Confused but fearless

[graphics geek]

Greetings all. First post here and looking help... I will try to keep it as brief as possible.

My background is graphics for over 20 years, mostly motion 2D, some 3D and absolutely NO Gaming or AMD. Typically my systems have 2 to 3 Adobe applications open all day long. I have built systems in the past and time to build another. I do not plan on OC?ing but have no trouble jumping into the BIOS.

Hopefully that will give the experts an idea of the workflow used for this build. There are a few certain?s although nothing is in stone. I will pay for quality keeping future proofing in mind. I prefer to find the best price/performance ratio on the market, seems to be the Quad 6600/DDR2 currently. After all I do get paid by the hour.

On to some questions:

1. 1. Using ICH9R can I set up say SATA 1 and 2 as my boot/data and SATA 3,4,5,6 as RAID 0 or 5? Just want to know if you can mix and match the HDD configurations? Suggestions or comments? I would like to employ a Raid for short for HD video edits and previews of HD animations.
   
   2. Motherboards? I am reading way to much regarding P35, X38 and so on. I?m not looking for bells and whistles here, just proven boards. Are 965/975 more stable today? My last two builds were BX and 850. Both outdated at the time but worked reliably.
   
   3. RAM??? Talk about confusing. We can go around this one after the next topic.
   
   4. OS??? Something tells me to stick with what has worked. XP 32 bit. I want jump the 3GB Ram deal but not even sure I can with XP/Vista 64 bit? Thoughts? It seems 50/50 these days with people using Adobe products with out issues on 64 bit OS. Adobe does not even support it. Will I be able to load up my machine with good RAM? DDR2/1066?

I realize this is so much to read for busy people who have their own issues to tend to so I appreciate any info that you fine folk can pass along. Even if it just your configuration. About the only certainty is the video card will be some form of NVIDIA Quadro, probably 1700, paired with HD/SD Capture card, perhaps Blackmagic Decklink HD. Both PCIe 16 cards. And budget somewhere in the 2-2,500 (not including the cards mentioned) Thanks for your time.

 

[sparks]

1. Not too familiar with the built in RAID performance, but I would avoid RAID 0 in a production environment due to greater threat of data loss, unless you backup religiously.
2. P35 will give you the best bang for the buck at the moment, I hear the Gigabyte boards are good bang for the buck models.
3. Not overclocking? Almost any RAM will do, just read the reviews at Neweggg.
4. You know what apps you will be using, check to see if they have 64bit versions. You may benefit from 64bit OS.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

1. Not sure, when you've narrowed down the motherboards to a couple, download the manual from the mfg website and read the sections on raid setup

2. P35/DDR2 are the sweetspot for performance and stability

3. If not overclocking any DDR2-800 will do fine

4. For your usage I would definately make the leap to a 64bit OS and 4gb's ram, as cheap as ram is and as benificial to your applications it would be silly not to. And yes with the newer chipsets like P35 and a 64bit OS you can use more than 4gbs.


The Q6600 is the price/performance king at the moment, but its replacement the Q9450 is due to release in the next 60days. And it will run faster and cooler and use less energy than the Q6600 at about the same price.

 

[graphics geek]

Thanks Sparks,
Raid 0 is pretty much required for capture of video. All work files will be stored on another drive and backed up regularly. The video captured can easily be recaptured via the original tape. I am not to concerned about that. Just the set up of the raid and if the sata ports can be split up

P35 is looking like the choice, as for overclocking i really never explored the options. Not sure it would benefit my media production like it does gaming. Thoughts?

I have been checking the Adobe boards and filled with horror stories that seem to be getting worked out. Will Vista 64 see more than 4gb ram? Often times i am working with large HD images with much processing to be added.

The research goes on. Thanks again

 

[graphics geek]

GuitarDaddy, nice icon. Thanks for the reply.

I have downloaded the Asus P5k Deluxe manual. States how to set it up without mentioning if you can vary the SATA ports. I'll post that on ASUS forum. Read some good/bad reviews about that board. Same with others i guess.

I can certainly hang on the build, but i read it should have been released already. Although I dont believe it will be as low priced as Q6600. Gotta jump in somewhere. I have the time over the next month to build it.

After reading a lenthy post on Vista 64 it is time to bite the bullet. I have 3 XP machines as backup until the new build comes online.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Originally posted by: graphics geek
Will Vista 64 see more than 4gb ram? Often times i am working with large HD images with much processing to be added.

Yes it will, in fact I have 64bit Vista with 4gb of RAM in my rig.

If you will benefit from it, you can max out P35 limit and put FOUR 2gb sticks in mobo for 8 gb RAM. But only if you benefit from that.

 

[Modelworks]

I do work in the 3d arena using applications like 3dsmax, Maya and heres a rundown of the workstations we use:

Mostly core2 and quad core intels
4GB memory up to 16GB average is DDR2 800
Raid on some, but also scsi
last boards that were added to the workforce were P35 boards and are working great.
Video cards range from 7900GTX to quadro
Winxp X64 tried vista, too many application problems, xp x64 works without issue.

Adobe apps have the 64bit os check set, even though they are not true 64 bit applications, they do make use of the extra memory, just not as efficiently.

 

[graphics geek]

If you will benefit from it, you can max out P35 limit and put FOUR 2gb sticks in mobo for 8 gb RAM. But only if you benefit from that.

I read differences in many of the forums whether the apps will use the ram. Seems like the only way to figure it out is to bite the bullet and experiment. Which i dont mind to much.

Winxp X64 tried vista, too many application problems, xp x64 works without issue.

I've read this but also willing to jump since i have some stable XP systems that i can still produce on. Can you list what apps gave you the most difficulty? Which boards did you add? Gigabyte? Intel? Asus?

Video card is not to much of a concern for me, i am happy with either also, i used (still currently using) dpsReality card for external monitoring in component. Can you tell me what you use to monitor out of 3D Studio Max? or AE if you use it. dps has a plugin that worked well out of Studio Max.

 

[imported_wired247]

For your application, whether you want raid-0 (which I'm still not convinced is a good idea) or raid-5 (safety + almost as fast as raid-0)

I'd recommend for you to invest in a decent raid card.


it's your business what you do, but if you are doing serious work on your computer, I would not f--- around with onboard raid, just my $0.02

also, since RAM is so cheap and since you don't need to overclock or anything, might as well go with a good 8GB (4x2GB) of ram for vista64...


If you need the fastest hard drives and also data safety, I would skip scsi u320 as it will probably be replaced by serial attached SCSI (SAS). Look at some SAS controllers (good ones for $600-700), and invest in some (4 or more) 15krpm SAS hard drives. the SAS controllers are backward compatible with SATA II so that is a plus, and these controllers are easy to set up as well.

The downside is they are very expensive, and not much storage. but, if you are running raid 5 or raid 6 you can always scale your array with more HD's.

 

[PolymerTim]

Given your budget and wanting to have the build last a while i would agree you might as well get 8GB DDR2 RAM now. Its never been cheaper and, given your business, if you don't use a lot of it now, you probably will in the future. I say, as long as your applications work in Vista 64-bit, make the jump. If you're certain your not going to overclock then you can go with any good quality DDR2-667 (reputable manufacturer, 4-4-4-12 timings, and 1.8V). But if you will even consider overclocking in the future, then get DDR2-800 and you're set.

One RAM suggestion: It would be hard to go wrong with 8 GB for < $200 after rebates (Patriot PDC24G6400LLK). Hereis a review that shows it even overclocks reasonably well.

Overclocking takes a little fiddling to find the right settings, but if you're willing to spend a little time on it and get help in these forums, I think you'll find it well worth it. I think it is safe to say that overclocking is much easier and safer than it used to be and with the type of work you're doing, I think you will see a big difference.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: graphics geek

Winxp X64 tried vista, too many application problems, xp x64 works without issue.

I've read this but also willing to jump since i have some stable XP systems that i can still produce on. Can you list what apps gave you the most difficulty? Which boards did you add? Gigabyte? Intel? Asus?

Video card is not to much of a concern for me, i am happy with either also, i used (still currently using) dpsReality card for external monitoring in component. Can you tell me what you use to monitor out of 3D Studio Max? or AE if you use it. dps has a plugin that worked well out of Studio Max.

The boards that were added are Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L.
I even built a pc on one of these for a home pc.
Onboard raid wasn't needed since there are dedicated cards for that.

The most problems were with 3dsmax.
It did not want to display correctly and often would have viewport corruption requiring a restart. This is with 3dsmax 2008.

Other applications that had problems were eyeons fusion, which actually crashed and was completely unuseable. Softimage CAT which wouldn't even install.

I also had a few dongles for hardware keys that the drivers wouldn't work on.

Display for 3dsmax is 7900gtx cards and quadrofx 3500.
Some vista specific issues with quadro drivers that will not be fixed according to nvidia because its an os problem.


OpenGL Application Issues.
Mixed GDI and OpenGL rendering does not work.
Effects Maya 7.01

Applications not supported under vista with quadro drivers:
GLperf
3dsmax 8
Catia V5R15
PTC CDRS 2001


I don't know about AE because we never tried it with vista.

All the content is uncompressed frames in tga format so we don't use anything like the dps cards.

 

[graphics geek]

I think you will see a big difference.

Thanks for the input, and the ram suggestions. i think i will eventually explore the world of overclocking on say my older machines first, once i get this one finely tuned. I'm fairly anal regarding keeping systems update and clean. it has been a proven success. there really is no budget here although since i know within 18-24 months i'll want another build. Thus i tend to stay away from the $4-6K boxes. What percentage increase do you think will be gained safely? Does this require the CPU to be overclocked as well?

All the content is uncompressed frames in tga format so we don't use anything like the dps cards.

Cool, good stuff to know, although i rarely work with any of the mentioned software. I am still with Max 6, and use it maybe 10 times a year, I mainly use AE. I still will need a way to preview on HDTV. Blackmagic has some interesting boards although i havent seen them in action. Intensity is cool but limiting. Thanks again

I might just flip a coin on the motherboard. Asus P5k Deluxe or Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P. They seem to have all i need an more.

One topic i found that confusing (many more to come) is that of Retail vs OEM purchase of Vista 64. Any experieces/knowlege are greatly appreciated.