Congressman Foley resigned

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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,465
16,072
146


Just to make this clear, if the charges are true what Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign.

That said, some myths need to be cleared up:

http://www.ontheissues.org/FL/Mark_Foley_Principles_+_Values.htm

Guys, to call him a hypocrite is absurd. He has voted in FAVOR of gay rights since he started in politics and is endorsed by the Log Cabin Republicans (a PAC of gay Republicans).

In fact, he has NEVER aligned himself with the Religious Right and members of his own party (along with liberal gay activists) have been trying to destroy his career for years now.

He is also a member of the Republican Liberty Caucus. A group that is strongly aligned with libertarians. He has a postive rating from CATO.

For those of us who are libertarian minded (socially liberal and fiscally conservative) his loss is a sad one.

No logical libertarian minded person would be happy at seeing him go.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
If everything else is disregarded, you still have the little inconveinence of Sexual Harassment in a Federal Workplace,
and Employee Hostile Enviornment.

Major ethical violations that heve been enforced in many corporations.

How do you exempt the personel who collectively make up the Government, from compliance with criminal ethics violations?
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
It's vile. It's more sad than anything else, to see someone with such potential throw it all down the drain because of a sexual addiction."

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.sptimes.com/Worldandnation/91298/Congress_sees_through.html">Rep. Mark Foley, R-West Palm Beach on the Bill Clinton scandal....
</a>

/Karma. It's a bitch.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
John, you again miss the context of the statement. I'm not saying he's at jeopardy in terms of his having done something with the minors.

I was responding to a post that said he was safe because the age of consent was 16. When I clarified it's 18 for partners over 21, I was saying he's in jeopardy in terms of the law applying to him and minors, as opposed to the previous poster who was saying it didn't. I was not referring to any actual acts he may or may not have commited.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,465
16,072
146
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
It's vile. It's more sad than anything else, to see someone with such potential throw it all down the drain because of a sexual addiction."

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.sptimes.com/Worldandnation/91298/Congress_sees_through.html">Rep. Mark Foley, R-West Palm Beach on the Bill Clinton scandal....
</a>

/Karma. It's a bitch.

Even here we have the start of a myth. Foley's house vote on impeachment was split. Only voting guilty on two of the four charges.

Yes on:

Article I, alleging perjury before a grand jury.
and
Article III, alleging obstruction of justice

No on:

Article II, accusing the president of perjury in a civil lawsuit
and
Article IV, charging abuse of power

And just for clarification, instead of lying and trying to cover up his actions, Foley has resigned.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
If everything else is disregarded, you still have the little inconveinence of Sexual Harassment in a Federal Workplace,
and Employee Hostile Enviornment.

Major ethical violations that heve been enforced in many corporations.

How do you exempt the personel who collectively make up the Government, from compliance with criminal ethics violations?
ummmm does Bill Clinton and interns mean anything to you? A lot of people on here defending that as a "personal" issue. So far there is no evidence to suggest that this kid complained about the IMs to anyone or claimed he was being harassed. If anything based on the one I read the kid sort of went along.

The only difference between this and the Monica thing is that this kid was only 16 at the time, if he was 18 this would be a non-story.

BTW: as far as the "many corporations" how many people said that if Clinton was a CEO or worked for a corporation he would have been fired or forced to resign, and rightly so.
Foley did something really bad and has resigned, let the courts decide if he broke any laws.

The party of Bill Clinton should be the last people to lecture about sexual harassment in the work place.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
It's vile. It's more sad than anything else, to see someone with such potential throw it all down the drain because of a sexual addiction."

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.sptimes.com/Worldandnation/91298/Congress_sees_through.html">Rep. Mark Foley, R-West Palm Beach on the Bill Clinton scandal....
</a>

/Karma. It's a bitch.

Even here we have the start of a myth.

Myth? The man made the statement about Clinton...

And just for clarification, instead of lying and trying to cover up his actions, Foley has resigned.

Strange you'd compare an extra-marital affair and lying to cover it up, to a Man attempting to seduce a 16 year old and the GOP knowing and sitting on that for 11 months.....


 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
You just go for it 'PervJohn' - give the pedophile a pass.

This ISN'T Clinton !

How in the hell can you justify Keeping America Safe with Give a Pervert a Pass ?

Goddamn, what a dense shill.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,465
16,072
146
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
It's vile. It's more sad than anything else, to see someone with such potential throw it all down the drain because of a sexual addiction."

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.sptimes.com/Worldandnation/91298/Congress_sees_through.html">Rep. Mark Foley, R-West Palm Beach on the Bill Clinton scandal....
</a>

/Karma. It's a bitch.

Even here we have the start of a myth.

Myth? The man made the statement about Clinton...

And just for clarification, instead of lying and trying to cover up his actions, Foley has resigned.

Strange you'd compare an extra-marital affair and lying to cover it up, to a Man attempting to seduce a 16 year old and the GOP knowing and sitting on that for 11 months.....

Of course I would. Both are morally and ethically inappropriate sexual indiscretions.

And the leader of the page program did not know the full scope of how graphic this was. He did not have any copies of the IMs. So to say the GOP sat on it isn't fair. They simply had a slight hint at inappropriate exchanges and told Foley to cut off contact.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Strange you'd compare an extra-marital affair and lying to cover it up, to a Man attempting to seduce a 16 year old and the GOP knowing and sitting on that for 11 months.....
Total falsehood, there is NO evidence at all that the GOP knew about his attempts to seduce this kid. What they knew about was one e-mail, when asked about the e-mail Foley said he was mentoring the kid.

 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Strange you'd compare an extra-marital affair and lying to cover it up, to a Man attempting to seduce a 16 year old and the GOP knowing and sitting on that for 11 months.....
Total falsehood, there is NO evidence at all that the GOP knew about his attempts to seduce this kid. What they knew about was one e-mail, when asked about the e-mail Foley said he was mentoring the kid.

So, then it would be fair to say that Foley was lying and attempting to cover up his actions?

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
60
91
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Foley was "outed" in 2003, despite that Republicans still re-elected him. So much for Republican hate gays huh?
Think so? Try putting it to a vote of the majority of those religious nutcases like Falwell, Dobson, etc. that still dominate the party's direction. :roll:
 
Aug 1, 2006
1,308
0
0
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
It's vile. It's more sad than anything else, to see someone with such potential throw it all down the drain because of a sexual addiction."

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.sptimes.com/Worldandnation/91298/Congress_sees_through.html">Rep. Mark Foley, R-West Palm Beach on the Bill Clinton scandal....
</a>

/Karma. It's a bitch.

hahaha. YES!
 
Aug 1, 2006
1,308
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
It's vile. It's more sad than anything else, to see someone with such potential throw it all down the drain because of a sexual addiction."

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.sptimes.com/Worldandnation/91298/Congress_sees_through.html">Rep. Mark Foley, R-West Palm Beach on the Bill Clinton scandal....
</a>

/Karma. It's a bitch.

Even here we have the start of a myth.

Myth? The man made the statement about Clinton...

And just for clarification, instead of lying and trying to cover up his actions, Foley has resigned.

Strange you'd compare an extra-marital affair and lying to cover it up, to a Man attempting to seduce a 16 year old and the GOP knowing and sitting on that for 11 months.....

Of course I would. Both are morally and ethically inappropriate sexual indiscretions.

And the leader of the page program did not know the full scope of how graphic this was. He did not have any copies of the IMs. So to say the GOP sat on it isn't fair. They simply had a slight hint at inappropriate exchanges and told Foley to cut off contact.

I would think pedophilia is worse than fvcking an adult woman. That's just me though. YOU apparently think it's the same thing to rape a child. Because, since these little boys your man was hitting on are minors, he tried to rape them.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
I agree with Amused.

Looking at Foley's overall record, he appears to be a moderate Republican (arguably a Libertarian) that just happened to be a single gay male. Naturally, he couldn't get elected (at least not in his district) as an openly gay male (or as a Libertarian) so he sought office as a closet gay Republican.

Not to excuse his behavior in any way whatsoever . . . but if the guy could limit his sexual appetite (or banter) to consenting adults . . . Congress could use a few more like him.

But for the record, he is at the very least borderline hypocrite. You would have to be the biggest moron on the planet (say George W. Bush) to fail to realize the conflict in making advances even on an ADULT volunteer or staff in Congress. Foley's quotes on Clinton spell it out explicitly.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
60
91
Originally posted by: Amused
Of course I would. Both are morally and ethically inappropriate sexual indiscretions.
Clinton's romp with Monica was an ethical and moral indiscretion because he betrayed his marital vows and lied about it, but I wouldn't consider it a sexual indiscretion. If you think otherwise, I guess we should feel sorry for you for being so deprived.

I also don't give a damn if Foley's gay. However, it crossed all lines of right and wrong when he came on to a juvenile House page. It would be equally wrong if he approached an underage female page.
And the leader of the page program did not know the full scope of how graphic this was. He did not have any copies of the IMs. So to say the GOP sat on it isn't fair. They simply had a slight hint at inappropriate exchanges and told Foley to cut off contact.
Oops! Not quite...
Rep.: Hastert Told of Foley Months Ago
Head of the House GOP Election Effort Says He Told Hastert About Foley Scandal Months Ago

By DEVLIN BARRETT

WASHINGTON Sep 30, 2006 (AP)
? Rep. Thomas Reynolds, head of the House Republican election effort, said he told Speaker Dennis Hastert after learning a fellow GOP lawmaker sent inappropriate messages to a teenage boy.

Reynolds, R-N.Y., was told months ago about e-mails sent by Rep. Mark Foley and is now defending himself from Democratic accusations that he did too little. Foley, R-Fla., resigned Friday after ABC News questioned him about the e-mails to a former congressional page and about sexually suggestive instant messages to other pages.

The boy who received the e-mails was 16 in summer 2005 when he worked in Congress as a page. After the boy returned to his Louisiana home, the congressman e-mailed him, and the teenager thought the messages were inappropriate, particularly one in which Foley asked the teen to send a picture of himself.

The teen's family contacted their congressman, Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-La., who then discussed it with Reynolds sometime this spring.

"Rodney Alexander brought to my attention the existence of e-mails between Mark Foley and a former page of Mr. Alexander's," Reynolds, chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, said in a written statement Saturday.

"Despite the fact that I had not seen the e-mails in question, and Mr. Alexander told me that the parents didn't want the matter pursued, I told the speaker of the conversation Mr. Alexander had with me," Reynolds said.

Reynolds added that Alexander also discussed it with the clerk of the House, and the congressman who oversees the page program, Rep. John Shimkus, R-Ill.

Shimkus has said he learned about the e-mail exchange in late 2005 and took immediate action to investigate.

Shimkus said Foley told him it was an innocent exchange. Shimkus said he warned Foley not to have any more contact with the teenager and to respect other pages.

Democrats charged Reynolds did far too little and said more digging should be done.

"Congressman Reynolds' inaction in the face of such a serious situation is very troubling, and raises important questions about whether there was an attempt to cover up criminal activity involving a minor to keep it from coming to light before election day," said Democratic National Committee spokeswoman Karen Finney.

New York Democrats hoping to unseat Reynolds blasted the congressman, saying they call into question the Republican's values.

"Mr. Reynolds knew about these allegedly inappropriate emails from a fellow congressman to a minor for months and didn't lift a finger," said Blake Zeff, a spokesman for the state Democrats.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Harvey the only thing I see in that article you posted is an attempt by Democrats to score political points out of this.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
60
91
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Harvey the only thing I see in that article you posted is an attempt by Democrats to score political points out of this.
Oh John, poor John. Didn't your mother ever tell you, if you didn't stop it you'd go blind? :shocked:

I know the quotes are from a Democrats, but if, and I repeat, IF it's true that any Republicans were warned much earlier that Foley was a pedophile and did nothing to keep him out of range of House pages, there's a lot more wrong going on.

In case you need a little more to chew on, try this from the Washington Post:
Speaker's staff knew about Foley matter in 2005

Reuters
Saturday, September 30, 2006; 10:04 PM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Republican leader of the U.S. House of Representatives said his office knew a year ago about inappropriate contact between a former intern and newly resigned Rep. Mark Foley and called on Saturday for a criminal probe of the matter.

Foley, 52, a six-term Florida Republican, resigned from the House on Friday after ABC News reported he sent messages to current and former congressional pages with references to sexual organs and acts.

Staff for the Republican leader, Speaker Dennis Hastert, said they had been alerted to an exchange between Foley and one congressional page in the fall of 2005 but were not told about any sexually explicit e-mails or text messages, according to a statement issued by the speaker's office.

They said Foley had been warned to stop any such contact and that Hastert did not become aware of the incident until the spring of 2006.

Foley had been chairman of the House caucus on missing and exploited children. He was also the author of the key sexual predator provisions of the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006, which President George W. Bush signed in July.

On Saturday, Hastert, House Majority Leader John Boehner and House Majority Whip Roy Blunt called for a criminal investigation into Foley's actions.

"His immediate resignation must now be followed by the full weight of the criminal justice system," the leaders said in a statement.

Hastert's office said in the fall of 2005 his staff referred concerns about contact between Foley and the page to the clerk of the House. The unidentified clerk asked to see the e-mail exchange but the request was "declined citing the fact that the family wished to maintain as much privacy as possible and simply wanted the contact to stop," it said.

The clerk was told the exchange was not sexual in nature, but rather "over-friendly," Hastert's office said.

Officials then met with Foley to tell him to "avoid even the appearance of impropriety and at the request of the parents, Congressman Foley was to immediately cease any communication with the young man," the statement said.
Are you now going to tell us this is some great Democratic smear campaign, or if it's true that Hastert, or anyone else, knew about Foley's umm... problem, do you just condone his proclivity for sex with minors? :roll:
 

winr

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2001
6,081
56
91
Originally posted by: Craig234
An article I read said that the age of consent is 16 with partners under 21, and 18 otherwise, so he's in jeopardy with the law.

One comment: I personally have a sympathetic view towards pedophiles, insofar as seeing them as having a tragic orientation - as victims. That doesn't begin to mean that their acting on that orientation is ok; it's not. But I'd approach the issue as one where they should have treatment available (what I mean by treatment is measures for them to avoid being around children and learning to cope without sexual activity, since the orientation itself seems in curable so far), and that they should be seen as victims deserving sympathy and allowed to lead good lives, while they avoid acting on their condition. Ideally, things would be good enough that they could admit and register their condition voluntarily, without the stigma and price they pay now.

Now, if they act on their orientation, the same rules as today apply: it's a crime and they get punished with jail.


Do you have Children ??



 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,526
9,843
146
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Harvey the only thing I see in that article you posted is an attempt by Democrats to score political points out of this.
Good! Admission of your limitations is the first step in the retrieval of your political soul from hell.

We'll all know your self-blinding political psychosis is truly on the wane when you successfully pass the Karl Rove rhorsach blot test.

Hint: He's NOT kindly Uncle Karl or the ambiguously gay but touchingly loyal personal aide and speechification coach to President Bush.

Nope, that IS an actual tail and horns you're looking at there Prof., so save some of your mild indignation for the most successful group of organized smear mongers since Goebbals and those other Vaterland Security humpers, k?

 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,526
9,843
146
Originally posted by: winr
Originally posted by: Craig234
An article I read said that the age of consent is 16 with partners under 21, and 18 otherwise, so he's in jeopardy with the law.

One comment: I personally have a sympathetic view towards pedophiles, insofar as seeing them as having a tragic orientation - as victims. That doesn't begin to mean that their acting on that orientation is ok; it's not.
Do you have Children ??

<Brutal Sarcasm On> Every chance I get, but that's not important now. <Brutal Sarcasm Off>

Personal procreation is no excuse for abandoning your ethics or your soul.

Violent vengence is NOT a family value.

Your Jesus fish does NOT excuse or condone your blood lust.

 
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