Congressional Budget Office - ObamaCare creates ‘disincentive’ to work

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Nov 25, 2013
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As I pointed out, because conservatives are traditionalists. That varies by culture. In Russia, for example, some people pine for the traditions of Communism to come back. In context, they're conservative, even reactionary. In their own cultures, so are Islamists & Teahadists, too.

Conservatives resist change to their traditions or want things to go back to some idealized vision of the past when their traditions held more sway.

I understand what conservatives are/what conservative ideologies are.

The point is, none of those examples that were given are because "Conservative". The point being raised deserved an honest answer and you didn't give one.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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I understand what conservatives are/what conservative ideologies are.

The point is, none of those examples that were given are because "Conservative". The point being raised deserved an honest answer and you didn't give one.

I think maybe you missed post #272.
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
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White House: It's A Good Thing That Obamacare Will Drive 2.5 Million Americans Out Of The Workforce

Bored with your job? No worries—now you can quit, thanks to the generosity of other taxpayers. Want to retire early? No worries—now you can, thanks to the generosity of other taxpayers, and also thanks to the higher premiums that young people will be forced to pay on your behalf. The White House’s apparently sincere belief—echoed by progressive pundits at MSNBC, The New Republic, and the L.A. Times—is that it’s a good thing for fewer Americans to be economically self-sufficient.

If you’re one of the chumps out there who still toils away at a challenging job, and still pays taxes so that others can “pursue their dreams,” you have a right to resent the White House’s argument.
I don't understand all of the complaining. I mean, the White House says this is a wonderful thing. Would they lie to you?

Unless, of course, you are one of those chumps that is still working and still paying taxes so that others can "pursue their dreams."

Maybe I can understand a little if you are a young working male that has to pay more to subsidize health care for women and old people.

But who are you compared to the powerful people in the White House?

Can't you just shut up and pay your taxes. Other people need that money to "pursue their dreams."

Uno
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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The simplistic lameness of the conservative whining in this thread is appalling.

I rather suspect that this will actually reduce total govt subsidies. Really. On one side, you have people who could afford to exit the workforce with small subsidy, often older successful people who've worked their whole adult lives. On the other, you have people who would enter the workforce if jobs were available, younger people with families, often heavily subsidized.

Which is where we come right back around to the conservative delusion that there are enough jobs for everybody. Quite the contrary. This better allows those who need jobs to obtain them. It creates upward mobility openings in the market at the same time, which is the only kind of trickledown that's really meaningful to working people.


Figure it out. Who needs a job more? Boomers who've done well but are a few years & a few dollars short of retirement, or younger people in their 20's & 30's who are un- and under- employed?

It's not job creation, but it might as well be for the people who will get to work or get to move up.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
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The simplistic lameness of the conservative whining in this thread is appalling.

I rather suspect that this will actually reduce total govt subsidies. Really. On one side, you have people who could afford to exit the workforce with small subsidy, often older successful people who've worked their whole adult lives. On the other, you have people who would enter the workforce if jobs were available, younger people with families, often heavily subsidized.

Which is where we come right back around to the conservative delusion that there are enough jobs for everybody. Quite the contrary. This better allows those who need jobs to obtain them. It creates upward mobility openings in the market at the same time, which is the only kind of trickledown that's really meaningful to working people.


Figure it out. Who needs a job more? Boomers who've done well but are a few years & a few dollars short of retirement, or younger people in their 20's & 30's who are un- and under- employed?

It's not job creation, but it might as well be for the people who will get to work or get to move up.

What about people other than boomers?

Is it good that they won't be working?
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
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The simplistic lameness of the conservative whining in this thread is appalling.

I rather suspect that this will actually reduce total govt subsidies. Really. On one side, you have people who could afford to exit the workforce with small subsidy, often older successful people who've worked their whole adult lives. On the other, you have people who would enter the workforce if jobs were available, younger people with families, often heavily subsidized.

Which is where we come right back around to the conservative delusion that there are enough jobs for everybody. Quite the contrary. This better allows those who need jobs to obtain them. It creates upward mobility openings in the market at the same time, which is the only kind of trickledown that's really meaningful to working people.


Figure it out. Who needs a job more? Boomers who've done well but are a few years & a few dollars short of retirement, or younger people in their 20's & 30's who are un- and under- employed?

It's not job creation, but it might as well be for the people who will get to work or get to move up.

Are you that dense?

The topic of the discussion is this:

Working harder, smarter, and more hours, is getting you less and less ahead of the person who decides to work fewer hours, or not work at all. The rewards of these programs are going towards those who work less.

Yes this will have more openings for people who want to work more, but I do wholly question your statement these are "upward mobility openings".


So the question then is, is this new base level of living that's being set, sufficient? For me it is not. And it is becoming increasingly difficult to break out and move upwards. That is the disincentive.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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Your weak attempts to pit Americans against each other are not going to work. United we stand!
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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Are you that dense?

The topic of the discussion is this:

Working harder, smarter, and more hours, is getting you less and less ahead of the person who decides to work fewer hours, or not work at all. The rewards of these programs are going towards those who work less.

Re-read post #1 of this thread, for starters. You merely interpret the OP to suit your purposes.

Yes this will have more openings for people who want to work more, but I do wholly question your statement these are "upward mobility openings".


So the question then is, is this new base level of living that's being set, sufficient? For me it is not. And it is becoming increasingly difficult to break out and move upwards. That is the disincentive.

I think you misunderstand who will find this attractive. The vast majority of families don't make enough money for it to be an issue, even couples without children.

Here's how the subsidy cutoffs work, kinda. I disagree with the sharp cutoffs, which is fixable, in any case-

http://www.valuepenguin.com/2013/07/aca-subsidy-cliff-may-incentivize-working-less

People who are in the position to benefit are those who can downsize their incomes to slot in just under the cutoffs and whose overhead is low enough to allow for that. It's still upscale from median incomes. A family of 4 needs to have an AGI over $94K to lose their subsidy, an income level somewhere in the 80th percentile.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-individual-income-tax-data-0

Lots of possible scenarios, but I figure it to be most attractive to empty nesters who have achieved some net worth & low overhead just by being prudent & steady. Paid off the house, the cabin, the college loans & everything they own, which is substantial. They have savings & investments, maybe qualify for a pension when they quit working. Getting by on $62K AGI generally isn't difficult when you have no bills. One partner may be able to retire pretty painlessly, or go for part time work instead. In order to get there, those people are probably journeymen at what they do or mid managers, so when they exit there's room for somebody to move up, and room for somebody else to move in to employment in a cascading fashion.

And, of course, we need to remember that most Americans are covered by employer group plans, anyway.
 
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unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
0

President Obama lives in Alice’s world.
The unemployment rate fell in January, which ought to be good news. But it isn’t. Over the past decade we’ve fallen into a strange and puzzling wonderland of opposites, where “economic recovery” comes with no growth and unemployment rates drop but people aren’t working.

Such a wonderland was discovered by Alice in Lewis Carroll’s playful tale. “If I had a world of my own,” Alice said, “everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn’t.”...

After years of standing in unemployment lines, unable to find work, millions have given up. Only 63 percent of the population is currently employed or looking for work, down from 66 percent when Mr. Obama took office.

In the past year an additional 2.5 million Americans under the age of 55 abandoned the search for a job.

This year, 2.5 million people stopped looking for work.

Only 63% of the population is working or looking for work.

This is Obama's recovery?

Uno
 

Generator

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
793
0
0
If you want people to work offer more than a peasant toil for pseudo healthcare. The Republican understands very little, but they do have a system for which they abide by. Its a one-two punch of peasantry and subjugation from which their whole world is based. In this world you defecate on the employee with poor wage and offer a mirage of healthcare. The workers under these slavers/employers are honest people and hard working who will tell you exactly why they do the job.

For the healthcare!

What do you call a job that exists only due to healthcare? Its a job that has no business being. For without this lousy entrapment, the job lock would have no claim on these people. To support a system which is built on suffering and subjugation is a sad admission. Luckily the great emancipator Obama has freed the white man from this servitude. Across country, every day oppressed peasant whites are being freed from their employer's healthcare yoke. Fuck them and fuck their jobs. They serve as much purpose as a pyramid in a sandy desert.

The 2 million freed from pointless purpose will create 10 millions jobs as gratitude for being liberated to live a like a human being.
 
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