Confirmed: al-Zarqawi was killed...

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BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
For those that have trouble with reading comprehension . . .

Bush War 2003 created a tremendous opportunity for al-Zarqawi.

Does that mean Bush compelled al-Zarqawi to do evil deeds in Iraq, Jordan, and possibly Iran? Of course NOT! What idiot would think such things . . . oh nevermind.

Bush War 2003 set the conditions where al-Zarqawi could go from small time hood to a real player. It's called unintended consequences . . . it happens when the ignorant and arrogant wield the reigns of power like dry drunks with small phalli.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
If this was so painstaking why in the hell didn't they capture this guy? Gift wrapping two 500lb bombs sure doesn't gain the US anything. Other than to say he is dead and parade his face around every media outlet known to man.
The answer to that is simple...as we learned in Somalia, sending troops into concentrated urban areas that also happen to be enemy strongholds is a sure way to give your target time to escape while placing your soldiers in a very risky operational situation.

The smart bomb approach was the right decision...as a POW, Zarqawi would not be likely to offer much intelligence information.

A war of attrition is not something we want to continue with religious extremists who think they are doing God's work by killing infidels. The way to win is not to let them run out of people willing to blow them selves up, we win by making it so people DON'T want to.
I would contend that you need to simultaneously knock out the leaders of the extremist movement while simultaneously establishing a climate such that people are not willing to follow said leaders.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
I've read a couple of articles regarding this where it was mentioned that some in his own organization informed on him. Does this mean that Al Qaeda wanted to get rid of him or that there were double agents in his group. It would be good news if it was the latter.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I would contend that you need to simultaneously knock out the leaders of the extremist movement while simultaneously establishing a climate such that people are not willing to follow said leaders.

I would argue that it makes it really hard to play the end game when WE perpetuate the killing with more killing. Because all you are really doing is breeding generations of killers...those children left behind to tend to the dead all the while blaming the U.S. Iraq needs to take out these killers...not the U.S.

Iraq needs so much more than just us killing terrorists...but killing terrorists is what helps us sleep better at night right?

 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I would contend that you need to simultaneously knock out the leaders of the extremist movement while simultaneously establishing a climate such that people are not willing to follow said leaders.

I would argue that it makes it really hard to play the end game when WE perpetuate the killing with more killing. Because all you are really doing is breeding generations of killers...those children left behind to tend to the dead all the while blaming the U.S. Iraq needs to take out these killers...not the U.S.

Iraq needs so much more than just us killing terrorists...but killing terrorists is what helps us sleep better at night right?

sympathy for al-Zarqawi. only in America.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I would contend that you need to simultaneously knock out the leaders of the extremist movement while simultaneously establishing a climate such that people are not willing to follow said leaders.

I would argue that it makes it really hard to play the end game when WE perpetuate the killing with more killing. Because all you are really doing is breeding generations of killers...those children left behind to tend to the dead all the while blaming the U.S. Iraq needs to take out these killers...not the U.S.

Iraq needs so much more than just us killing terrorists...but killing terrorists is what helps us sleep better at night right?

sympathy for al-Zarqawi. only in America.
sympathy!?! I am actually offended you said that.

edit: I think you should just stay out of the conversation..it is obviously way over your comprehension.

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: ntdz
Best news ever.
close.

Bin Laden needs to meet his maker too.

My God people are Tards. They're hailing Bush as the Hero for killing this guy.

I ask them what about Bin Laden and they say, who?

They swear Al-Zarqawi is the leader of Al Qaida that ordered the 9-11 attacks.

Amazing to see brainwashing work so well in action but so sad
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I would contend that you need to simultaneously knock out the leaders of the extremist movement while simultaneously establishing a climate such that people are not willing to follow said leaders.

I would argue that it makes it really hard to play the end game when WE perpetuate the killing with more killing. Because all you are really doing is breeding generations of killers...those children left behind to tend to the dead all the while blaming the U.S. Iraq needs to take out these killers...not the U.S.

Iraq needs so much more than just us killing terrorists...but killing terrorists is what helps us sleep better at night right?

sympathy for al-Zarqawi. only in America.
sympathy!?! I am actually offended you said that.

edit: I think you should just stay out of the conversation..it is obviously way over your comprehension.
And miss the attention she's getting?? Never!

 

JackStorm

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,216
1
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I've read a couple of articles regarding this where it was mentioned that some in his own organization informed on him. Does this mean that Al Qaeda wanted to get rid of him or that there were double agents in his group. It would be good news if it was the latter.

One can always hope it was the latter. But considering how much he was disliked even by other resistance groups for targeting civilians, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was the former.

Heck, a year or two ago another group (That targets military targets, not civilian) stated how they would hunt down him or any other(Including Al Qaeda) foreign operatives/terrorists if they continued to target civilians.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: kage69
So it's Bush's fault Zarqawi went around killing schoolchildren, bombing hotels and beheading people? Nice logic there...


Do us all a favor, avoid mentioning 'logic' in your posts, there's enough humorous material in here to distract us all as it is. While you're at it, you might want to read up on a concept known as 'cause and effect.'

Bush shares the blame, but that doesn't excuse Zarqawi from committing such deeds. Would he been able to go on such a rampage had Bush not been stupid enough to be led into this expensive clusterfvck by Rumsfeld and Cheney? (Thereby creating the environment for terror to thrive in?)

Hell even King Abdullah of Jordan deserves some blame. If he hadn't pardoned Zarqawi and released him from prison we might have had an easier fish to fry once the sh!t started to hit the fan.

Zarqawi was a known terrorist BEFORE the Iraq war, so I don't see how it could possibly be Bush that somehow turned him into a terrorist. To say it's Bush's fault because some psycho religious freak gets a hard on from killing innocent people is idiotic.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I would contend that you need to simultaneously knock out the leaders of the extremist movement while simultaneously establishing a climate such that people are not willing to follow said leaders.

I would argue that it makes it really hard to play the end game when WE perpetuate the killing with more killing. Because all you are really doing is breeding generations of killers...those children left behind to tend to the dead all the while blaming the U.S. Iraq needs to take out these killers...not the U.S.

Iraq needs so much more than just us killing terrorists...but killing terrorists is what helps us sleep better at night right?

sympathy for al-Zarqawi. only in America.
sympathy!?! I am actually offended you said that.

edit: I think you should just stay out of the conversation..it is obviously way over your comprehension.
And miss the attention she's getting?? Never!
fvck off Red

it's funny. other people can state their opinions on here no matter how brash, especially you Red, but you don't afford others the same.

why is that?

 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I would argue that it makes it really hard to play the end game when WE perpetuate the killing with more killing. Because all you are really doing is breeding generations of killers...those children left behind to tend to the dead all the while blaming the U.S. Iraq needs to take out these killers...not the U.S.
Understandably...the arbitrary killing of Iraqi civilians, either through collatoral damage or intentionally, is only going to breed a new generation of terrorists...just ask Israel about that.

What I am talking about is precision attacks against extremist leaders...don't even need to put conventional forces on the ground to do it...inflitrate these organizations with special ops and delta force, and then call in the precision bombs to do the dirty work.

The Afghanistan model also works well...use opposition forces already in the region to topple extremist regimes and leadership.

Our biggest mistake was putting troops on the ground in Iraq.
 

JackStorm

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,216
1
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
My God people are Tards.

Seriously, Dave, you're in no position to call anyone a tard or brainwashed. You're one of the most uninformed and intellectually dishonest posters on this forum. You're just as bad as Zendari is(And HeartSurgeon was before he left/was banned).
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I would contend that you need to simultaneously knock out the leaders of the extremist movement while simultaneously establishing a climate such that people are not willing to follow said leaders.

I would argue that it makes it really hard to play the end game when WE perpetuate the killing with more killing. Because all you are really doing is breeding generations of killers...those children left behind to tend to the dead all the while blaming the U.S. Iraq needs to take out these killers...not the U.S.

Iraq needs so much more than just us killing terrorists...but killing terrorists is what helps us sleep better at night right?

sympathy for al-Zarqawi. only in America.
sympathy!?! I am actually offended you said that.

edit: I think you should just stay out of the conversation..it is obviously way over your comprehension.
And miss the attention she's getting?? Never!
fvck off Red

it's funny. other people can state their opinions on here no matter how brash, especially you Red, but you don't afford others the same.

why is that?
So it's your honest opinion that Orbyte is sympathetic to a murderous terrorist bastard?
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I would contend that you need to simultaneously knock out the leaders of the extremist movement while simultaneously establishing a climate such that people are not willing to follow said leaders.

I would argue that it makes it really hard to play the end game when WE perpetuate the killing with more killing. Because all you are really doing is breeding generations of killers...those children left behind to tend to the dead all the while blaming the U.S. Iraq needs to take out these killers...not the U.S.

Iraq needs so much more than just us killing terrorists...but killing terrorists is what helps us sleep better at night right?

sympathy for al-Zarqawi. only in America.
sympathy!?! I am actually offended you said that.

edit: I think you should just stay out of the conversation..it is obviously way over your comprehension.
And miss the attention she's getting?? Never!
fvck off Red

it's funny. other people can state their opinions on here no matter how brash, especially you Red, but you don't afford others the same.

why is that?
So it's your honest opinion that Orbyte is sympathetic to a murderous terrorist bastard?
i guess not judging by his response.

which brings us to your response which basically calls me an attention whore.
one could say the same of you, but i don't see it benefitting anything.

 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
So it's your honest opinion that Orbyte is sympathetic to a murderous terrorist bastard?
i guess not judging by his response.

which brings us to your response which basically calls me an attention whore.
one could say the same of you, but i don't see it benefitting anything.

[/quote]
Your post was an uncalled for attack where as mine was an educated observation.Text
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I would argue that it makes it really hard to play the end game when WE perpetuate the killing with more killing. Because all you are really doing is breeding generations of killers...those children left behind to tend to the dead all the while blaming the U.S. Iraq needs to take out these killers...not the U.S.
Understandably...the arbitrary killing of Iraqi civilians, either through collatoral damage or intentionally, is only going to breed a new generation of terrorists...just ask Israel about that.

What I am talking about is precision attacks against extremist leaders...don't even need to put conventional forces on the ground to do it...inflitrate these organizations with special ops and delta force, and then call in the precision bombs to do the dirty work.

The Afghanistan model also works well...use opposition forces already in the region to topple extremist regimes and leadership.

Our biggest mistake was putting troops on the ground in Iraq.
I agree with precision strikes, but as CNN clearly demonstrated there will always be collateral damage and innocent lives lost, the more that the U.S. can distance itself from that the better. Ultimately it would be sweet if it was the Iraq military and intelligence services that would do the dirty work...ala Afghanistan.

and I think it is in everybody's best interest to give the Iraq intelligence services, and military people all the credit for this and let them run with it as far and as long as possible.

No need to make it a partisan thing, hell the number one Al Q guy in Iraq was just smoked, that is something for us to be happy about, and for the people of Iraq to be positively joyous about! Then move onto the next guy and continue to build momentum from there...momentum for the benefit of Iraq, not necessarily the US. Our back slapping can wait until the country of Iraq is back in the people's hands and not in the hands of terrorists and thugs.

Iraq needs to be the major player in making that happen.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
So it's your honest opinion that Orbyte is sympathetic to a murderous terrorist bastard?
i guess not judging by his response.

which brings us to your response which basically calls me an attention whore.
one could say the same of you, but i don't see it benefitting anything.
Your post was an uncalled for attack where as mine was an educated observation.
[/quote]
no, mine was also an observation oh all knowing god. :roll:

 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I've read a couple of articles regarding this where it was mentioned that some in his own organization informed on him. Does this mean that Al Qaeda wanted to get rid of him or that there were double agents in his group. It would be good news if it was the latter.

OBL did send a letter to Zarqawi after he bombed the hotel in Jordan killing a lot of people telling him that killing muslims was bad.

i bet OBL had a role in this and had the USAF snuff him out.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,754
40,214
136
Whoa, nice personal attack I'll remember that one when I go back to middle school in the fall.

Actually, the additional 's' was intentional in your case. But, for someone so obsessed with labeling those that beg to differ as brainless dope smokers, you sure sound funny getting uptight over being called out on acting and writing like a child. Petulent sarcasm doesn't improve your standing either.

Wait, I don't even remember middle school ... those must have been a long 2 weeks that just passed. Also, you misspelled asinine. Do we need to go back to school and learn some more of that there spelling?

Mea culpa. Trying to type fast with large hands does result in the errant typo from time to time. Does this mean you want to know about your improper grammar in your initial third sentence?

What I don't get is how so many things can be blamed on one man

I agree that there are a lot of innane accusations thrown the president's way, but in regards to the actual topic of the thread, this can fairly be put in his lap. Whether you like it or not, the buck stops there. If you want to piss and moan about the far left trying to peg global warming or other nonsense on Bush, then by all means create a thread about it.

You all give him far too much credit regarding what he can, and can't do as president.

Oh where to begin! First of all, the only people who seem to have the powers of the president exaggerrated in their minds is well, the president and neoconservative lapdogs like yourself who support him. For the actual powers of office, I'll defer to the Constitution and concept of 'checks and balances,' you can recite whatever party-line mantra is in vogue these days. You know, whatever makes you feel the most patriotic. I'm also less concerned with what he can't do, than I am with what he shouldn't be doing. Elective wars which rely on deception to be sold (and make us less safe) count for quite un-presidential behavior in my book. Your mileage may vary.

If we were going to follow the cause and effect idea (i.e. that Bush in one way or another inadvertently caused everything he is being blamed for), then every single one of us can be blamed to an equal extent! There is no country without us is there? No president without citizens? Oh yes, we are here to live and make money, like an old lady sitting in a nursing home complaining about how bad the food is.... Be thankful you have food!

No, that would be taking 'cause and effect' to an unrealistic, almost silly level as it would require every single one of us to have voted for Bush and approve of HIS decision to invade Iraq. You can't be that confused as to think that, do you? As for the rest of your straw-woven babble, while I can kinda see what you're trying to imply, the analogy is piss poor at best and certainly irrelevent.

This might be what is happening in this country these days, though. Some people feel guilty for supporting this government in the past, and they don't want to admit they were wrong, so someone must be blamed. Lets blame someone high-profile! Oh yes, Bush works! We don't really like him anyways, and it is easy to connect him to everything since he is the president.

It is simply mind-boggling that you cannot correlate the situation in Iraq to criticism of how Iraq is being handled. The POTUS being high-profile is irrelevent, one more time IT WAS HIS DECISION!
You apologists are too funny. If only this were all about a blow-job huh?

So, now we have millions of people jumping on this bandwagon, which was started by the far left, and joined by those above. (Please don't tell me you are so naive as to think people are not influenced by public opinion, and there is no such thing as the bandwagon effect.)

Oh look, another attempt to duhvert. *yawn* I believe historical facts and hard numbers ultimately sway more people than public opinion. That's as far as I'll indulge your pathetic sidetrack.

They think - "Well my neighbor doesn't like Bush, and most of my other friends don't, and the popular media sure doesn't, so why should I.... Well, I guess I can see their point (if I turn a blind eye to really thinking through the issues)." And on and on it goes. You have a few people who truly believe what they are saying, and others who just jump on the BBB (Bush Bashing Bandwagon).

Uh oh, I think maybe a craptastic approval rating has been interfering with someone's sleep schedule! A Bush supporter talking about another turning a blind eye! LOL, hoooooot!!!! For a laugh of that caliber, I forgive you for making me spill my beer. :thumbsup:

Welcome to the world in which we live today. Here, in America, we can disrespect anyone we want, anytime we want, any way we want!

No welcome necessary, I've been here (longer than you I'll wager) for awhile, and despite traveling and living abroad for many years, I'd rather be in the USA than anywhere else. You can try to wax eloquent all you want, but ultimately it's you who is putting party ahead of country as long as you dismiss all criticism of the POTUS as part of a left vs. right argument.

Long live freedom of speech. (No, seriously!)

Hey look, we agree on something. :thumbsup:



 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,754
40,214
136
Zarqawi was a known terrorist BEFORE the Iraq war, so I don't see how it could possibly be Bush that somehow turned him into a terrorist. To say it's Bush's fault because some psycho religious freak gets a hard on from killing innocent people is idiotic.

No one said Bush turned Zarqawi into a terrorist, likewise no one is arguing his chosen occupation pre-invasion. Clear it up any?

He wasn't a law abiding citizen, hence his prison term in Jordan, the point is he didn't have his own terrorist playground nextdoor prior to the Iraq invasion. Do you really want to compare the number of lives Zarqawi is responsible for taking on a pre/post invasion basis?

This is like a sheep farmer bitching about coyotes, digging them a den 50ft from his grazing field, and then bitching about the toll they exact on his flock. Only the coyotes take all the blame.


 
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