Congressman Foley resigned

[catnap1972]

The only thing the "right" is mad about is that he was CAUGHT. I'm surprised that somebody here isn't claiming that the kid was obviously asking for it (already seen that on a few other "nutwing" boards)

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: catnap1972
The only thing the "right" is mad about is that he was CAUGHT. I'm surprised that somebody here isn't claiming that the kid was obviously asking for it (already seen that on a few other "nutwing" boards)

in the transcript I read, the boy was extremely non-committal in his responses to Foley's sleazy comments. I guess he didn't feel comfortable expressing any negative response in case he didn't get his reference. Or maybe he was just too polite to say "quit grossing me out".

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
I agree with Amused.

Looking at Foley's overall record, he appears to be a moderate Republican (arguably a Libertarian) that just happened to be a single gay male. Naturally, he couldn't get elected (at least not in his district) as an openly gay male (or as a Libertarian) so he sought office as a closet gay Republican.

Not to excuse his behavior in any way whatsoever . . . but if the guy could limit his sexual appetite (or banter) to consenting adults . . . Congress could use a few more like him.

But for the record, he is at the very least borderline hypocrite. You would have to be the biggest moron on the planet (say George W. Bush) to fail to realize the conflict in making advances even on an ADULT volunteer or staff in Congress. Foley's quotes on Clinton spell it out explicitly.

If he had just been a gay men having consentual sex with adults it wouldn't have been a problem, just like Monica sucking off Clinton was her own choice.

That he was a pedophile means I'd like to see him get burned alive, together with all who defend him.

Amazing. How many people asking for his blood asked for the blood of the recent rash of hot female high school teachers who have been fscking their students?

I will bet none. Not a one. And if you claim you did, I want a link to a dated post of you doing so.

The double standard here is driven by a mixture of homophobia (boy, talk about hypocrisy) and partisanship. Nothing more, nothing less

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty. It IS unethical to follow through with that attraction... and even more so if they work for you.

 

[catnap1972]

According to Tony Snowjob, they were just a bunch of "naughty emails" (nothing to worry about, nope, nothing to see here).

Yep, GOP = "Group O' Perverts"

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: Amused

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty.

Ah, so then you'd have no problem with it if he were propositioning one of YOUR kids?

Or is that different?

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Amused

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty.

Ah, so then you'd have no problem with it if he were propositioning one of YOUR kids?

Or is that different?

Oh, I'm sure he'd love to have one of his Republican leaders have sex with his teenage daughter. I mean, c'mon, they're Republicans after all. It's all good, right?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Amused

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty.

Ah, so then you'd have no problem with it if he were propositioning one of YOUR kids?

Or is that different?

How did you make the jump from Amused's comments ("what Foley did was wrong", "It IS unethical to follow through with that attraction") to "sex with teens is A-OK"?

Your comments make no sense in context.

I'd also point out Foley didn't proposition anyone. Proposition = asking someone to have sex with you. Foley didn't appear to do that in the instant messages he sent. Condemn him for what he actually did (which is making sexually explicit comments or suggestions in instant messaging conversations with teenagers), instead of making stuff up.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Amused

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty.

Ah, so then you'd have no problem with it if he were propositioning one of YOUR kids?

Or is that different?

As is said, it's is wrong and unethical. A person who does this should not stay in a position of power (teacher or congressman).

I was just noting the huge discrepancy between reactions on this story, and the reactions to the rash of female teachers having sex with their students (as young as 14, no less).

Do you not agree there is a marked difference in how people are reacting? And how would you justify that difference?

BTW, if you have a teenager, especially a daughter, you have to understand that they WILL be propositioned by adults. The prettier they are and more mature they are, the more it will happen. It is up to you to teach them right from wrong so they don't make the wrong choices.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Amused

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty.

Ah, so then you'd have no problem with it if he were propositioning one of YOUR kids?

Or is that different?

Oh, I'm sure he'd love to have one of his Republican leaders have sex with his teenage daughter. I mean, c'mon, they're Republicans after all. It's all good, right?

How do you get that from what I said?

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Amused

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty.

Ah, so then you'd have no problem with it if he were propositioning one of YOUR kids?

Or is that different?

How did you make the jump from Amused's comments ("what Foley did was wrong", "It IS unethical to follow through with that attraction") to "sex with teens is A-OK"?

Your comments make no sense in context.

I'd also point out Foley didn't proposition anyone. Proposition = asking someone to have sex with you. Foley didn't appear to do that in the instant messages he sent. Condemn him for what he actually did (which is making sexually explicit comments or suggestions in instant messaging conversations with teenagers), instead of making stuff up.

Pedophilia is wrong. But the real issue here is the coverup. The Republicans knew about his aberrant behavior and covered it up in order to hold his seat. There should be a full investigation into who knew what, when. No amount of misinformation on your part will change the fact that a full accounting must take place, before the election. Not after.

 

[dullard]

Foley entered treatment for alcholism.

I'm surprised at you Anandtech. I thought we'd have some jokes about the Gay Old Pedophiles party. But none have shown up yet.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Amused

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty.

Ah, so then you'd have no problem with it if he were propositioning one of YOUR kids?

Or is that different?

How did you make the jump from Amused's comments ("what Foley did was wrong", "It IS unethical to follow through with that attraction") to "sex with teens is A-OK"?

Your comments make no sense in context.

I'd also point out Foley didn't proposition anyone. Proposition = asking someone to have sex with you. Foley didn't appear to do that in the instant messages he sent. Condemn him for what he actually did (which is making sexually explicit comments or suggestions in instant messaging conversations with teenagers), instead of making stuff up.

Pedophilia is wrong. But the real issue here is the coverup. The Republicans knew about his aberrant behavior and covered it up in order to hold his seat. There should be a full investigation into who knew what, when. No amount of misinformation on your part will change the fact that a full accounting must take place, before the election. Not after.

Nice change of topic from my post.

I addressed the double standard between reactions to this story, and reactions to the recent rash of female teachers having sex with their students. Nothing more, nothing less.

And not one person has yet explained why their reactions to the two stories are so wildly different. Probably because no one is willing to admit they are being homophobic, partisan hypocrites.

Finally, stop calling this pedophilia.

Pedophilia or paedophilia (see spelling differences) is the paraphilia of being sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent or peripubescent children. Persons with this attraction are called pedophiles.

Being sexually attracted to a teen who is far past puberty is not pedophilia. Acting on that attraction is unethical and wrong. But it is NOT pedophilia.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Amused

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty.

Ah, so then you'd have no problem with it if he were propositioning one of YOUR kids?

Or is that different?

How did you make the jump from Amused's comments ("what Foley did was wrong", "It IS unethical to follow through with that attraction") to "sex with teens is A-OK"?

Your comments make no sense in context.

I'd also point out Foley didn't proposition anyone. Proposition = asking someone to have sex with you. Foley didn't appear to do that in the instant messages he sent. Condemn him for what he actually did (which is making sexually explicit comments or suggestions in instant messaging conversations with teenagers), instead of making stuff up.

Pedophilia is wrong.

Sexual interest in teens isn't pedophilia.

Also, the age of consent in the district of Columbia is 16 (as it is in most states of the USA).

So even if Foley HAD had sex with a 16 year old teenage page (he didn't, by the way) it would not have been illegal.

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
But the real issue here is the coverup. The Republicans knew about his aberrant behavior and covered it up in order to hold his seat.

It seems that Foley's overly friendly behavior towards young men was known and joked about. He was the object of jokes. I'm not sure he was seen as a danger or threat to anyone until the instant messages surfaced. Presumably the young man in question was offended or disturbed, and made a complaint to someone.

I am certainly not defending Foley's behavior, which was unethical and predatory - but I don't think the nature of what he did should be exaggerated or made into something more horrific just because 1) he is a Republican, or 2) he is a homosexual.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Amused

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty.

Ah, so then you'd have no problem with it if he were propositioning one of YOUR kids?

Or is that different?

I still agree with Amused. Granted, my girl is under 2 and my boy is 7 months but if he propositioned either one when they are 16yo I would 'accidentally' kick him in his hypogastric plexus and then report his behavior (publicly)!

1) As others have noted, the worst he's 'accused' of doing is inappropriate communication with 16-18yo boys. If that's all there is then he's just a pervert with poor judgment.

2) I called him a borderline hypocrite b/c unlike Clinton, Reynolds, Gingrich, or a bevy of other pols. There's no evidence Foley actually fed his physical appetite, while crusading for the protection of children or commenting on the behavior of others (like Clinton).

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

But the real issue here is the coverup.

The Republicans knew about his aberrant behavior and covered it up in order to hold his seat.

There should be a full investigation into who knew what, when.

No amount of misinformation on your part will change the fact that a full accounting must take place, before the election.

Not after.

Really.

Clinton stains a females interns dress and tries to cover it up and he gets grilled like he committed War crimes, meanwhile Republicans and their supporters go against the very same behavior they say they are so against but it's them so it's OK.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

But the real issue here is the coverup.

The Republicans knew about his aberrant behavior and covered it up in order to hold his seat.

There should be a full investigation into who knew what, when.

No amount of misinformation on your part will change the fact that a full accounting must take place, before the election.

Not after.

Really.

Clinton stains a females interns dress and tries to cover it up and he gets grilled like he committed War crimes, meanwhile Republicans and their supporters go against the very same behavior they say they are so against but it's them so it's OK.

Of course if Foley were a Democrat, they'd be fighting over who gets to castrate him with the hedgeclippers first.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

But the real issue here is the coverup.

The Republicans knew about his aberrant behavior and covered it up in order to hold his seat.

There should be a full investigation into who knew what, when.

No amount of misinformation on your part will change the fact that a full accounting must take place, before the election.

Not after.

Really.

Clinton stains a females interns dress and tries to cover it up and he gets grilled like he committed War crimes, meanwhile Republicans and their supporters go against the very same behavior they say they are so against but it's them so it's OK.

IT does seem that various Republicans ignored or 'covered up' the complaint against Foley for quite some months. I am very liberal/ left leaning politically, but I did tend to think Foley was an OK Republican (if such a thing exists) as he voted against party lines on gay/ lesbian issues. For example he voted against the federal amendment to change the constitution to ban same-sex marriage. He seemed decent to me, but he obviously has his flaws. I feel sad for him, I hope he can salvage a more healthy and honest life out of all this. I guess Democrats should try to exploit the cover-up in some way, to gain the political advantage. The fact that republicans didn't act quickly on this issue makes them look more concerned with losing a seat, than with the emotional welfare of a young page they were supposed to be looking after.

 

[CaptnKirk]

EEOC

Hostile work environment sexual harassment refers to situations where the employee's work environment is made intimidating, hostile, or offensive due to the unwelcome sexual conduct and the conduct unreasonably interferes with the employee's work performance. This could take the form of unwanted sexual advances by a fellow employee, but it need not involve sexual advances at all. Examples of hostile work environment sexual harassment include making offensive sexual comments or jokes, discussions about sex, and the display of sexually oriented materials.

The victim of sexual harassment may be either a man or a woman. The harasser may be either a man or a woman as well. The victim and the harasser do not have to be of the opposite sex. The victim does not have to be the person to whom the sexual conduct is directed but could be anyone affected by the offensive conduct.

It is the employer's responsibility to maintain a workplace that is free from sexual harassment. The employer may be held liable for sexual harassment committed by their employees whether or not the employee is in a supervisory position. The employer may also be held liable for sexual harassment committed by non-employees. Therefore, it is in the employer's best interest to prevent sexual harassment in the work place and, if sexual harassment occurs, to take remedial action as quickly as possible. Employers should establish a policy for the prevention, reporting, investigation, and punishment of sexual harassment in the workplace.


So - the GOP Leadership is above the law?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

CaptnKirk-

While I share your general concern for the pages, I don't see this as a Clarence Thomas-type situation.

Foley's behavior was absolutely inappropriate but I've yet to see anything even close to being intimidating or hostile. Granted, some would say by the very nature of his position that Foley would be intimidating.

Obviously, some of the (guys, kids, young men, teens, whatever) took offense and Foley's verbal 'contact' was unwelcomed by most (if not nearly all).

But I think we should step back for a moment and put Foley's 'alleged' behavior in proper context. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the bashing of the sanctimonious party of morals and their string of corruption, deceit, influence peddling, bigotry, disregard for the less fortunate, etc. But I'm a tad apprehensive that GOPies turn this into a 'hang the gay RINO' clarion call. And the Foley episode becomes yet another excuse to excoriate gays in particular and socially-enlightened people in general.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
So - the GOP Leadership is above the law?

Apparently. Perhaps they can pass a bill to make it retroactively legal? Seems to be the norm for today's GOP.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
But I think we should step back for a moment and put Foley's 'alleged' behavior in proper context. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the bashing of the sanctimonious party of morals and their string of corruption, deceit, influence peddling, bigotry, disregard for the less fortunate, etc. But I'm a tad apprehensive that GOPies turn this into a 'hang the gay RINO' clarion call. And the Foley episode becomes yet another excuse to excoriate gays in particular and socially-enlightened people in general.

I'm curious - have we learned of everything Foley has done? Perhaps the emails and IMs with this page are just the tip of the iceberg. A guy like Foley doesn't resign for nothing, you know.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Another detail this guys defenders are missing: he chaired the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children. Also, don't buy into the, "of it was just a harmless, legal pastime..." crap. We shall see how low the SOB went once the INVESTIGATION is complete. We're talking about underage children, we're talking about outright sexual advances, not just "being overly friendly...." If it was my child, my fist would be "overly friendly" with his disgusting pedophile face.
They knew about this in 2001. They went so far as to warn pages away from Foley, and they covered it up.

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
But I think we should step back for a moment and put Foley's 'alleged' behavior in proper context. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the bashing of the sanctimonious party of morals and their string of corruption, deceit, influence peddling, bigotry, disregard for the less fortunate, etc. But I'm a tad apprehensive that GOPies turn this into a 'hang the gay RINO' clarion call. And the Foley episode becomes yet another excuse to excoriate gays in particular and socially-enlightened people in general.

I'm curious - have we learned of everything Foley has done? Perhaps the emails and IMs with this page are just the tip of the iceberg. A guy like Foley doesn't resign for nothing, you know.

Exactly. We need a thorough, in depth, long, drawn-out investigation to get ALL of the facts in this case. And it needs to be public. In the public realm, not swept under the (by now huge) Republican coverup rug. I think we'll be learning some interesting things in the next several months regarding this man's conduct and the conduct of the Republican coverup team.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
I'm a tad apprehensive that GOPies turn this into a 'hang the gay RINO' clarion call. And the Foley episode becomes yet another excuse to excoriate gays in particular and socially-enlightened people in general.

what is a RINO?

Foley was never open about his alleged homosexuality. He refused to answer questions pertaining to his private life. However unlike some closeted homosexual Republicans, he didn't as a general rule support anti-gay legislation. He voted against things like the amendment to the constitution banning same-sex marriage. So he wasn't a hypocrite in the sense of being gay but voting for legislation harming the gay community.

He does seem more than a bit hypocritical supporting legislation making it illegal to talk in a sexually explicit way with people up to 18 years old, then turning around and doing the exact same thing himself.

Obviously his behavior was inappropriate and he probably should have been asked to resign last year when the instant messages surfaced. The fact that the GOP didn't immediately seek his resignation makes Republicans seem more concerned with losing votes and losing a seat than they are with the health and safety of the pages. I think this aspect of the situation could quite reasonably be highlighted by Democrats. Hopefully it can be done in a way that isn't homophobic or anti-gay. I do think it is way over the top calling this guy a pedophile. His "crime" or transgression was pretty mild, all things considered. He could have actually sexually assaulted someone in the flesh, for example.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I'm curious - have we learned of everything Foley has done? Perhaps the emails and IMs with this page are just the tip of the iceberg. A guy like Foley doesn't resign for nothing, you know.

You think a politician could weather out the publication of those instant messages?

 

[International Machine Consortium]

The point is, do we have ALL of the instant messages, ALL of the evidence. I think not. Investigate investigate investigate.