can't do business with you is nuts.

but go ahead and tell a cop that he can't bring in the weapon. LOL good luck on that.

I have no idea if the cop would or not. But I'm guessing there must be some sort of law that says he can, and what I wish or not is irrelevant. That's wonderful.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: XNice
you are loony because you can't form a logical argument. you are loony because when you can't retort with logical facts, you attempt to insult people. you are loony because you cant figure out that your alcoholic/criminal father is the reason you have an exaggerated distaste for guns. you are loony because your father is loony.

You are NOT loony because you believe guns should be illegal. NO THATS NOT IT! YOU ARE LOONY due to how you carried yourself in your losing arguments. You are loony because you check into peoples backgrounds. You are loony because you statements hold no meaning to the reality the rest of us share. You are loony because people who share your same view about guns still call you loony.

To say that you shouldn't carry a concealed weapon onto the residence of a private homeowner without their consent is loony and not logical? My distaste for guns isn't exaggerated. I think it's perfectly reasonable. The fact that I don't want firearms on my residence should be respected, regardless if you're a crook, a CCW holder, or a cop.

What is loony is that I keep posting to this thread!

while i agree if a person ask not to bring a weapon into the home the CCW holder should respect that wish.

Any company that then says then we can't do business with you is nuts.

but go ahead and tell a cop that he can't bring in the weapon. LOL good luck on that.

I have no idea if the cop would or not. But I'm guessing there must be some sort of law that says he can, and what I wish or not is irrelevant. That's wonderful.

and how it should be. if you are hideing a guy wanted on a crime it would be to deadly to make him leave the gun in the car then have the felon shoot him or such.

best option is not allow the cop in without a warrent.

 

[fubar569]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: XNice
you are loony because you can't form a logical argument. you are loony because when you can't retort with logical facts, you attempt to insult people. you are loony because you cant figure out that your alcoholic/criminal father is the reason you have an exaggerated distaste for guns. you are loony because your father is loony.

You are NOT loony because you believe guns should be illegal. NO THATS NOT IT! YOU ARE LOONY due to how you carried yourself in your losing arguments. You are loony because you check into peoples backgrounds. You are loony because you statements hold no meaning to the reality the rest of us share. You are loony because people who share your same view about guns still call you loony.

To say that you shouldn't carry a concealed weapon onto the residence of a private homeowner without their consent is loony and not logical? My distaste for guns isn't exaggerated. I think it's perfectly reasonable. The fact that I don't want firearms on my residence should be respected, regardless if you're a crook, a CCW holder, or a cop.

What is loony is that I keep posting to this thread!

this may be the first intelligent thing i've recognized from you all thread...

to think you must fear something because you do not understand it is also a tad loony. your distaste for personal freedoms and civil rights of the absolute most basic kind is what sickens me. people like you are the ones that vote in the administrations responsible for the OMFG GUNS ARE TEH EVIL!!11!!! legislation, the patriot act (single biggest load of political BS ever), and countless other tresspasses on your own rights...you elected them, you endorse it...now they think they can get away with it...and the best part is you think they're right...

personally, i would never outright announce that i an a CCW holder. if by some other means the person finds out that i do carry daily and then makes a specific request to not carry into thier residence...i would abide by it...OR try to find some common ground or illustrate what i had to go through or what training i have or at least offer to unload the magazine or something...try to find some common ground and make it work...

i also agree that you should have a firearms free zone sign on your house...and then i shall laugh as your home is repeadedly vanalized/burglarized/etc because the crimimals then know they can get away with it without fear of losing thier life.

the reason society itself continues to degrade to this point is we all (as a society) have become a bunch of liberalized worthless pussies. we are light on criminals, we deflect the blame, neevr take responsibility, then pass the buck to the next guy and let him deal with it...all this bullshit about being politically correct and non-offensive and tolerant and blah blah blah is ****** bullshit...

america needs to wake the hell up, grow some balls, and take some responsibility for itself and future generations. start cracking down on the PC bullshit, start killing criminals instead of giving them 200k for a doctorate plus 30 years free housing and meals, wake up and say " i did it - my fault " instead of "well bobby jo did it why cant i and if it wasnt for that so and so i woulda got away and..." - all of that ****** needs to stop...

 

[XNice]

:beer:

 

[Tom]

here we see the calm, rational, disposition of your typical CCW holder..