Congressman Foley resigned

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imported_michaelpatrick33

Platinum Member
Jun 19, 2004
2,364
0
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What this guy did is awful, but trying to draw a comparison to Republicans because of his actions are absurd.

If all Republicans are "closet gays and pedophiles" because of this then all Democrats cheat on their wives with 21 year old interns etc etc etc

BTW: What ever happened to you guys defending people for their personal behavior? How many times did we hear that what Clinton did doesn't mater cause it was a "personal affair"? Now that you have a Republican perhaps breaking the law over a personal affair you want to fry him and everyone he's ever known?

:roll: Clinton lied about a personal affair which we (the American people and Republican party had no business getting involved with). Quite frankly it is and was assanine. I don't give a rat's *ss what Clinton did with an intern. Morality? What hypocrisy. The liberals in this thread calling the actions of one Republican an indicator of the whole of the Republican party are intellectually challenged fanatics (ie trolls) but your bringing up Clinton and the Democrat's argument that it was a private affair as a comparison to this event is even more ridiculous. This man violated a minor apparently (not physically) whereas Clinton had a sexual affair and lied about it (I sure as h*ll would have thought about lying if I was put into that situation and any Republican who says otherwise is lying their *ss off.

This is not a party issue. This is about one man and an apparent abuse. Period. No liberal generalizations about Conservatives and vice versa serve any real purpose here other than to pander to their own self-congradulatory party lines.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
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Craig...
"The crimes happened under his authority. Major crimes. "

We can go round and round on this for ever.
How about Clinton and the Chinese money scandal?
Taking money from a foreign government, major crime?
Al Gore going to a fundraiser at a Buddhist temple, major crime?

Clinton was impeached for what he did wrong, the Democratically controlled congress did not even try to impeach Reagan, I think that is a big difference when comparing their behavior.

Next topic please.
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
I think it's sad that homosexuals have to hide their sexuality to be in public life. I probably totally disagree with this guy politically, but he shouldn't have to hide who he is, just because he felt the call to serve his country. But yes the correspondance with the boy was totally out of line, and he deserves to be punished for it. Homosexual is one thing, pedophile is a whole other ball game though.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33
This is not a party issue. This is about one man and an apparent abuse. Period. No liberal generalizations about Conservatives and vice versa serve any real purpose here other than to pander to their own self-congradulatory party lines.
Well said, I actually deleted a comment I made because I thought it was another Democrat v Republican bash.
This should be about the actions of one man, not the party he represents.
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
They looked into the event, Foley lied, since they had no proof of anything wrong they could do nothing more but slap him on the wrist and tell him to be a good little boy.
Its definately not so simple.

As a member of Congress, Foley was gregarious and charming and befriended the pages, the teen-agers who serve as the Capitol's official messengers.

"I was told by a few interns to be careful about Foley," Will Humble of California, a 2005 page, told the Times last year.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/09/30/Worldandnation/Lawmaker_quits_amid_s.shtml

It definately appears there was plenty of information about what sort of conduct Foley was involved with going around Washington D.C., and at a minimum Republican members of the House Page Board didn't investigate the incident carefully enough. (Based on news reports so far the Democrat on the committee was not informed of this allegation.)
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: judasmachine
I think it's sad that homosexuals have to hide their sexuality to be in public life. I probably totally disagree with this guy politically, but he shouldn't have to hide who he is, just because he felt the call to serve his country. But yes the correspondance with the boy was totally out of line, and he deserves to be punished for it.
Foley was "outed" in 2003, despite that Republicans still re-elected him. So much for Republican hate gays huh?

If you want to be disgusted go read about the gay press attacks on him in 2003 when he was running for senate and their efforts to "out" him. It seems private behavior is only private until someone wants to score political points against you.

BTW: none of what I said above releases Foley of responsibility for his actions in regards to this 16 year old page, there is no excuse for what he did.


 

strummer

Senior member
Feb 1, 2006
208
0
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: strummer
If latest news accounts hold true, then Hastert has known for almost a year. Ditto for the page's Louisiana congressman.

I think we are just at the tip of this thing. There is going to be a frenzy for a week or two. Hastert is going to go down with this. Most defintiely his leadership position, and probably his seat in November as well.
Keep dreaming...
Foley resigns from Congress over e-mails
Shimkus said that in late 2005 he learned ? through information passed along by Alexander's office ? about an e-mail exchange that August in which Foley asked about the youngster's well-being after Hurricane Katrina and what he wanted for his birthday and requested a photograph.

"Congressman Foley told the (House) clerk and me that he was simply acting as a mentor ... and that nothing inappropriate had occurred," Shimkus said.

Foley was ordered to cease all contact with the former page and assured Shimkus he would do so, the statement said. He also was advised to watch his conduct with current and former House pages, and he gave assurance he would do so, Shimkus said. He added that here were no further complaints.
They looked into the event, Foley lied, since they had no proof of anything wrong they could do nothing more but slap him on the wrist and tell him to be a good little boy.



We don't know the whole story yet. From the news so far we know that Foley was bad enough that pages were being warned off about his creepy behavior. Now if what he was doing was innocent in the Leadership's eyes, why the need to warn the pages? And the Democrat on the page oversight committee was kept in the dark about Foley. Like I previously said, this is the start of a feeding frenzy. The investigation alone is going to be on the front pages for days, if not weeks.

Hastert is going to be in trouble. Wait and see. That partisan index advantage of 13 isn't going to be nearly enough if he was trying to protect Foley to the detriment of some 15 and 16 year old pages. Hastert will claim innocence or ignorance for sure, but then we have the matter of that pesky little investigation that will spill the truth. If he gets caught lying about what he knew, when he knew it, and about protecting Foley and his seat, then he is going to lose - and it isn't even going to be close. Wouldn't be surprised to see him pushed out of his leadership position in an attempt to change the spotlight and limit collateral damage to the GOP. The GOP will do whatever it takes to eliminate the chance that this could become some resonating narrative, ala the House post office fiasco in the early '90's.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
Originally posted by: chowderhead
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Todd33
How come the party of Homophobes is full of closet gays and pedophiles?

They said he would not run for re-election, he did not resign - this was MSNBC abuout 45 minutes ago.

Yah, I mean it's not like he was banging an intern and lied about it or anything and refused to resign. What really matters is that he belongs to a party that says you should have morals. It's perfectly OK to not have morals, just don't belong to the party that ascribes to them. Plenty of room for partisans, bigots and pedophiles in the democrat party, troll.

Edit: and for the record, sounds like a good riddance, there's no room for pedophiles in politics or anywhere, closeted or not. I personally don't care about the politics of it, but if it gives you a chubby, cest la vie.

Hot tongued, but pretty much to the same point I would have made. :thumbsup:

Peas in the pedophilia pod vs philandering consenting adults . . . hmm . . . yeah no difference at all.:roll:

The GOP isn't a party that says you should have morals. It's a party that says you should have THEIR morals . . . with exceptions. If you happen to represent a blue state, it's OK to support abortion rights. If you are in a tight race, it's OK to pander to racists. If you've gotta win in the Bible Belt, by all means pander to religious bigots . . . you know the ones that think THEIR God is a registered Republican. That 'thou shalt not kill' . . . merely a suggestion unless you've got a really good reason . . . say for instance we don't like that country's leader.

So for the record . . . when were the leader's of the party of morals . . . going to say (better yet DO) something about Foley?


The Christian Coalition may want to take back the 84% rating Foley got in2004 from them.
The yes vote on the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996 may have helped that percentage.

Are you kidding? The guy's a homosexual pedophile... That makes him qualified to be your local priest...
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: judasmachine
I think it's sad that homosexuals have to hide their sexuality to be in public life. I probably totally disagree with this guy politically, but he shouldn't have to hide who he is, just because he felt the call to serve his country. But yes the correspondance with the boy was totally out of line, and he deserves to be punished for it.
Foley was "outed" in 2003, despite that Republicans still re-elected him. So much for Republican hate gays huh?

If you want to be disgusted go read about the gay press attacks on him in 2003 when he was running for senate and their efforts to "out" him. It seems private behavior is only private until someone wants to score political points against you.

BTW: none of what I said above releases Foley of responsibility for his actions in regards to this 16 year old page, there is no excuse for what he did.

Did I say anything about Republicans hating gays? I was unaware he was outed that long ago. However it is still much easier on both sides of the poli-fence to stay in the closet, and pray it never comes out than to be openly gay on the national stage. I do believe it's getting better and many people are opening their minds, but by no means is it 'accepted' yet.

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
We can go round and round on this for ever.
How about Clinton and the Chinese money scandal?
Taking money from a foreign government, major crime?
Al Gore going to a fundraiser at a Buddhist temple, major crime?

What crimes were Clinton or Gore ever convicted of for the things you mention? Do you have any proof to back up your claims? Do the purported scandals begin to compare to, say, the likes of Bush and his cronies' connections like Bush's #1 campaign donor Ken Lay, like Jack Abramoff who was very close to Bush officials, such as Karl Rove?

The right wing likes to make up 100 lies and see if some stick. While the lies are discounted over the truth, make up enough and they carry soe weight with some people.

Clinton was impeached for what he did wrong, the Democratically controlled congress did not even try to impeach Reagan, I think that is a big difference when comparing their behavior.

Next topic please.

Clinton wasn't impeached for what he did wrong. He was impeached for politics. In fact, Henry Hyde, a leading House 'impeacher', suggested after that he had been impeached as 'revenge for the democrats going after Nixon for Watergate and Reagan for Iran-Contra'.

Tip O'Neill probably made a mistake when he determined that there were grounds for impeaching Reagan - something the Reagan Administration feared - but said he would not do so because the nation was still suffering from the Nixon ordeal.

O'Neill's position may also have been influenced by a lack of public support for impeachment - but the republicans were also faced with a lack of public support for impeaching Clinton. They just went ahead and did it. That doesn'tmake what Clinton did worse, and of course what Reagan did was far, far worse.

Selling missiles to a terrorists nation illegally, in exchange for hostages when the stated policy that doing so would just encourage more hostage taking, and then diverting money from the sales to a US-formed terrorist organization designed to overthrow a legitimate, elected government of another nation after Congress banned aiding the terrorists -

That, compared to Clinton hiding his consensual sexual affair, which undermined the political lawsuit against him. No one with any rationality in their view, in my opinion, can say there's any equivalence. And of course, for all your claim of Clinton being impeached for 'what he did wrong', he was found not guilty in the Senate.

But republicans had their political point, tainting him by abusing their power; in fact, Gingrich was asked why the republicans were pursuing impeachment in the face of public opinion, and he said 'because we can'. This is the arrogance of the hyper-partisan republicans radicals drunk with their own power.

In exchange for illegal, corrupt acts by their own party's leaders being investigate properly, they did not show any remorse or refom but instead abused their power in an attack that was not justified. Criticism of Clinton, a censure of Clinton, a case could be made for; overturning the election and removing him from office, as legal scholars said, was just political.

And of course, they are utter hypocrits when it comes to applying the same standards to the illegal acts of George Bush. If Bush commits some of the most serious crimes a president can, such as ignoring the law to torture people outside the legals system, with dozens of them killed - when the Supreme Court says that those people were entitled to Geneva Convention protections, making the administration guilty of felonies under the War Crimes Act, the republicans in Congress respond by retroactively passing a law to say that the violations will not be punishable. It's utter contempt for miorality and the rule of law.
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Somehow I am sure that Carl Rove and Mr. Bush have something MARJOR to do with this. I have an idea. Lets open an investigation and go on a witch hunt for a few years to keep the "Bush and conservatives are evil" drum beating! [/liberal ATPN poster]
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: strummer
If latest news accounts hold true, then Hastert has known for almost a year. Ditto for the page's Louisiana congressman.

I think we are just at the tip of this thing. There is going to be a frenzy for a week or two. Hastert is going to go down with this. Most defintiely his leadership position, and probably his seat in November as well.


If the GOP Party leadership knew - which it appears they did, and covered it up in an attempt to get to the other side
of the November Election cycle - THAT will be another embarassment to the GOP.
What would be even more damaging is if they discover that there was an attempt to buy-off silence from the family of the Page.
This will be one of the paths of any subsequent investigation into who knew what and when, and how deep was the cover-up.

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
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Foley was "outed" in 2003, despite that Republicans still re-elected him. So much for Republican hate gays huh?

John, you're getting to the point you are misleading by misrepresenting history, through ommission.

You make it sound like the republicans arenot bigoted at all towards gays; why, one of their own was gay and they just smiled, hugged him, and voted for him.

That's far from the truth. Besides the fact that the republican party won the 2004 and other races with anti-gay measures on ballots - put there to 'bring out the base' to vote, who is motivated by anti-gay views - as Wikipedia explains, Foley was the front-runned for a Senae race he had to abandon over the rumors, and he did not admit to being gay:

Foley was widely considered the Republican frontrunner for Bob Graham's Senate seat, especially after Graham had announced his retirement. However, longstanding rumors surfaced that Foley was either gay or bisexual and was in a longterm relationship with another man. The story was initially published only in the gay press;[2] [3] then the New Times broke the story in the mainstream press. Other papers, including the New York Press,[4] then addressed the topic. Foley held a press conference to denounce the "revolting" rumors... A few weeks later, he withdrew his candidacy...

In 2006, as Republican division over the candidacy of Katherine Harris grew, Foley's name was mentioned as a contender for the race against Democratic Senator Bill Nelson, but he did not file by the May deadline.
 
Aug 1, 2006
1,308
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Originally posted by: Corbett
Somehow I am sure that Carl Rove and Mr. Bush have something MARJOR to do with this. I have an idea. Lets open an investigation and go on a witch hunt for a few years to keep the "Bush and conservatives are evil" drum beating! [/liberal ATPN poster]

Not that Bush was involved, nobody has stated he was except you and your little fantasy sharing, but there is clear evidence to suggest a coverup has taken place, on the part of the Republicans, you know, the folks running the country into the ground as we speak?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,163
6,317
126
As long as the ignorant continue to hate the sexually different and also the sexually mentally ill there will always be pressure to stay in the closet and for the ill to hide themselves behind power where they can and run from any treatment. The last thing people want is to feel how bad they feel. So sad too because we ridicule others because we hate ourselves. It is how we, who are also mentally ill, deal with the pressure of our own self hate and manage, also, never to know it. Couldn't be anything wrong with me.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Craig234
Foley was "outed" in 2003, despite that Republicans still re-elected him. So much for Republican hate gays huh?

John, you're getting to the point you are misleading by misrepresenting history, through ommission.

Getting???

I have no doubt he is a paid shill member from the very top ranks of the GOP Bush
Regime.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: dmcowen674


I have no doubt he is a paid shill member from the very top ranks of the GOP Bush
Regime.


How else could he have a never ending stream of superfulous data at his fingertips to post in rebuttal to any facts that are presented.

I sure as hell don't have the time to go digging for the constant bombardment of obscure trivial incidentals.

But if I had a staff of go-fers at my disposal to sift through the daily talking points and co-ordinate an agenda . . . .

 

tommywishbone

Platinum Member
May 11, 2005
2,149
0
0
Quote from the Washington Post regarding the congressmans quiting office:

"...Resigning leaves your attackers nowhere to go," said Eric Dezenhall, a crisis-management consultant. "If this had dragged on, it could have sucked Republicans into the vortex of scandal."


Oh there was absolutely a plan for some sucking to occur.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,163
6,317
126
Originally posted by: tommywishbone
Quote from the Washington Post regarding the congressmans quiting office:

"...Resigning leaves your attackers nowhere to go," said Eric Dezenhall, a crisis-management consultant. "If this had dragged on, it could have sucked Republicans into the vortex of scandal."


Oh there was absolutely a plan for some sucking to occur.

Sort of like the death penalty. Once the perp is dead what do you do with all that hate.

Can't wait for every Republican in congress resign to f over the Democrats. Think I'll apply for Rove's job.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Getting???

I have no doubt he is a paid shill member from the very top ranks of the GOP Bush
Regime.

I have to disagree. While many of his arguments may be similar to those of a paid shill, I don't think it's likely he is one, and I have to reason to suggest he's dishonest about that.

Many people are mainly aware of limited info on one side, and reach opinions like his.]

That's why democrats have the luxury of justing wanting the truth spread, while the other side has the harder task of having to hide much of the truth from most of their followers.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Originally posted by: dmcowen674


I have no doubt he is a paid shill member from the very top ranks of the GOP Bush
Regime.


How else could he have a never ending stream of superfulous data at his fingertips to post in rebuttal to any facts that are presented.

I sure as hell don't have the time to go digging for the constant bombardment of obscure trivial incidentals.

But if I had a staff of go-fers at my disposal to sift through the daily talking points and co-ordinate an agenda . . . .
Google is an amazing thing, would you like me to start posting my google search links?
My Foley post about 2002 election came from Wikipedia, from that I googled foley's name and found out about the attempts to 'out' him by the gay media.
Believe me, if I had a staff there would be a lot less spelling mistakes in my posts
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
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Ok, bad news on the legal end of getting Foley.

Did some limited checks on age of consent and all that (ageofconsent.com)

In Washington DC the age of consent seems to be 16, which means Foley and this page could have done anything they wanted and got away with it, legally.

Now if the kid was back in Louisiana the age of consent there is 17, so if Foley took a ?fact finding trip? to see the boy he could be prosecuted there. However, if the boy was 17 at the time they could still go after him for violating the states sodomy laws. Which would turn into great theater because all of the gay rights and ACLU groups would have to rally to defend Foley since they oppose sodomy laws.

In Florida the age of consent becomes 18 if one of the two people is over 21.

Now we turn our attention to the dirty IMs. I am certainly not an expert on this legally, but logically if they boy is considered above the age of consent then trying to prosecute Foley for sending him dirty IMs would be a very tough case. Think of it this way, if I live in DC I can go out and screw a 16 year old, but if I send her an IM saying I want to screw her I?ll be arrested? I can see any attempt to get Foley this way will end up being fought in a court due to this inconsistency.

Looking at yahoo.com and Google news none of the articles mention legal ramifications yet, but it is still early for that.

What Foley did was morally inexcusable, but it might not turn out to be legally wrong.

Finally, from the Democrats do it too file (for all of you who want to make this an issue about the mans party)
Check out this link
Congressional Sex Scandals in History
Rep. Mel Reynolds (D-Ill.)
Freshman Reynolds was indicted on Aug. 19, 1994, on charges of having sex with a 16-year-old campaign worker and then pressuring her to lie about it. Reynolds, who is black, denied the charges and said the investigation was racially motivated. The GOP belatedly put up a write-in candidate for November, but Reynolds dispatched him in the overwhelmingly Democratic district with little effort. Reynolds was convicted on Aug. 22, 1995 of 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography, was sentenced to five years in prison, and resigned his seat on October 1.
Oh look the Republican resigns, the Democrat fought it (and played the race card while doing so) so nananananana
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
An article I read said that the age of consent is 16 with partners under 21, and 18 otherwise, so he's in jeopardy with the law.

One comment: I personally have a sympathetic view towards pedophiles, insofar as seeing them as having a tragic orientation - as victims. That doesn't begin to mean that their acting on that orientation is ok; it's not. But I'd approach the issue as one where they should have treatment available (what I mean by treatment is measures for them to avoid being around children and learning to cope without sexual activity, since the orientation itself seems in curable so far), and that they should be seen as victims deserving sympathy and allowed to lead good lives, while they avoid acting on their condition. Ideally, things would be good enough that they could admit and register their condition voluntarily, without the stigma and price they pay now.

Now, if they act on their orientation, the same rules as today apply: it's a crime and they get punished with jail.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
An article I read said that the age of consent is 16 with partners under 21, and 18 otherwise, so he's in jeopardy with the law.

One comment: I personally have a sympathetic view towards pedophiles, insofar as seeing them as having a tragic orientation - as victims. That doesn't begin to mean that their acting on that orientation is ok; it's not. But I'd approach the issue as one where they should have treatment available (what I mean by treatment is measures for them to avoid being around children and learning to cope without sexual activity, since the orientation itself seems in curable so far), and that they should be seen as victims deserving sympathy and allowed to lead good lives, while they avoid acting on their condition. Ideally, things would be good enough that they could admit and register their condition voluntarily, without the stigma and price they pay now.

Now, if they act on their orientation, the same rules as today apply: it's a crime and they get punished with jail.
So far no body has said that he acted out on these desires so hard to say that he is in jeopardy, unless sending a dirty IM is illegal. Which no one has been able to say definitively one way or the other.

As for CaptnKirk?s comment ?If the GOP Party leadership knew - which it appears they did, and covered it up in an attempt to get to the other side?
The GOP leadership learned about the e-mails nearly a year ago, if they thought this was a bad omen for the election they would have thrown him over board WAY back then.
Also a St. Petersburg paper looked into the e-mail a year ago and decided not to run a story on it either.
 
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