Congressman Foley resigned

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Another detail this guys defenders are missing: he chaired the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children.

So? It makes him a tad hypocritical, I suppose. The guy did actually do a lot of good things during his time in office. All those good things will now be overshadowed by this scandal of his own making.

(interesting article on some of the good things Foley did, prior to disgracing himself)

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Also, don't buy into the, "of it was just a harmless, legal pastime..." crap.

His behavior was not harmless. However the extent to which his behavior was harmful is up for debate. I'd guess the boys would be fine. No one is going to be traumatised for life over sleazy or sexually explicit instant messages. Certainly not someone 16 years old. On the other hand, Foley has brought his office and party into disrepute, disgraced himself and his family, and made at least one young man feel very uncomfortable.

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
We shall see how low the SOB went once the INVESTIGATION is complete. We're talking about underage children,

Actually, we're talking about 16 year olds. The age of consent in The district of Columbia is 16 (as it is in most of the USA). It would, in fact, be entirely legal for Foley or any other adult to have censensual sex with a 16 year old in that part of the world. By making stuff up, raising the boogeyman of "pedophilia", you just make yourself seem silly. The real issue here is a betrayal of trust. Foley was supposed to be mentoring those young people, not sleazing onto them via IM.

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
we're talking about outright sexual advances,

What outright sexual advances are you referring to?

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
not just "being overly friendly...." If it was my child, my fist would be "overly friendly" with his disgusting pedophile face.

Comments like that make you seem irrational, hysterical.

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
They knew about this in 2001. They went so far as to warn pages away from Foley, and they covered it up.

Warn pages of what exactly? That he is overly friendly towards young men? That is not a crime, you know.

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Exactly. We need a thorough, in depth, long, drawn-out investigation to get ALL of the facts in this case. And it needs to be public. In the public realm, not swept under the (by now huge) Republican coverup rug. I think we'll be learning some interesting things in the next several months regarding this man's conduct and the conduct of the Republican coverup team.

I'm surprised you say you want the facts of the case, much of what you are posting are exaggerations or outright fabrications.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Actually, we're talking about 16 year olds. The age of consent in The district of Columbia is 16 (as it is in most of the USA). It would, in fact, be entirely legal for Foley or any other adult to have censensual sex with a 16 year old in that part of the world. By making stuff up, raising the boogeyman of "pedophilia", you just make yourself seem silly. The real issue here is a betrayal of trust. Foley was supposed to be mentoring those young people, not sleazing onto them via IM.

I'm just curious since I haven't seen all of the transactions yet (I doubt that anyone other than Folley has). But were every single one of them made in DC? Or were some made over holidays and vacations away from DC in areas where 16 isn't the age of consent?

 

[Aisengard]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
we're talking about outright sexual advances,

What outright sexual advances are you referring to?

Did you read the IMs? Even over the internet, those are considered sexual advances. Especially the "I wish I could take off your pants" part.

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
They knew about this in 2001. They went so far as to warn pages away from Foley, and they covered it up.

Warn pages of what exactly? That he is overly friendly towards young men? That is not a crime, you know.

Actually, it is a crime. It's called sexual harrassment, and especially a crime in the workplace, and even more especially when you are in a position of power like Foley is.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

DP

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Actually, we're talking about 16 year olds. The age of consent in The district of Columbia is 16 (as it is in most of the USA). It would, in fact, be entirely legal for Foley or any other adult to have censensual sex with a 16 year old in that part of the world. By making stuff up, raising the boogeyman of "pedophilia", you just make yourself seem silly. The real issue here is a betrayal of trust. Foley was supposed to be mentoring those young people, not sleazing onto them via IM.

I'm just curious since I haven't seen all of the transactions yet (I doubt that anyone other than Folley has). But were every single one of them made in DC? Or were some made over holidays and vacations away from DC in areas where 16 isn't the age of consent?

It doesn't matter to aidanjim, Foley is just automatically innocent of anything because he's gay.... Splitting legal hairs is not my idea of moral leadership. The guy ran a committee dealing with the sexual exploitation of children, and then goes on to exploit children. I don't care if he's gay, it's his aberrant behavior and the subsequent Republican machine cover-up that must be investigated.

Originally posted by: Aisengard

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
we're talking about outright sexual advances,

What outright sexual advances are you referring to?

Did you read the IMs? Even over the internet, those are considered sexual advances. Especially the "I wish I could take off your pants" part.

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
They knew about this in 2001. They went so far as to warn pages away from Foley, and they covered it up.

Warn pages of what exactly? That he is overly friendly towards young men? That is not a crime, you know.

Actually, it is a crime. It's called sexual harrassment, and especially a crime in the workplace, and even more especially when you are in a position of power like Foley is.

Of course he wanted to take off the kid's pants! That's normal, isn't it? Especially for someone running the committee to prevent the sexual exploitation of kids!

 

[Moonbeam]

The only real issue I can see here is whether or not the Republican leadership knew about the actual text of Foley's e-mails and if they ignored real content or if what was passed along was just some vague realization that he was probably gay.

Foley resigned. He is seeking treatment for alcoholism which still looks like partial denial or even cover to me, but which is a start. We can only hope that what he calls emotional problems are really just attraction to males and not children and any self-loathing he may harbor toward himself for the former.

As I have said many times, the thing that creates the profound hypocrisy and leaking out of inappropriate behaviors to others from profoundly sexually conflicted individuals is their intense, trained in, self hate for their real orientation, a self hate they get from the rest of us because we too are sick. To be what is hated and to pretend it's not there is a recipe for disaster. We need to get past the tremendous guilt trip put on us by religion toward sex and especially the guilt trip toward gays and make it very very clear to all that sexual attraction to children, particularly any delusion that it can be excused or engaged in appropriately must be expunged, denied and rebutted. I am not sure exactly where a fixation of children as sexual objects comes from and I think research should be done here, but my guess is that it arises our of self hate. He who feels worthless, that would be you and me, feels that he is also sexually incompetent and sexually worthless compared to others. The one place, maybe with the exception of sex with animals, that this feeling of failure can be submerged would be with children who have no idea of what is good or poor sex. My guess is that people who go after children for sex are trying to find satisfaction without feeling how worthless they feel. We need to know for sure what is going on and if it turns out to be a psychological condition not rooted in some biochemical cause beyond a person's control, and is instead something psychotherapy can help, then we need to stop hating pedophiles and get them psychological help. In shout we need to eliminate them from society not by persecution and punishment which will just make them dig dungeons under their house and lead otherwise normal lives externally, but by education compassion understanding and readily available therapy.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Admittedly, I haven't read much of the IMs and none of the email? I started reading one and it only took a couple of lines to decide the guy was foul. BUT . . . until more substantive evidence surfaces, the guy is just gay ex-Congressman with poor judgment.

If he never 'did' anything b/c these kids didn't give him the opportunity, then yeah that tips him over into full-blown pervert. But until that point arrives, Foley deserves full accolades for his previous work against the exploitation of kids.

With what I know now I would definitely vote for Foley before my current representative . . . Howard Coble. He's the fossil on the right.

 

[catnap1972]

No need to worry--the internet peanut gallery has chimed in that this is just another "lib conspiracy" by the anti-Americans at ABC in a desperate attempt to change the balance of power. Oh, and if Clinton had kept his pants zipped, this never would've happened.

Nothing more to see here.....

 

[randym431]

As former Rep. Mark Foley, under FBI investigation for e-mail exchanges with teenage congressional pages, has checked himself into rehabilitation facility for alcoholism treatment

Why is it why these republicans beat the drum on morals, then get caught having no morals, they blame it on the booze? I dont think alcohol has anything to do with it. Just an excuse for being the slime they truly are..

 

[senseamp]

Shouldn't he have checked into the pervert treatment, not alcohol treatment?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Shouldn't he have checked into the pervert treatment, not alcohol treatment?

Originally posted by: randym431

As former Rep. Mark Foley, under FBI investigation for e-mail exchanges with teenage congressional pages, has checked himself into rehabilitation facility for alcoholism treatment

Why is it why these republicans beat the drum on morals, then get caught having no morals, they blame it on the booze? I dont think alcohol has anything to do with it. Just an excuse for being the slime they truly are..

The party of personal responsibility my a$$.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Shouldn't he have checked into the pervert treatment, not alcohol treatment?

HA! :laugh:

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: senseamp
Shouldn't he have checked into the pervert treatment, not alcohol treatment?

HA! :laugh:

Maybe there's no local chapter of "Perverts Anonymous"?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Amused

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty.

Ah, so then you'd have no problem with it if he were propositioning one of YOUR kids?

Or is that different?

How did you make the jump from Amused's comments ("what Foley did was wrong", "It IS unethical to follow through with that attraction") to "sex with teens is A-OK"?

Your comments make no sense in context.

I'd also point out Foley didn't proposition anyone. Proposition = asking someone to have sex with you. Foley didn't appear to do that in the instant messages he sent. Condemn him for what he actually did (which is making sexually explicit comments or suggestions in instant messaging conversations with teenagers), instead of making stuff up.

Pedophilia is wrong. But the real issue here is the coverup. The Republicans knew about his aberrant behavior and covered it up in order to hold his seat. There should be a full investigation into who knew what, when. No amount of misinformation on your part will change the fact that a full accounting must take place, before the election. Not after.

Were you bitchin about "cover up" when Clinton was telling Monica to lie about their relationship and commiting perjury in order to hide is poor behavior?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: senseamp
Shouldn't he have checked into the pervert treatment, not alcohol treatment?

Originally posted by: randym431

As former Rep. Mark Foley, under FBI investigation for e-mail exchanges with teenage congressional pages, has checked himself into rehabilitation facility for alcoholism treatment

Why is it why these republicans beat the drum on morals, then get caught having no morals, they blame it on the booze? I dont think alcohol has anything to do with it. Just an excuse for being the slime they truly are..

The party of personal responsibility my a$$.

Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Amused

What Foley did was wrong and he was right to resign. But it's not pedophilia and it's not a capital offense. It is not sexually abnormal to be attracted to a teen who is well past puberty.

Ah, so then you'd have no problem with it if he were propositioning one of YOUR kids?

Or is that different?

How did you make the jump from Amused's comments ("what Foley did was wrong", "It IS unethical to follow through with that attraction") to "sex with teens is A-OK"?

Your comments make no sense in context.

I'd also point out Foley didn't proposition anyone. Proposition = asking someone to have sex with you. Foley didn't appear to do that in the instant messages he sent. Condemn him for what he actually did (which is making sexually explicit comments or suggestions in instant messaging conversations with teenagers), instead of making stuff up.

Pedophilia is wrong. But the real issue here is the coverup. The Republicans knew about his aberrant behavior and covered it up in order to hold his seat. There should be a full investigation into who knew what, when. No amount of misinformation on your part will change the fact that a full accounting must take place, before the election. Not after.

Were you bitchin about "cover up" when Clinton was telling Monica to lie about their relationship and commiting perjury in order to hide is poor behavior?

And heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's ProfJohn with the "Buuuuuuuuuuuuut Clinton! So it's OK" retort, right on schedule. :roll:

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: randym431

As former Rep. Mark Foley, under FBI investigation for e-mail exchanges with teenage congressional pages, has checked himself into rehabilitation facility for alcoholism treatment

Why is it why these republicans beat the drum on morals, then get caught having no morals, they blame it on the booze? I dont think alcohol has anything to do with it. Just an excuse for being the slime they truly are..

Do you not understand that "alcohol treatment" cures everything?
Joe Kennedy runs into a planter, I need alcohol treatment.
Mel Gibson goes on a rant against Jews, I need alcohol treatment.
Paris Hilton gets a late not burger craving. I need alcohol treatment.

It's an excuse for their bad behavior that society tends to accept. Maybe Foley will recover from this and become an advocate for making the internet safe for kids and young adults.

As aidanjm has been saying, how many of you remember the first time you saw Britney Spears? And how many of you went damn she is hot, even thought she was 17, it's morally wrong to be attracted to someone that age in our society, but in other countries a female can appear naked in magazines at 16 or 17. Furthermore, read the IMs it is not like the "kid" was turned off by this behavior and told him to stop, he was a willing participant, if Foley was only 18 or 19 no one would be talking about this.

I think it is a big issue cause some want to score political points on it.
And because Foley and the "kid" are gay and that in itself just disgusts some people.

Foley is gone, let the courts deal with him.
Now let's have an honest and non-political investigation into what the House leadership knew and when the knew. From what we know so far the leadership knew there were e-mails, but had no idea how sexual they or the IMs were.

One last thing, I want to see a timeline on how the details of this got to the press and if this information was "timed" in order to do the most damage. I think the "leakers" may have not bet on such a strong response by the GOP leadership to kick Foley out, we still have 5? weeks till the election, this will be forgotten almost everywhere buy Foley's district by then.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: catnap1972
And heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's ProfJohn with the "Buuuuuuuuuuuuut Clinton! So it's OK" retort, right on schedule. :roll:

Ok... were you bitchin when Mel Reyonld's, who actually had SEX with a 16 year old, was trying to cover up that relationship? I know the Democratic leadership did nothing about his behavior. There were even phone messages between Mel and this 16 year old girl, and yet the Dems did nothing.
The hypocrisy is awful.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: randym431

As former Rep. Mark Foley, under FBI investigation for e-mail exchanges with teenage congressional pages, has checked himself into rehabilitation facility for alcoholism treatment

Why is it why these republicans beat the drum on morals, then get caught having no morals, they blame it on the booze? I dont think alcohol has anything to do with it. Just an excuse for being the slime they truly are..

Do you not understand that "alcohol treatment" cures everything?
Joe Kennedy runs into a planter, I need alcohol treatment.
Mel Gibson goes on a rant against Jews, I need alcohol treatment.
Paris Hilton gets a late not burger craving. I need alcohol treatment.

It's an excuse for their bad behavior that society tends to accept. Maybe Foley will recover from this and become an advocate for making the internet safe for kids and young adults.

As aidanjm has been saying, how many of you remember the first time you saw Britney Spears? And how many of you went damn she is hot, even thought she was 17, it's morally wrong to be attracted to someone that age in our society, but in other countries a female can appear naked in magazines at 16 or 17. Furthermore, read the IMs it is not like the "kid" was turned off by this behavior and told him to stop, he was a willing participant, if Foley was only 18 or 19 no one would be talking about this.

I think it is a big issue cause some want to score political points on it.
And because Foley and the "kid" are gay and that in itself just disgusts some people.

Foley is gone, let the courts deal with him.
Now let's have an honest and non-political investigation into what the House leadership knew and when the knew. From what we know so far the leadership knew there were e-mails, but had no idea how sexual they or the IMs were.

One last thing, I want to see a timeline on how the details of this got to the press and if this information was "timed" in order to do the most damage. I think the "leakers" may have not bet on such a strong response by the GOP leadership to kick Foley out, we still have 5? weeks till the election, this will be forgotten almost everywhere buy Foley's district by then.

I have a better idea, let's take a page from the Republican play book, start a witch hunt and see how many Big Shot Republicans we can nail for perjury.

 

[ProfJohn]

My prediction on long term fall-out. If the story stays the same as it is now the Republicans most likely lose Foley?s seat, otherwise by election day most of American will have moved on.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I have a better idea, let's take a page from the Republican play book, start a witch hunt and see how many Big Shot Republicans we can nail for perjury.

Go for it

BTW how many Republicans have rushed to defend this guys behavior, how many rush to defend Clinton's? hmmmmm

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I have a better idea, let's take a page from the Republican play book, start a witch hunt and see how many Big Shot Republicans we can nail for perjury.

Go for it

BTW how many Republicans have rushed to defend this guys behavior, how many rush to defend Clinton's? hmmmmm

We're trying, just as your trying to deflect and divert.

You sure you want to compare Clintons sexual habits with this guys?? LMAO, go for it yourself.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

One last thing, I want to see a timeline on how the details of this got to the press and if this information was "timed" in order to do the most damage. I think the "leakers" may have not bet on such a strong response by the GOP leadership to kick Foley out, we still have 5? weeks till the election, this will be forgotten almost everywhere buy Foley's district by then.

And here he is with the "damn terrorist liberal media trying desperately to do damage" angle again.

Come on--can't you do any better than this?

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
My prediction on long term fall-out. If the story stays the same as it is now the Republicans most likely lose Foley?s seat, otherwise by election day most of American will have moved on.

Tony Snow said almost the same thing on TV. You are reading your talking point handbook, you have zero predictions or ideas of your own.

 

[Craig234]

Were you bitchin about "cover up" when Clinton was telling Monica to lie

Got proof?