Conflict of interest in game journalism.

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
It has been proven over and over again. How much more proof do you need? All those ads, previews, first looks, hands on vids and all the rest would not exist otherwise. The minute you start going legit and turn down the money, you lose your rep with the publishers and won't get all these things. You will just be any average Joe with a blog or YouTube page at that point.

Saying it has been proven over and over isn't proof.

#2 isn't just opinion. Many indie games live off a gimmick and the press eats it up. Think about it. A game gets rated down for poor graphics but "retro graphics" that look a kid made it on MS Paint is overlooked entirely. Indie games should be held to a standard too but often aren't. Guacamelee actually tried to make the game look decent. More than I can say for some others I have seen.

It is opinion.

You seem to think that because it's your opinion and you agree with it, that makes it not opinion.

Yes, some indie games have low res graphics and good reviews. Whether that's because it's a fair review or indie games get 'overly praised' is opinion.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Saying it has been proven over and over isn't proof.



It is opinion.

You seem to think that because it's your opinion and you agree with it, that makes it not opinion.

Yes, some indie games have low res graphics and good reviews. Whether that's because it's a fair review or indie games get 'overly praised' is opinion.

If you can't use google and browse other forums on the internet for info there's no hope for you.

You seem to like being oblivious to the goings on. Just read BrightCandle's post on the last page. Even on AT things are done with compensation in mind. Not because they want to, but they have to in order to remain on the list of those who still get free stuff for testing and review. IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku and others are no different. Gaming journalism is cut throat, people do anything for clicks. It's shady as heck. I sometimes don't know if they are just stupid and post misleading titles for their articles or trying to troll everyone at times. One thing's for certain, they know who is giving them pre-release games for review and paying the bills via advertising. Why do you think games like CoD and Titanfall got/get months of hype?
 
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Rebel_L

Senior member
Nov 9, 2009
451
63
91
2.) Crap consequences to previous decisions. One or two no dialouge wheel ambiant quests in ME3 have a greater influence on your war score that the big decisions of the prior 2 games. One game of multiplayer had an even bigger impact.


4.) The choices themselves were beyond bad. Control was boneheaded considering you just spent the previous scene arguing with TIM that the Reapers can't be controlled. But hey guess what, you're Shepard you can do it. If anything that choice is the catering/ego stroking you claim people are pissed they didn't get. Synthesis was abhorant since it equivalently is a force alteration of every living beings genetic code. Essentially genetic rape, but hey its ok cuz then Joker and EDI aren't so weird <eye roll>. If someone sliced your DNA with a monkey without asking you'd find this acceptable? Destroy was the only thing that made sense imo.

2) That is a common complaint about all of the let you make decision series, and while I would put the blame mostly on the developer for advertising choice, it is simply impossible to have large impacts from previous games. Take for instance a series that per game has one major decision with three different choices. The Second game now has to have 9 different story lines/endings to account for that. The third game 81. I don't see how one will ever get games where you can truly have meaningful impact on other games of the series unless the games are either kept really short (so rather than say 3 full games you get 3 short games that add to about the same as 1 full game) or games are actually virtual worlds where every character has its own independent AI rather than having a scripted story.


4) I want to point out that you finding only one solution palatable could just as easily reflect your passion for the ME universe and the diverse style of customers the game was built for rather than the choices being poor.
 

ArenCordial

Senior member
Sep 18, 2012
214
15
81
2) That is a common complaint about all of the let you make decision series, and while I would put the blame mostly on the developer for advertising choice, it is simply impossible to have large impacts from previous games. Take for instance a series that per game has one major decision with three different choices. The Second game now has to have 9 different story lines/endings to account for that. The third game 81. I don't see how one will ever get games where you can truly have meaningful impact on other games of the series unless the games are either kept really short (so rather than say 3 full games you get 3 short games that add to about the same as 1 full game) or games are actually virtual worlds where every character has its own independent AI rather than having a scripted story.


4) I want to point out that you finding only one solution palatable could just as easily reflect your passion for the ME universe and the diverse style of customers the game was built for rather than the choices being poor.

I'll be brief as I really don't want to derail the purpose of this thread.

2.) Not necessarily. Take for example the Rachni choice, then for example lets say you spare them in the final battle only to have the Reapers indoctrinate them again since the appear easily susceptible. They could have simply had your fight to the beam be much harder in enemy units, you could take a large hit to your EMS, and you have reactivity without creating a huge snowball effect throughout the series. The snowball effect should have come in the ending.

4.) While of course anything is taken a what's personally acceptable I'd argue they did a poor job of setting up some of these as viable options and presenting them well. Control is literally a 180 from the previous scene and Synthesis I don't even know where to start. In Mass Effect people (npcs) seem to argue and fight over the littlest of things, making a choice that would have had drastic and far reaching consequences that weren't well displayed nor even glossed over. The closest thing you see to a synthesis like character might be Saren, a villain.

But yes they did a good job of evoking passionate responses. Anyway I don't want to derail this but if you'd like to continue please feel free to PM me.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Gaming journalism is pure trash. It is not respectable in the least. However, it has nothing to do with sex. Game journalists are just scummy in general turning a blind eye for developers left and right - it has nothing to do with gender.

If we as consumers weren't so obsessed with getting the game on launch, maybe critics could purchase the games themselves and not be under the thumb of publishers.

Or, if critics as a whole were to man up and review games honestly, maybe publishers would have no choice but to still work with critics who give their games poor grades.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
#2 isn't just opinion. Many indie games live off a gimmick and the press eats it up. Think about it. A game gets rated down for poor graphics but "retro graphics" that look a kid made it on MS Paint is overlooked entirely. Indie games should be held to a standard too but often aren't. Guacamelee actually tried to make the game look decent. More than I can say for some others I have seen.

The gimmick thing is very true. So many indie games have a single gimmick, and critics only play the game 1-2 hours so the gimmick stays fresh.

However, I don't know about the graphics part. Grahpically intensive != looks good. Aesthetic design take precedence. I'm talking about games like Shovel Knight, Fez, Bastion/Transistor, etc. When it comes to games like Super Meat Boy, Binding of Isaac, of RPG maker games, then I agree the graphics aren't great, but I don't see anyone calling them great either.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,832
879
126
Gaming journalism is a sad sad joke. It's completely corrupt and even the ones that aren't corrupt are usually incompetent and have completely inconsistent reviews.

Word of mouth really is the best way to judge a game.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
1,260
126
Superficially I don't think this guy really lost much, and beyond that if she cheated that much, I'd say losing her was an all round bonus for him on all fronts.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Superficially I don't think this guy really lost much, and beyond that if she cheated that much, I'd say losing her was an all round bonus for him on all fronts.

I think we can all agree that that guy is a huge pussy for putting up with that fat lunatic and then trying to make it work even after he knew everything.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
This. I'm so sure she was so personally worried about the reviews for the games that she sold her body for good reviews when AAA games have been getting automatic 9+ reviews for almost a decade and a half anyway. Rather than the much more reasonable explanation that she cheated with people she probably crossed paths with while traveling for industry business (which makes it very easy to do). Why does she get all the blame in this and not the reviewers conspiring to get inside information like the dirty whores they are? Oh, then it wouldn't paint a woman in a bad light.

First off it is her problem because she willingly chose to get involved with corruption. And if you would watch the video you would realize that the reviewers and other developers or publishers are getting just as much blame as which Joe is getting for this scandal.

2nd I am wondering what is your opinion on Brandon Eich?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
If you can't use google and browse other forums on the internet for info there's no hope for you.

Hyperbolic insults don't prove your claim either. They do make you unsuccessful in your argument and end the discussion.

You seem to like being oblivious to the goings on. Just read BrightCandle's post on the last page. Even on AT things are done with compensation in mind. Not because they want to, but they have to in order to remain on the list of those who still get free stuff for testing and review. IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku and others are no different. Gaming journalism is cut throat, people do anything for clicks. It's shady as heck. I sometimes don't know if they are just stupid and post misleading titles for their articles or trying to troll everyone at times. One thing's for certain, they know who is giving them pre-release games for review and paying the bills via advertising. Why do you think games like CoD and Titanfall got/get months of hype?

You seem confused between marketing and coverage and reviews.

Oh noes, one of the most expensive games ever made and expected to be a top seller, why does it get press? Why can't they ignore it? Because they're paid off whores, that's why!

You have proven one point - that your claim is not based in anything solid.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
First off it is her problem because she willingly chose to get involved with corruption. And if you would watch the video you would realize that the reviewers and other developers or publishers are getting just as much blame as which Joe is getting for this scandal.

2nd I am wondering what is your opinion on Brandon Eich?

Funny that I'm not seeing any of that in this thread, and most of what I see elsewhere is a convoluted amalgamation of he said/she said and quotes taken out of context. Yes, someone cheated on their spouse that in general is not cool; no, it's highly unlikely review websites were selling their bodies to grant good reviews.

Eich had to stop down because he put himself in a position where his opinions got in the way of him being effective. Having had an ex at a similar executive level (generally VP level) I can tell you letting your reputation slip like he let his is a death knell. If you make most of your employee's uncomfortable to work with you and a large number of your customers not wanting to do business with you... A grunt can kind of keep there head down after and lay low, but a CEO is just done. Why in the world you're bringing that up in this thread I wouldn't know.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Funny that I'm not seeing any of that in this thread, and most of what I see elsewhere is a convoluted amalgamation of he said/she said and quotes taken out of context. Yes, someone cheated on their spouse that in general is not cool; no, it's highly unlikely review websites were selling their bodies to grant good reviews.

Review sites were buying a wildebeest SJW's body with their reviews, not selling their own bodies.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
Review sites were buying a wildebeest SJW's body with their reviews, not selling their own bodies.

Were they? Seems to me it actually takes two to tango and all we have to go on is youtube comment level conjecture.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
no, it's highly unlikely review websites were selling their bodies to grant good reviews.

Um no. If you would read up about humanities, philosophy, psychology, anthropology, political science, history, sociology, or other social sciences you would understand that many average homo sapiens are susceptible to the draw of power, success, and negative psychology. The same concepts that are so relevant to the rest of mainstream society apply just much to nerds and the highbrows. Why do you think the big business publishers and fanboy gamer culture are so successful. It is tribalism. It in some ways might be thought of as the "revenge of philosophy, psychology, humanity, and reality" against the "nerd revengers". The righteous rebellers turning into those who they were rebelling against is a very usual theme and occurrence in world history.

http://www.anyclip.com/movies/gladiator/estimating-the-situation/#!quotes/

Eich had to stop down because he put himself in a position where his opinions got in the way of him being effective. Having had an ex at a similar executive level (generally VP level) I can tell you letting your reputation slip like he let his is a death knell. If you make most of your employee's uncomfortable to work with you and a large number of your customers not wanting to do business with you... A grunt can kind of keep there head down after and lay low, but a CEO is just done. Why in the world you're bringing that up in this thread I wouldn't know.

I am not any type of supporter of Brandon Eich. That said it did seem to me that he was forced to step down despite the lack of any wrongdoing as ceo of Mozilla because of past political donations. Since it was a personal thing that had in no way involved the business that he was now working for how is it any different than this situation or even more so because this situation Zoe Quinn, Grayson, and the other developers, publishers, and journalists does involve wrongdoing at their jobs.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
It is the fault of both sides but I do not see this as mere speculation.

It's fault on both sides, but whether it was done for the purpose of "selling reviews" and who sold to who is what has everyone absolutely blowing their shit.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
Um no. If you would read up about humanities, philosophy, psychology, anthropology, political science, history, sociology, or other social sciences you would understand that many average homo sapiens are susceptible to the draw of power, success, and negative psychology. The same concepts that are so relevant to the rest of mainstream society apply just much to nerds and the highbrows. Why do you think the big business publishers and fanboy gamer culture are so successful. It is tribalism. It in some ways might be thought of as the "revenge of philosophy, psychology, humanity, and reality" against the "nerd revengers". The righteous rebellers turning into those who they were rebelling against is a very usual theme and occurrence in world history.

http://www.anyclip.com/movies/gladiator/estimating-the-situation/#!quotes/



I am not any type of supporter of Brandon Eich. That said it did seem to me that he was forced to step down despite the lack of any wrongdoing as ceo of Mozilla because of past political donations. Since it was a personal thing that had in no way involved the business that he was now working for how is it any different than this situation or even more so because this situation Zoe Quinn, Grayson, and the other developers, publishers, and journalists does involve wrongdoing at their jobs.

Hahaha, yea... you're making some pretty massive assumptions, but when you pull out occam's razor all that shit goes away.

How is the shit-storm over the "supposed" selling of reviews for sex when all we really know is that she cheated and reviews continued in the same manner they have for a decade and a half now in any way remotely comparable to someone who for certain donating money for the disenfranchisement of a minority and losing the respect the from key parts of the company he was supposed to control forced him to resign?

If this was a thread just about her being fired over her having an affair and the bad publicity that caused, then it would be a somewhat comparable topic and one could argue the nuances of that. It's not however and you're really just grasping at straws.
 
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Mar 11, 2004
23,181
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First off it is her problem because she willingly chose to get involved with corruption. And if you would watch the video you would realize that the reviewers and other developers or publishers are getting just as much blame as which Joe is getting for this scandal.

2nd I am wondering what is your opinion on Brandon Eich?

What video, that f'ing horrible first one in the OP? You mean the one that spends 9/10s going off about her? And specifically about the cheating stuff even though the guy says he doesn't even care about that? Sorry, its hard to take any of these people seriously. They're all socially maladjusted people pushing their own agendas.

Did you actually look through that stuff? The boyfriend thing is straight pathetic, its actually painful to read. Guy clearly has problems so I won't take his account totally on face value, although it does look like she treated him like s*** and I feel bad for him, but wow. The forum thing was just as painful really. Its all a bunch of he said she said garbage with no actual proof of anything and considering from what I can tell its like a site born of 4Chan castoffs, yeah I'm not exactly going to just take their view as gospel. And don't think I'm just taking her side, she seems to fit right in with all of them.

I'm actually speechless at the whole situation. At first I kinda skimmed through stuff and I thought "why are people talking about like this is some big story and OMG massive coverup!", this is a mess of garbage about a bunch of people that don't have that much relevance. But then I went back and well, it just underscored that. I don't think most sites would bother with it, partly because there's so little to actually care about in any meaningful sense, and partly because there's so little "facts" such that any writer wanting to actually try to explain the situation can't other than "female game developer (and terrible person) strings along desperately pitiful guy, then a group of male virgins castoff from the likes of 4Chan tries to claim they're being blamed for harassment unfairly with weak possibly specious evidence."

Actually the coverup part of it might've actually made for a good story (please please please let it be Gawker that was behind the closing posts and whatever), but none of the rest is noteworthy unless you're making observations about various mental issues exhibited by people online, specifically with regards to certain niche demographics.

I wish those people as a whole would all get some help.

WTF does that have to do with anything? I am wondering what your opinion on bigfoot is? It has the same relevance.

Hyperbolic insults don't prove your claim either. They do make you unsuccessful in your argument and end the discussion.



You seem confused between marketing and coverage and reviews.

Oh noes, one of the most expensive games ever made and expected to be a top seller, why does it get press? Why can't they ignore it? Because they're paid off whores, that's why!

You have proven one point - that your claim is not based in anything solid.

Aside from some of the more well known fiascoes, there's been a lot of evidence of paid trips and/or "promotional" events (they generally get press when they go wrong, see stuff like when Sony had a goat butchered and then I think they had strippers at another one?). There's a lot of that stuff and those don't get mentioned much because they're often not supposed to be, the media is just supposed to write about the game, and of course its almost always just praise. The harshest thing I think I've seen from previews of a hyped game was that "its more of the same so if you don't like that, you probably won't like that, but if you do then you'll love this one!"

Yes this stuff is everywhere, its not just in gaming. But you're completely delusional if you don't think it happens.

Here's a link that just mentions some of the prominent ones and discusses some aspects:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...how-video-game-journalism-went-off-the-rails/

That article doesn't really do it service. Frankly it pays lip service, and doesn't take into account the stuff that companies are pulling these days (effectively they're bypassing the game journalists altogether by making "fans" serve most of the roles that game journalists used to).

If you've spent any time paying attention to gaming journalism I don't know how you couldn't be aware of a lot of other stuff. Just about every gaming site has had its own problem with integrity at some point. They then apologize, make the same usual lameduck excuses, swear it was just a one time honest mistake (even though that often is clearly BS), and then things return to business as normal.

There's a lot more to this (for instance, there was another case where someone called out some review because it came off as the guy had played only a couple hours of a long RPG, and with no real proof they just tried to "well its two claims neither with proof situation", but a lot of gaming journalists have said they often don't have time to finish all the games they review), but I don't really feel like digging up all this stuff. I figure you're either deadset that people are conspiracy nutters over this, or you'll look into it and see the stuff yourself.
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,649
61
101
That is one hideous looking "girl" person. Those dudes who hit it must be the cream of the neckbeard crop... barfs all around.
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,301
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
I will say that the censorship surrounding this story across the internet is staggering. Entire subreddits were banned, auto-moderation wiped out any mention of her all over reddit, 4chan attempted to delete threads about her before the mods were overwhelmed, and only ONE news site with a story about this situation is still up. The other was 403'ed because someone complained to their host and their host took the site offline until the article is removed.

White knights and Social Justice Warriors all just need a thorough beating so they can perhaps remember what real life and hardship is about. Losers.

Yeah there was a very heavy attempt to censor the entire issue, starting with MundaneMatts original video being DMCA'd for a bogus reason, that started a backlash.

This is a classic case of the Streisand effect, people did not want this important issue to be swept under the rug, had it been allowed to be discussed with zero moderation it would probably be old news now. But the moment you try and silence several million gamers they shout louder than your ability to moderate them.

I actually think the internet (us as a collective) did a good job on this one, the news got out there and slowly we're seeing sites come back online and videos return to youtube and moderators basically give up (reddit/4chan), so far discussion here has been allowed which is good.

I'm actually speechless at the whole situation. At first I kinda skimmed through stuff and I thought "why are people talking about like this is some big story and OMG massive coverup!", this is a mess of garbage about a bunch of people that don't have that much relevance. But then I went back and well, it just underscored that. I don't think most sites would bother with it, partly because there's so little to actually care about in any meaningful sense, and partly because there's so little "facts" such that any writer wanting to actually try to explain the situation can't other than "female game developer (and terrible person) strings along desperately pitiful guy, then a group of male virgins castoff from the likes of 4Chan tries to claim they're being blamed for harassment unfairly with weak possibly specious evidence."

That's because she tried to spin this as a SJW issue, the big problem people have is that journalists are reviewing games of the people they've slept with, this is a classic conflict of interest and people aren't going to stand for it. The stuff about her private life isn't really all that relevant, it's just ancillary drama. What made it so big is that various places have started to censor talk of this and it's covering up the issue, which people also wont stand for.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Aside from some of the more well known fiascoes, there's been a lot of evidence of paid trips and/or "promotional" events (they generally get press when they go wrong, see stuff like when Sony had a goat butchered and then I think they had strippers at another one?). There's a lot of that stuff and those don't get mentioned much because they're often not supposed to be, the media is just supposed to write about the game, and of course its almost always just praise. The harshest thing I think I've seen from previews of a hyped game was that "its more of the same so if you don't like that, you probably won't like that, but if you do then you'll love this one!"

Yes this stuff is everywhere, its not just in gaming. But you're completely delusional if you don't think it happens.

Here's a link that just mentions some of the prominent ones and discusses some aspects:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...how-video-game-journalism-went-off-the-rails/

That article doesn't really do it service. Frankly it pays lip service, and doesn't take into account the stuff that companies are pulling these days (effectively they're bypassing the game journalists altogether by making "fans" serve most of the roles that game journalists used to).

If you've spent any time paying attention to gaming journalism I don't know how you couldn't be aware of a lot of other stuff. Just about every gaming site has had its own problem with integrity at some point. They then apologize, make the same usual lameduck excuses, swear it was just a one time honest mistake (even though that often is clearly BS), and then things return to business as normal.

There's a lot more to this (for instance, there was another case where someone called out some review because it came off as the guy had played only a couple hours of a long RPG, and with no real proof they just tried to "well its two claims neither with proof situation", but a lot of gaming journalists have said they often don't have time to finish all the games they review), but I don't really feel like digging up all this stuff. I figure you're either deadset that people are conspiracy nutters over this, or you'll look into it and see the stuff yourself.

You quoted my later post but ignored what I said before it, about how previews are where the marketing hype goes, and how the poster was mixing up previews and reviews - and then you go on to do exactly the same thing. I said you need to understand that previews are marketing hype. It's very common for a review to say how wonderful a game will be and the review to say it's horrible.

I didn't say there has never been any corruption of reviews. Someone says 'gaming media is garbage and corrupt', I say no, I think generally it's not, and someone - you - says 'no, look at this case and that case' as is proving there have been exceptions - which there have - proves the claim that it's generally corrupt.

'Doctors are all perverts who molest their patients.' 'No, generally they're not'. 'Oh ya? Look at this case and that case! It happens!' 'Yes, it has as exception, it's not the usual case.'

A reviewer not playing much of a game before reviewing it might be a quality issue, but it is NOT corruption that proves 'the gaming media is corrupt and reviews are always sold.'

Do reviewers have to finish a game to have a useful review? I don't think it's usually necessary. It can be, mostly in the rare case the late game affects the game quality.

In one of the clearest cases I can think of, the game Lionheart would get a very different review for the first half than the endgame.

But every review I can remember for the game said that.
 
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