Confused About My RMA Rights

[Twitch29]

Anyone that’s read my other two threads will realise I’ve not been having much luck with my Seagate drives. This prompted me to run SeaTools on all my Seagate drives. I now have four drives to RMA. Three with a Seatools code and one bricked, unable to run Seatools.

I’ve also installed Acronis Drive Monitor. This tells me all my drives except the 7200.11’s I’m still running are OK. The three 7200.11’s I’m still using all pass Seatools but all have Reallocated Sector Count and Spin Retry Count showing as Critical in Drive Monitor.

I contacted Seagate customer support regarding RMA for these drives and was told not until reallocated sector count reached 300. I was free to return the drives if I wished but If they passed Seatools they’d be sent straight back to me.

Is this correct? Just doesn’t seem right to me…

 

[fffblackmage]

Double check their warranty statement.

I would assume it much like buying an LCD. Some manufacturers have a zero dead pixel policy, but most don't. In your case, you have a some reallocated sectors, but your drive is still in working order (according to Seagate specs). Also, I don't think any company would trust what some other 3rd party software says.

 

[Blain]

I now have four drives to RMA. Three with a Seatools code and one bricked, unable to run Seatools.

Do you have any AVR UPS protection on incoming power to your PC?

 

[corkyg]

Second Blain's quetion. That many drive failures suggests something is not right in your system.

 

[Twitch29]

Do you have any AVR UPS protection on incoming power to your PC?

Second Blain's quetion. That many drive failures suggests something is not right in your system.

No UPS and my system in fine. I have a large collection of drives, 7200.9's, 7200.10's, 7200.11's, caviar blues and greens. All drives apart from the 7200.11's and my oldest drive, a 7200.9, have absolutely nothing wrong with them.

All of the 7200.11's are knackered. Surely this suggests a problem with the 7200.11's, not my system.

This forum has many threads concerning the abysmal quality of the 7200.11's. There are many people that have had all or most of their 7200.11's fail.

 

[Jimmah]

I think every one of our .11's at work died, maybe one or two are still up out of 18. Not a single .9 has problems. Also, I just RMA'd a .11 that was being weird, 3500 bad sectors and counting.

I will still buy Seagate drives, a bad batch or poor model doesn't mean the whole company is bad. Good luck with your RMA's.

 

[Burner27]

I agree with Blain about this. You say your system is 'fine' but have you checked your incoming power supply? You may have 'dirty power' supplying your PC and consequently, your PSU may not be able to compensate for the fluctuations. Who makes your PSU? How old is it? Have you checked to see what the output voltages are on the various rails to ensure they are withing 'normal' specs?

You may indeed be correct that your luck with the 7200.11 series of drives is bad, and your 7200 series of drives are faulty - but you should rule out your PSU as the culprit before b*tching to Seagate.

 

[Elixer]

For the RMA, just enter your seatools errorcode, on the form, and fill it out.
You will get back a refurbished unit that may or may not be DOA, and comes with a 90 day warranty.

You don't really have to ask tech support if you should return it, as long as you got the error code from their own utility.

 

[Zap]

you should return it, as long as you got the error code from their own utility.

This.

All drives of any brand/model will probably have reallocated sectors to some degree.

All drive manufacturers (not just Seagate) usually require one of these as reason for RMA:
1) Drive doesn't detect.
2) Drive doesn't spin up.
3) Their software (available for download from their site) gives an error code.

 

[Twitch29]

I will still buy Seagate drives, a bad batch or poor model doesn't mean the whole company is bad

Same here. Have just purchased a Barracuda XT that is now holding the data from two of the drives I have an error code for.

Who makes your PSU? How old is it? Have you checked to see what the output voltages are on the various rails to ensure they are withing 'normal' specs?

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1207&ID=1507
PSU is Thermaltake Toughpower Cable Management 700W, about 18 months old. Voltages in BIOS are as they should be. I do have a multimeter laying around somewhere but doesn't seem like a good idea to go sticking probes into electrical contacts if you're unsure about what you're doing.

I would have thought if my power was causing the problems it would affect all drives, not just the 7200.11. I have three times as many non 7200.11 drives...

For the RMA, just enter your seatools errorcode

It's the three drives that pass seatools but have SMART errors I don't know what to do with.

All drives of any brand/model will probably have reallocated sectors to some degree. All drive manufacturers (not just Seagate) usually require one of these as reason for RMA: 1) Drive doesn't detect. 2) Drive doesn't spin up. 3) Their software (available for download from their site) gives an error code.

Kinda makes sense, and is the type of reply I was looking for with this thread. Have to disagree with all drives have reallocated sectors to some degree. I have 20 drives still in use. Only these 3 have reallocated sectors, the other 17 are perfect.

I'd really like to hear from anyone that has any experience RMAing a drive due to reallocated sector count but that passed the drive manufacturers diagnostic utility.

Having to wait until count reaches 300 seems like a ridiculously high number to me. Let's not forget that each reallocated sector degrades performance.

 

[BTA]

I've sent drives back to Seagate without a seatools code (thereis a generic one for no code available) and got a refurbished back without issue.

 

[Twitch29]

thereis a generic one for no code available

Yes, I know about the generic codes. I have to use one for my bricked drive. Their customer service rep told me I was free to send the drives back using one of these codes but warned me they would just run seatools on the drives and send back any that passed, which they all do.

Why did you use a generic code?

 

[BTA]

Because the drive started clicking but passed all the tests in Seatools.

They still just sent me a new refurb drive (different serial numbers, and this one doesn't click).

Most of the time they are too lazy to bother testing your drive right then and there and just ship you out a refurb as soon as they get yours, and your drive goes on the pile of other returns for testing/fixing later.

I've never bothered calling them btw, just fill out paperwork, send in drive, done.

 

[Burner27]

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1207&ID=1507
PSU is Thermaltake Toughpower Cable Management 700W, about 18 months old. Voltages in BIOS are as they should be. I do have a multimeter laying around somewhere but doesn't seem like a good idea to go sticking probes into electrical contacts if you're unsure about what you're doing.

I would have thought if my power was causing the problems it would affect all drives, not just the 7200.11. I have three times as many non 7200.11 drives....

I would defintely use the multimeter to ensure your voltages are correct. I wouldn't trust BIOS settings at all. They do makes PSU testers that can identify problems easier than sticking a probe into the various connectors.

I would agree that all of your other drives should be affected as well but each drive has its own 'tolerances' when it comes to power fluctuations. For peace of mind, I would test the PSU. I would also get a Kill-o-watt tester to make sure you a getting the correct voltages coming from the wall socket.

 

[Twitch29]

Because the drive started clicking

mmm... I don't think anyone would disagree that a clicking drive is a knackered drive, but the hard drive industry have managed to convince an awful lot of people that reallocated sectors are totally OK. It'd be interesting to see this challenged in the European courts.

Reminds me of the TV adds the MAFIAA have been running in the UK for the past 4 or 5 years. These ads claim that downloading copyright protected material is stealing. They've run the ads so many times, they now have most of the population believing them. I have a couple of solicitor friends that inform me any solicitor going into court with this argument would probably never work again. They find even the suggestion it's stealing extremely comical. Doesn't stop people believing what they're being told though!

I would defintely use the multimeter to ensure your voltages are correct. I wouldn't trust BIOS settings at all. They do makes PSU testers that can identify problems easier than sticking a probe into the various connectors.
I would agree that all of your other drives should be affected as well but each drive has its own 'tolerances' when it comes to power fluctuations. For peace of mind, I would test the PSU. I would also get a Kill-o-watt tester to make sure you a getting the correct voltages coming from the wall socket.

You've talked me into it, I'll dig out the multimeter just to be sure. If anyone can provide a link to a quality fool-proof beginers guide it'd be much appreciated.

 

[Elixer]

Yes, I know about the generic codes. I have to use one for my bricked drive. Their customer service rep told me I was free to send the drives back using one of these codes but warned me they would just run seatools on the drives and send back any that passed, which they all do.

Why did you use a generic code?

Wait, there are two ways to RMA the drive. The better option is pony up the $10 and do a advanced RMA. They ship drive, you ship drive back in same box and use the label in the box. No extra charges besides the original $10.

If you don't do that.. well, I don't see why you wouldn't, it ends up being a better deal than you shipping to them first.

 

[Zap]

The better option is pony up the $10 and do a advanced RMA. They ship drive, you ship drive back in same box and use the label in the box. No extra charges besides the original $10.

If you don't do that.. well, I don't see why you wouldn't, it ends up being a better deal than you shipping to them first.

:thumbsup:

That $10 covers return shipping plus the "approved" box. Nothing worse than having your RMA denied due to not packing it per their requirements.

 

[Twitch29]

Wait, there are two ways to RMA the drive

Advanced RMA not available in the UK. We get screwed on a lot of things like this. I presume it's because the UK market it tiny compared to the US.

 

[bryanW1995]

Uk is about 20% of the population of the US, and anybody with a major business in the western hemisphere would be foolish to ignore that market. Also, it's only about 1300 miles further (2 hrs) to London than to LA, and most of us here in the states probably have more in common with Brits than SoCal, anyway. I think that one of the consequences of increased globalization in the future will be a gradual convergence of cultures between europe/north America/other English speaking countries.

All of which means that you guys should be getting advanced rma's someday soon.

 

[Zap]

Advanced RMA not available in the UK. We get screwed on a lot of things like this. I presume it's because the UK market it tiny compared to the US.

My guess would be that manufacturers are based here, not in the UK, thus a logistics problem.

 

[exar333]

Uk is about 20% of the population of the US, and anybody with a major business in the western hemisphere would be foolish to ignore that market. Also, it's only about 1300 miles further (2 hrs) to London than to LA, and most of us here in the states probably have more in common with Brits than SoCal, anyway. I think that one of the consequences of increased globalization in the future will be a gradual convergence of cultures between europe/north America/other English speaking countries.

All of which means that you guys should be getting advanced rma's someday soon.

Have you ever mailed something within the US vs. Internationally. Yeah, there is a difference. Not only is there a great ocean in-between, that is tough to drive on, but the cost is much higher.

 

[exar333]

I haven't used the Seagate tool (don't buy them actually) but does it display the SSN when it fails/shows the error code? If so, take a picture and include that in the RMA information (if possible). It would always be good to have as backup, in case they either refuse the RMA, or send the same drive back.

 

[Twitch29]

My guess would be that manufacturers are based here, not in the UK

RMA address is Europe. Haven't got round to sending any back yet but think it's Holland. Could even be a UK address, I know they have a data recovery centre here. I'll find out soon enough anyway.