Confirmed: eVGA GF3Ti200 uses Hynix 3.3 nS memory

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WHipLAsh13

Golden Member
Jan 17, 2001
1,719
0
76
I am in the market for a new monitor right now to go with my Ti-200. I do a lot of gaming and am under the impression that flat panels are no good for gaming. Is this the case or am I mis-informed?
 

SpotDancer

Senior member
Jul 11, 2001
877
0
0


<< I am in the market for a new monitor right now to go with my Ti-200. I do a lot of gaming and am under the impression that flat panels are no good for gaming. Is this the case or am I mis-informed? >>



Like everything else, it all depends on the quality of the monitor. While reading different threads I have seen posts where people said they really enjoyed gaming with their LCD monitor.

Since I dont own one (yet).......I cant really say, but I have seen them on display and they are beautiful. Of course, they were probably showing a DVD movie on it, so I dont know about gaming.

One thing is for sure - I will definitely become an educated consumer about LCD monitors when my bank gets that large!!!!......:Q:Q
 

Bozo Galora

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 1999
7,271
0
0

The digital flat panel monitors are also called "soft" screens, since their images seems to have a "softer" quality than those from traditional CRT monitors. The image does not flicker thus causing less eye strain.

People, like myself, who have become accustomed to these soft images will not return to the traditional monitors. I cannot express this with enough emphasis: The flat display is the best monitor available. It is so good to your eyes!

Modern research has shown that a steadily illuminated screen image is a very important element in a good work environment. The eye responds to all light impressions, and the brain interprets all light impressions continually. When a mediocre monitor flickers, the brain will continually receive superfluous light impressions "noise" to sort out. Thus the brain works permanent overtime interpreting the screen flicker. No wonder that people get tired from watching their monitors.

At the same time the LCD screen is by far the most environmentally safe product. These flat screens emit zero radiation, and they consume significantly less power than the traditional monitors. Another reason to expect LCD screens to become the monitors of the future.
No refresh rate
A big advantage in the LCD screen is that it does not flicker. Traditional CRT monitors flicker all the time which is not ideal. Of course the best CRT monitors have a high refresh rate (85 Hz or more), which provides a very stable image with no noticeable flicker. But the LCD screen does not flicker at all (when digitally connected). They have a refresh rate of 0 Hz!

Please notice that looking at LCD displays, you may read information like:

* Pixel Frequency 65MHz
* Horizontal 30 ~ 50KHz
* Vertical: 55 ~ 70Hz

This indicates that there is a refresh rate. There is, but it is only working when the screen image is changing. So if you move a window across the screen, the changes will be updated with a refresh rate of 60 Hz or what ever you choose.

To many users this does not really matter; using Office programs, most of the time the screen image does not change, hence it does not flicker. Obviously it is a problem if you expect to use your flat panel monitor to show full motion videos or games.


The digital interface

The most important thing about the flat panel monitor is that it is connected to a digital graphics port. Unfortunately, this is not always the case.

Back in 1997, when I got my first flat panel monitor (the Siemens 3501T mentioned above) it was only available with a (total proprietary) digital graphics adapter. This was a 1st generation flat panel monitor. Later the manufactures found out to add an analog port in the displays. This way people could buy a flat panel monitor and reuse their exixting graphics adapter. It is a marketing stunt, which should not be followed!

The only way to benefit from a flat panel monitor is to feed it digitally.


In spring 2001 I bought a new flat panel monitor; it is a Dell model 1701FP. A nice 17.3" monitor, which I paid around $900 for (the price have decreased later). The monitor holds both an analog (VGA-) port and a digital port (DVI).

A 17.3" flat panel monitor has a visible area much bigger than that from a traditional 17" CRT monitor - you can compare it to a 19" CRT. The 17.3 inches is the visible diameter.

I was told, that it should work fine using the analog port with my existing Matrox G400 graphics controller. The manual emphased that one should use the 60Hz mode. I installed the hardware, and it worked fine. Only the image was terrible! It was flickering and very unsharp, kind of "dirty".

The weird thing is, that the Dell manual holds almost nothing on these issues. But through testing we found out that the 75 Hz analog mode was the best possible. But it was not satisfactory, not at all. Having paid quite a lot of money, we desided to go for a digital graphigs controller. We found an ATI Radeon VE, which turned out to be a great card at a reasonable price:

From the box, the product seems to be aimed gamers. To those I am sure, that the RADEON chipset and the 32 MB of DDR RAM is fine. To us, the very important issue was, that there is a DVI connector on the board:

With the DVI connector in use, the DELL flat panel monitor works absolutely perfectly. Thinking about it, it is incredible, that the company does not tell this in the manual. With digital interface the image is extremely sharp and completely flicker free.

A flat panel monitor is digital by nature. There is no analog electronics included, and that is the big advantage of this technology. Hence, the monitor should not be connected through an analog interface. In fact, using the analog interface, you get to conversions, which both add noise to the final image. First the graphics adapter has to convert the digital data of the PC to analog electronical signals. Then these analog signals have to be converted back til digital information to feed the display.

Using the digital interface, each pixel consists of three transistors, which each is mapped to the corresponding memory cell holding the image info. A purely digital to digital transmission with no electronical noise involved - that is the way to produce a stunning image!

It is difficult to produce a flat panel display without flaws. Most panels sold have a few defect pixels, where one or more transistors are gone.

The bigger the panel gets, the more flaws you find (due to the increasing number of transistors). This helps keeping up the prices - the manufactures have to throw away a large percantage of the production - you cannot repair flawed pixels.

All vendors have some kind of quality policy in this area. Some only accept up to 3 or 5 pixel flaws per panel. Others accept up to 15, if they are not situated in the middle of the display. When you buy a flat panel display you should make sure that you can return it if the number of pixel-flaws is to big. This can be hard to achieve.

In the summer 2001, a German survey showed that some vendors take advantage of the consumers ignorance in this area. More than 30% of the flat panel monitors were of second range quality and should not have been brought to the shops. Obviously it has been tempting to some companies to sell some of the displays, which should have been dismissed.

Using a LCD display, you should remember to install the Windows screen saver. I use "Black screen" after 5 minutes. Like in the "old days", the monitor may get damaged from longer periods of showing the same image.

Yes, DVI is DVI. It is funny that they charge more for DV output, because you are bypassing RAMDAC
chip completely in straight Digital to Digital. (I'm sure you've seen those Geforce blurbs on their high
speed 350MHZ RAMDAC)
In straight thru digital, the true quality of the card GPU is evident.
What you see is what you get.

And don't buy a digital monitor online, or new in the box. Make them fire it up in the store and teach
yourself to spot dead pixels. I cannot bear even one dead pixel.

Edit:I built an "integrated" system for a friends business, and told him LCDs are better, so, on his own, he
saw the Viewsonic VG150 on sale at CompUSA and bought it. The mobo was the Abit SA6R, which has a
very mediocre on board graphics chip. Much to my surprise, we hooked it up, loaded the given drivers,
and it played quite decently, thank you. I simply didn't have the heart to tell him "the rest of the story"
(heh heh).

LCD Pixel Criteria Guidelines

Due to current manufacturing methods of LCD display panels, a certain number of sub-pixel anomalies (a pixel stuck on or off) are acceptable. Because the manufacturing yield of perfect LCD Displays are very low, displays may have some sub-pixels that are either always on or always off. The cost of accepting only perfect displays could nearly double the price of a and LCD Display. This is true of all products using LCD technology, not specific to one manufacturer. If the industry attempted to set a zero standard, the current manufacturing yield would be so low that the cost of an LCD display would be many times higher than it is today. Luckily, most customers and applications are tolerant of a low level of non-performing pixels and prefer the lower cost that the existing standards allow.

It is advised that if you think your LCD screen contains an excessively high number of pixel anomalies, you can contact tech support to arrange an evaluation. However, you should be aware that we will not replace a screen with just one or a small number of dead pixels.
Pixel Guidelines:

Each LCD Manufacturer is committed to customer satisfaction by providing the highest quality products in the industry. The result is that our LCD displays generally have very few non-performing pixels. For example, an 18" SXGA (1280 x 1024) display has nearly 4 million sub-pixels. A product exhibiting 10 non-performing pixels would equate to an extremely small 0.00025 percent of the total sub-pixels.

(1280 Horizontal Pixels) * (1024 Vertical Pixels) * (3 sub-pixels per pixel) = 3,932,160 sub-pixels

[(10 non-performing pixels) / (3,932,160 sub-pixels)] * 100% = 0.00025%

To ensure the highest performing displays, the manufacturer sets limits as to the allowable number of pixel anomalies. The manufacturer has adopted the following pixel criteria to supplement our existing limited warranty. This policy applies to all the manufacturer LCD displays during the warranty period.

The manufacturer sets limits on 14" - 15" LCD?s at 5 bright sub-pixels, 5 dark sub-pixels, or a combination of 8.
The manufacturer sets limits on 17" - 18" LCD?s at 8 bright sub-pixels, 8 dark sub-pixels, or a combination of 10.
the manufacturer sets limits on 20" & greater LCD?s at 10 bright sub-pixels, 10 dark sub-pixels, or a combination of 15.

*It is possible that any replacement display may also have some non-performing sub-pixels. This should be considered when requesting a warranty exchange.
 

PullMyFinger

Senior member
Mar 7, 2001
728
0
0
Whiplash,
The suitability of an LCD display to gaming is based on the refresh rate of the pixels. Like Bozo Galora had mentioned, LCD displays don't have a full screen refresh rate, the pixels stay on until it's necessary to redraw them. However, when a pixel is redrawn, there is a refresh time for that pixel. If my memory serves me correctly, early LCD displays had pixel refresh times of around 200 ms (don't quote me, I'm old and the memory just don't work that well sometimes). This can lead to ghosting when there are fast moving objects displayed, like in first person shooters or racing/flight sims. I'm not sure what the newer, digital LCD's claim for a pixel refresh rate.

If your original question was referring to flat screen CRT monitors, some people like them and some people don't. Some people claim the image appears distored or bent inward but that may be because people have been looking at curved CRT's for so long. Right now it seems like you pay a slight premium for the flat screen, meaning you can get a traditional non-flat screen monitor w/ the same options, dot pitch, refresh rate, etc for a little less than a flat screen with similar features. Or you can get a non-flat screen w/ more options/better specifications for the same price as a flat screen w/ lesser features.

Just my 2c, don't shoot me if it's incorrect.

Out
 

wilki24

Member
Feb 27, 2001
194
0
0


<< These flat screens emit zero radiation >>



Umm... how would you see them then?

Visible light is a narrow part of the electromagnetic spectrum, and obviously an LCD monitor has to radiate electromagnetic waves in order for you to see anything. Are you saying that perhaps LCD monitors only emit electromagnetic waves in the visible spectrum? I honestly don't know if that is how they work or not... someone enlighten me please.

(The only other type of radiation is nuclear, and I'm fairly certain that my Viewsonic isn't emitting gamma particles )
 

RgrPark

Golden Member
Mar 11, 2000
1,086
0
0
A member of the Hardforums has actually flashed his Bios with TI-500 bios in hopes of getting a better OC...
Read about it here
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
2
0
Holy sh!t Bozo.....I'm gonna have to cut and paste that into a Word doc so I can read it before I get an LCD

Thanks

Chiz
 

cabezon

Member
Jan 23, 2000
114
0
0
Analog cables on LCD monitors are hardly a marketing gimmick. Correctly configured, you'd be hard pressed to tell a significant difference between a GOOD vga cable and a DVI cable.

A common mistake with LCD monitors is not loading a vertical stripe pattern (thinner the better) and running the LCD autoconfigure. I use the Straw wallpaper tiled that comes with win98 to run my monitor configuration, and it looks great with the analog connection.

A high quality cable can also help at high-resolutions if there is lots of interference in the signal still. Bettercables.com sells videophile quality VGA cables that will carry a clean signal for long distances at a time.

DVI is great, but in conditions where it's not available, analog is well-suited enough for the task. Don't buy into the "all analog is garbage" misconception. There has to be a reason some serious audiophiles still keep phonograph players in their systems.

But yes, audio signals are inherently analog, whereas video signals are inherently digital. So ignore that last comment and read the rest of the post that I'm still awaiting a response to.
 

Bozo Galora

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 1999
7,271
0
0

There has to be a reason some serious audiophiles still keep phonograph players in their systems.

Good logic there fella.
Slight prob:

Audio starts out as analogue.
PC Video starts out as digital.
 

bevo

Senior member
May 21, 2000
513
0
0
EVGA has responded about this card on the Hardcore O/cer's forum. You opinionated folks ought to read what they have to say, and have the opportunity to respond in kind
 

MustangSVT

Lifer
Oct 7, 2000
11,554
12
81
finally opened the box and set it up on a new computer.
i dont know what's wrong with it..
so far its running prefect at 230/535...

i am using power strip.

this is on a K7s5a, 1.33 ghz T-bird @ 1.43 (143 fsb.. too bad this board doesnt let me choose multiplier, since the cpu is unlocked.. im sure i can get around 1.5 ghz)

it was running ok at 1.47 ghz but locked up when i was loading up serious sam...

i might have to manually change the bridge settings so i can get maybe 11x or 10.5 x

wish me luck!
 

ahsumdude

Senior member
Nov 12, 2000
531
0
0
The ethereal evga card and it's mystical 3.3 ram
Has anyone actually OC'd this card to see how high they can go?
I've read a few posts that indicate this card "craps" out around 500 - 530. Anyone have any better luck. Has anyone tried increasing the drive strength to the board via BIOS adjustments? I happen to be one of the foolish many that was seduced by BUYEE's claim of 600mhz. If I could reasonably attain 530ish I would be content. I have thought about just refusing to accept the UPS package and return it without the RMA on it. I am very certain obtaining an RMA from BUYEEE.com is going to be quite problematic. I'm valsilating between giving this card a shot or just downright refusing to accept it and then let AMEX deal with them. At least if I tell AMEX that I have return the product I will not have to forgo a 15% restocking fee. Any thought on this from anyone?

 

SpotDancer

Senior member
Jul 11, 2001
877
0
0
In my experience, refusing to accept the card from UPS puts you in a very weak position to get ALL of your money back.

I can assure you that Buyeee.com will charge you a restocking fee, and credit you with the balance. AMEX would be highly unlikely to "fight" on your behalf for a total refund if you do not have a legitimate reason for refusing the delivery. YMMV, but I think this is what will happen if you refuse the card outright.

On the other hand, if you accept the card and get an RMA # from buyeee.com by telling them there is a "problem" with the card - then return it, and buyeee finds out there is nothing wrong with the card, they will still charge you the restocking fee. So, you will have spent the money to return the card and still get nailed.

It could be better in the long run, to refuse the card and accept the restocking fee unless you feel relatively sure that buyeee wont know there is nothing wrong with the card, and refund the entire amount.

I think these are all of your options.
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0
it is better to just refuse it. if you accept it, you'll end up just getting stuck with the shipping fee back to them, plus the restocking fee. you outta file a chargeback just for the hell of it. Banks impose a $20-30 fee when they get a chargeback filed against a merchant. Someone has to pay for the paperwork. From what I've read, Buyeee.com was the one advertising that 600MHz BS, they outta be responsible for the mess
 

SpotDancer

Senior member
Jul 11, 2001
877
0
0
I should also say that the card is not "terrible" in its performance per se, it has only disappointed a lot of people who wanted to overclock the card..........to unrealistic heights some might say..........

In any event, if the card is able to perform up to what most other Ti 200 cards are able to do, it is still a fairly good buy. Plus, it does have a DVI connector along with a TV out - which, to my knowledge, you cannot find on any other card at this price.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.
 

dvander

Junior Member
Dec 21, 2001
1
0
0
:disgust: Ok, here I am I have this Evga with 3.3ns ram non-opened. Im getting the rest of my computer for christmas. Do you think it wuld be worth it to send back this evga card for a full refund on it, and on shipping for say a gainward. Is there really that much difference in 500hz+ (safely overclocked evga with 3.3ns) and whatever the gainward will hit successfully without tearing? If I had to get the gainward, id have to wait about a week after christmas to get my computer built. So basically is it worth the time of waiting to get the gainward. What would you do?

BTW I also loose the DVI port
 
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