Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Do you see me defending Foley???!!!!?!?!?!?!?!!Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Just curious... but how do you "smear" a guy who is firing off sexual IM's to an underage congressional page?
And how do you not indict the Republican leadership for ignoring his actions?
Foley fvcked up. The republican leadership ignored the embarrasment hoping it would go away. They all got caught.
Please, fer the luva God, don't try to defend this.
I am interested in how this story become "public" there is a lot of evidence that says this was not some innocent attempt to bring this information out in front of the public, but a coordinated attempt to bring this information out in a manner in which hurts the Republicans in the worse way possible.
Remember how the Monica story became public? Linda Trip tapped phone calls between herself and Monica. Remember how the Democrats raised holy hell about that fact. Or that the Democrats attack Trip because she was told to record the phone calls by a Republican?Originally posted by: LordSegan
For the record: YOU BREAK IT, YOU BUY IT.
It is WRONG that the REPUBLICAN leadership did not investigate Foley more in 2005. It is WRONG that he is going after BOYS.
It is NOT WRONG to use a little strategy to bring him and his protectors down. It is WRONG not to attack evil as effectively as you can.
The people who are seeking to destroy Foley and his protectors are doing the RIGHT thing.
How could you possibly argue any other way unless you are a pathetic party hack?
If the people who brought this story about Foley to the front page of the news paper had knowledge of these sexual IMs and did nothing then they should face legal proceedings as well. If they had information of a criminal nature, and did not tell the police about it, then they themselves are guilty of committing crimes. What part of that don't you understand?Tripp was a resident of Columbia, Maryland at the time she made her surreptitious recordings of the conversations with Lewinsky, and after 49 Democrats in the Maryland Legislature signed a letter to the state prosecutor demanding that Tripp be prosecuted she was charged by state authorities with violating Maryland's wiretap law
Let me post what I wrote in the other thread about the supposed "cover up"Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Read my edit
And what's more... how could the revelation NOT hurt Republicans?
You're playing this off like it's a dirty tricks thing. And maybe it is... But good lord... Timing be damned, the dude did something wrong and his leadership looked the other way.
If you're only argument is the timing of the revelations, welcome to american politics.
As of now there is NO evidence at all to suggest that anyone within the House leadership knew about the sexual nature of the IMs. One the day you can present me evidence that shows that ANY Republican knew Foley was sending sexual IMs to former pages then I will join you in calling for their resignation. Until then all this talk about a "cover up" has no solid basis.Two newspapers knew about and had read the content of the e-mails. The same e-mails that the House Republican leadership knew about.
Both of the newspapers looked into the story and decided that there was nothing there worth reporting on.
That makes two newspapers and I believe three congressmen that looked into the e-mails and decided that they were icky, but that nothing else should be done about them. (Other than telling Foley to stop sending e-mails to the kid)
Despite this some of you on the left think there was some big cover up in order for the Republican Party to save ONE house seat out of 435. Do you think the leadership is so stupid as to cover up this story in hopes of saving just one seat knowing the political damage such a cover up would have created.
We are to believe that these three Republicans were so worried about saving Foley?s seat that they just absentmindedly forgot that covering up any illegal or immoral behavior would cost them their own seats? Do you not see how much of a stretch you are making on this? Or is your own partisan behavior and hopes for a scandal to knock the Republicans from power made you blind to reality?
As I said before, Foley?s behavior is morally repugnant and if he broke the law he will pay for that in a court of law. I, in no way shape or form excuse Foley for his behavior.
Well thank you for at least making an attempt to understand my point.Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
John... I understand where you're trying to go... but you're not going to win this one.
So he gave both male and female pages his e-mail address?In the hierarchy of Congress, the high school students who serve as Congressional pages fall somewhere near the bottom, seemingly invisible as they scurry through the hallways of the Capitol ferrying messages to powerful lawmakers who often fail to give them a second glance.
In that rarefied world, Representative Mark Foley, the silver-haired Republican from Florida, stood out.
He took pains to befriend the 16- and 17-year-old aides, several former pages said in interviews on Sunday. He chatted with them on the House floor, they said, sent handwritten notes and urged them to keep in touch when they left Washington for their hometowns.
In 2002, he even stood up on the floor of the House, his eyes welling with tears, and commended the young men and women for their year of service. In his speech, Mr. Foley mentioned several of the high school students by name, describing a handwritten note to celebrate one young man?s graduation and a lunch with another at Morton?s steak house.
Ashley Gallo, a 21-year-old former page who is now a senior at Western Michigan University, said on Sunday that many of her friends had viewed Mr. Foley as one of the few lawmakers who made a real effort to reach out to young people.
?You didn?t have a lot of interaction with the members because most of them treated you like a kid, but he was pretty friendly,? said Ms. Gallo, who served as a page in 2001. ?He would talk to people,? she said.
?He would say, ?Here?s my e-mail address if you want to keep in touch.? I don?t think anyone thought anything of it. They saw him as a mentor or a reference.?
"Were you bitchin about "cover up" when Clinton was telling Monica to lie"
Got proof?
... telling Monica to lie about it is illegal.
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Last post on this wonderful topic for today.
Two newspapers knew about and had read the content of the e-mails. The same e-mails that the House Republican leadership knew about.
Both of the newspapers looked into the story and decided that there was nothing there worth reporting on.
That makes two newspapers and I believe three congressmen that looked into the e-mails and decided that they were icky, but that nothing else should be done about them. (Other than telling Foley to stop sending e-mails to the kid)
Despite this some of you on the left think there was some big cover up in order for the Republican Party to save ONE house seat out of 435. Do you think the leadership is so stupid as to cover up this story in hopes of saving just one seat knowing the political damage such a cover up would have created.
We are to believe that these three Republicans were so worried about saving Foley?s seat that they just absentmindedly forgot that covering up any illegal or immoral behavior would cost them their own seats? Do you not see how much of a stretch you are making on this? Or is your own partisan behavior and hopes for a scandal to knock the Republicans from power made you blind to reality?
As I said before, Foley?s behavior is morally repugnant and if he broke the law he will pay for that in a court of law. I, in no way shape or form excuse Foley for his behavior.
Originally posted by: dahunan
If the man was possibly raping young boys then people should be afraid to finally tell the media and public about this?
Originally posted by: sandorski
Why would people be upset more about the timing rather than the coverup?
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Remember how the Monica story became public? Linda Trip tapped phone calls between herself and Monica. Remember how the Democrats raised holy hell about that fact. Or that the Democrats attack Trip because she was told to record the phone calls by a Republican?Originally posted by: LordSegan
For the record: YOU BREAK IT, YOU BUY IT.
It is WRONG that the REPUBLICAN leadership did not investigate Foley more in 2005. It is WRONG that he is going after BOYS.
It is NOT WRONG to use a little strategy to bring him and his protectors down. It is WRONG not to attack evil as effectively as you can.
The people who are seeking to destroy Foley and his protectors are doing the RIGHT thing.
How could you possibly argue any other way unless you are a pathetic party hack?
Let me refresh your memory:
If the people who brought this story about Foley to the front page of the news paper had knowledge of these sexual IMs and did nothing then they should face legal proceedings as well. If they had information of a criminal nature, and did not tell the police about it, then they themselves are guilty of committing crimes. What part of that don't you understand?Tripp was a resident of Columbia, Maryland at the time she made her surreptitious recordings of the conversations with Lewinsky, and after 49 Democrats in the Maryland Legislature signed a letter to the state prosecutor demanding that Tripp be prosecuted she was charged by state authorities with violating Maryland's wiretap law
For the record: what Mark Foley did was morally wrong and repugnant. If he broke any laws then he should be held accountable for his actions. Furthermore, his resigning was the right act for him to take, and perhaps the only correct thing he did in this whole affair.
Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Remember how the Monica story became public? Linda Trip tapped phone calls between herself and Monica. Remember how the Democrats raised holy hell about that fact. Or that the Democrats attack Trip because she was told to record the phone calls by a Republican?Originally posted by: LordSegan
For the record: YOU BREAK IT, YOU BUY IT.
It is WRONG that the REPUBLICAN leadership did not investigate Foley more in 2005. It is WRONG that he is going after BOYS.
It is NOT WRONG to use a little strategy to bring him and his protectors down. It is WRONG not to attack evil as effectively as you can.
The people who are seeking to destroy Foley and his protectors are doing the RIGHT thing.
How could you possibly argue any other way unless you are a pathetic party hack?
Let me refresh your memory:
If the people who brought this story about Foley to the front page of the news paper had knowledge of these sexual IMs and did nothing then they should face legal proceedings as well. If they had information of a criminal nature, and did not tell the police about it, then they themselves are guilty of committing crimes. What part of that don't you understand?Tripp was a resident of Columbia, Maryland at the time she made her surreptitious recordings of the conversations with Lewinsky, and after 49 Democrats in the Maryland Legislature signed a letter to the state prosecutor demanding that Tripp be prosecuted she was charged by state authorities with violating Maryland's wiretap law
For the record: what Mark Foley did was morally wrong and repugnant. If he broke any laws then he should be held accountable for his actions. Furthermore, his resigning was the right act for him to take, and perhaps the only correct thing he did in this whole affair.
You are being hypocritical in the highest degree. You are constantly bringing up Clinton and his lying and Monica but now bring out how the the Democrats cried foul about taped call? Hypocrite to the highest degree. Why are you not bashing the Republicans for their obvious personal and political bs for spending 40 million investigating Clinton and impeaching him over a fricking private affair. Hypocrite you are and this thread exposes you.
YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO OBFUSCATE THIS FALLOUT BY SLYLY AND SUBTLY TRYING TO BRING FOCUS BACK ONTO THE DEMOCRATS AS USING THIS TO THEIR POLTICAL ADVANTAGE AFTER CONTINUALLY CALLING OUT CLINTON AS A LIAR AFTER THE REPUBLICANS DID THE SAME THING. HYPOCRITE.
And yes I am a Republican but you are ridiculous
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: sandorski
Why would people be upset more about the timing rather than the coverup?
Because it is an indication that the Democrats involved are as morally bankrupt as the Republicans who were involved in the 'cover-up'. If democrats held back from publicising the details of Foley's indiscretion - for the purpose of timing the revelation for maximum impact at the polls - then they are guilty of their own kind of cover up. Republicans covered up to minimise damage to their party at the upcoming polls; but it appears that Democrats did a similar thing - i.e., they held back on publicising the details until recently in order to inflict maximum damage on the Republicans at the polls. That is a very cynical ploy if it happened that way.
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Do you see me defending Foley???!!!!?!?!?!?!?!!Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Just curious... but how do you "smear" a guy who is firing off sexual IM's to an underage congressional page?
And how do you not indict the Republican leadership for ignoring his actions?
Foley fvcked up. The republican leadership ignored the embarrasment hoping it would go away. They all got caught.
Please, fer the luva God, don't try to defend this.
I am interested in how this story become "public" there is a lot of evidence that says this was not some innocent attempt to bring this information out in front of the public, but a coordinated attempt to bring this information out in a manner in which hurts the Republicans in the worse way possible.
Originally posted by: Thump553
ProfJohn, the conspiracy theory you dug up may be interesting but it is irrelevant. For many, many years now national politics has been a hardball, no holds barred, scorched earth battle. Both parties have plenty of operatives-both paid and volunteers-who dig endlessly among their opponents background to find any hint of scandal.
Personally I'm somewhat astonished that this hypocritcal slimeball has gotten away with his practices for so long-sixteen years in the fishbowl of Washington is an enternity for dirt of this type. I'm personally more interested in what efforts, if any, there was to bury this scandal until safely after the election-for that type of corruption is far more corrosive to our form of government than the supposed timing of exposing the other side's dirty secrets.
Remember Thomas Eagleton? He was George McGovern's VP running mate until Nixon's thugs leaked it to the press that Eagleton had previously undergone mental illness treatments. Was the GOP acting improper in not keeping that "scandal" under wraps until after the election, or did the GOP act properly in bringing them to the public light before the election, much to the GOP's political benefit?
If this really was a timed expose, I think they pulled the trigger a bit early. It would be more effective two weeks before the election, given the short attention span many people (and essentially all of the mass media) have.
I question why you seem to feel it would be better-or fairer somehow-if this scandal did not come to light until after the scumbag was re-elected. Personally I'm in favor of exposure of all relevant facts prior to the decision making. Could you please elaborate as to why (assume your conspiracy theory is valid) disclosure of Foley's wrongdoing at this point is improper?
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: dahunan
If the man was possibly raping young boys then people should be afraid to finally tell the media and public about this?
Rape? "Young boys"? Lol. The so-called "young boys" - I'd call them young men - were 16 or older (old enough to legally consent to sex with an adult of any age in DC). There was no sex involved - we're talking about a sleazy instant messaging conversation. Inappropriate internet communications. This is a minor transgression in the grand scheme of things. I think it is unfortunate the Democrats or supporters feel the need to exaggerate or lie about what Foley actually did. Foley has to take responsibility for his own actions; but I think the fact he is a homosexual who has spent his entire adult life in the closet has to have had a distorting effect on his attitudes and behaviors.