Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona

[sandorski]

So are you saying that gives people an excuse to kill people who enact policies and propose ideas you dissagree with?

He didn't "say" that, just Implied it.

 

[shira]

This was my thought. This is Arizona, we pride ourselves on being the most gun friendly state in the nation. You can't tell me the shooter was the only one armed.

So by your reasoning we should allow everyone to carry live hand grenades, because if some crazy person throws a grenade into a group of school children, another, responsible member of society will throw a hand grenade at the crazy and prevent the crazy from killing 20 more kids.

I'm soooo convinced . . . .

 

[Pens1566]

2nd amendment remedies?

 

[Generator]

I knew about Rick's list, but not Sarah Palin's Hit list. Absolutely fucking despicable.

 

[sandorski]

So by your reasoning we should allow everyone to carry live hand grenades, because if some crazy person throws a grenade into a group of school children, another, responsible member of society will throw a hand grenade at the crazy and prevent the crazy from killing 20 more kids.

I'm soooo convinced . . . .

I think he just nullified the whole CCW prevents Crimes BS.

 

[MotF Bane]

..

 

[PeshakJang]

So by your reasoning we should allow everyone to carry live hand grenades, because if some crazy person throws a grenade into a group of school children, another, responsible member of society will throw a hand grenade at the crazy and prevent the crazy from killing 20 more kids.

I'm soooo convinced . . . .

How about if a crazy person throws a grenade, a responsible member of society shoots him before he can throw another?

Are you drinking the paint today?

 

[shira]

Supposedly the shooter's YouTube channel. I just got this from another forum so it's not verified.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

If this is indeed the shooter, then he's clearly a paranoid schizophrenic.

 

[JohnnyGage]

I think he just nullified the whole CCW prevents Crimes BS.

You're right, strawmen nullify everthing.

 

[exdeath]

So are you saying that gives people an excuse to kill people who enact policies and propose ideas you dissagree with?

For simply disagreeing with their policy? No.

When your life is negatively affected in some way by the enforcement of a policy? Yeah it's justified to the person who's life has been impacted negatively.

I'm not taking sides here, just saying what it is. And obviously this isn't even the case here. From the info so far, the guy was just a random nut and probably just went after the most publically accessible political figure he could.

I'll give you an example. I enjoy muscle cars and powerful engines. With the popularity of "green" politics and hybrids, fuel economy standards, demonizing gas guzzlers, gas prices, oil dependence, etc, there is a very real potential that there will be future political action to ban or make it prohibitive to own or drive the types of vehicles and hobby I enjoy. Whether it's banning them outright, or taxing them so as to make it prohibitive, it affects my life in a real and physical way that I do not approve of.

While I wouldn't go out of my way to actively pursue a political figure, I would choose to ignore such policies that attempt to deprive me of my property and attempt to just live my life and go about my business and hope that I'm left alone. But if and when confronted, as a last resort, I would make enforcement impossible by defending myself and my property from anyone who would attempt to assault me or confiscate my "forbidden" property.

I'm just saying politics isn't just something we watch on TV for fun. Decisions are made that have a real physical effects on people's lives, and it's understandably going to upset people or groups of people.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

You guys really are fucking just as insane as the gunman IMHO. Drawing parallels between Sarah's campaign comments and the motives of this wacko is beyond stupid.

Considering that other then this guy's favorite reading selection and implied view of the US and its flag (If the youtube page is his) then it is completely incorrect to draw some conclusion that this idiot was someone how influenced by Sarah Palin anymore then the band Drowning Pool influenced him with ideas to kill people.

Maybe just maybe this guy didn't need any motivation to actually kill someone outside of the wacko motivation he found in his own head.

 

[marincounty]

We had a similar buildup of outrageous right wing rhetoric, then Timothy McVeigh blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma city. Kind of tamped things down for a few years.
Lately we've had Bill O'Reilly railing about the abortion doctor, who was later shot.
And Palin with her target map, and talking about reloading. And now someone on Palin's map is shot. Right wingers in leadership positions need to watch their language, because some of their supporters are dangerously unhinged, and words have consequences.

 

[PottedMeat]

This was my thought. This is Arizona, we pride ourselves on being the most gun friendly state in the nation. You can't tell me the shooter was the only one armed.

What are the rules in the middle of a crowd? Can't really do anything with innocent people everywhere trying to get out of the way.

 

[JohnnyGage]

We had a similar buildup of outrageous right wing rhetoric, then Timothy McVeigh blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma city. Kind of tamped things down for a few years.
Lately we've had Bill O'Reilly railing about the abortion doctor, who was later shot.
And Palin with her target map, and talking about reloading. And now someone on Palin's map is shot. Right wingers in leadership positions need to watch their language, because some of their supporters are dangerously unhinged, and words have consequences.

/facepalm

 

[Arkaign]

If this is the guy, then the politics turned him into an unstable sociopath in the same way video games corrupted the Columbine killers (which is to say not at all, but people will blame it anyway). This guy would have been messed up regardless of what anyone else did.

Agreed, which is why the blame game is so useless/inappropriate in cases like this. A person of this mental instability might have wigged out and started spraypainting dogs green and shooting midgets had one of his favorite websites or tv shows been shut down, or maybe for no other reason than the voices in his head telling him that Robert Oppenheimer wanted him to join the nuclear penguin secret hero league. In this case he just happened to latch onto the public hate/dissent and jumped on a bandwagon that ended in tragedy. It sounds like there has been a ton of partisan bickering and division in the area, though actions of this nature are purely insane and not at all reflective of the population at large. I would guess that many tens of thousands if not tens of thousands of individuals own guns in that part of the country, and many of them probably aren't friendly to either the democrats or the republicans, but you don't hear madness like this happening on a daily, weekly, monthly, or even yearly basis.

 

[sandorski]

You're right, strawmen nullify everthing.

Talk to exdeath, he seems to disagree.

 

[nick1985]

So by your reasoning we should allow everyone to carry live hand grenades, because if some crazy person throws a grenade into a group of school children, another, responsible member of society will throw a hand grenade at the crazy and prevent the crazy from killing 20 more kids.

I'm soooo convinced . . . .

hand grenades are classified as ordnance, not a right granted in the 2nd amendment.

 

[hal2kilo]

If this is indeed the shooter, then he's clearly a paranoid schizophrenic.

That, or extremely bipolar. Sad.

 

[Steeplerot]

We had a similar buildup of outrageous right wing rhetoric, then Timothy McVeigh blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma city. Kind of tamped things down for a few years.
Lately we've had Bill O'Reilly railing about the abortion doctor, who was later shot.
And Palin with her target map, and talking about reloading. And now someone on Palin's map is shot. Right wingers in leadership positions need to watch their language, because some of their supporters are dangerously unhinged, and words have consequences.

To expand on this From raw:


This rhetoric also acts as a kind of wedge between the people who absorb it and the real world. There is always a kind of cognitive dissonance that arises from believing things that are provably untrue, and people who begin to fanatically cling to beliefs that do not comport with reality find themselves increasingly willing to buy into other similarly unhinged beliefs. For those who are already unhinged, the effects are particularly toxic.

All of these theories, you'll observe, serve the explicit purpose of supporting a scapegoating narrative. And a number of them have been featured in some shape, form, or fashion, in the mainstream public discourse because they have been presented seriously for discussion by various right-wing talking heads, most notably Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs.

But pointing out their ethical and moral culpability inevitably means that they immediately blame it on the "crazy" people, and who can take responsibility for "crazy" people?

 

[hal2kilo]

For simply disagreeing with their policy? No.

When your life is negatively affected in some way by the enforcement of a policy? Yeah it's justified to the person who's life has been impacted negatively.

I'm not taking sides here, just saying what it is. And obviously this isn't even the case here. From the info so far, the guy was just a random nut and probably just went after the most publically accessible political figure he could.

I'll give you an example. I enjoy muscle cars and powerful engines. With the popularity of "green" politics and hybrids, fuel economy standards, demonizing gas guzzlers, gas prices, oil dependence, etc, there is a very real potential that there will be future political action to ban or make it prohibitive to own or drive the types of vehicles and hobby I enjoy. Whether it's banning them outright, or taxing them so as to make it prohibitive, it affects my life in a real and physical way that I do not approve of.

While I wouldn't go out of my way to actively pursue a political figure, I would choose to ignore such policies that attempt to deprive me of my property and attempt to just live my life and go about my business and hope that I'm left alone. But if and when confronted, as a last resort, I would make enforcement impossible by defending myself and my property from anyone who would attempt to assault me or confiscate my "forbidden" property.

I'm just saying politics isn't just something we watch on TV for fun. Decisions are made that have a real physical effects on people's lives, and it's understandably going to upset people or groups of people.

So you don't believe in law and order.

 

[shira]

Let's hope that happens no matter the reason this nutjob pulled the trigger today.

One perfect outcome of this tragedy would be if the shooter tells the news media that Palin was his inspiration.

 

[shira]

probably not, but in the end most gun owners are pussies at heart.

That's why I laugh at most of them. I can fight just find hand to hand without a gun.

I do believe they have a major purpose though. Just most that buy them do it to increase penor size.

The smaller the penis, the bigger the gun.

 

[hal2kilo]

One perfect outcome of this tragedy would be if the shooter tells the news media that Palin was his inspiration.

Can't we let it go for this sad day?

 

[exdeath]

So you don't believe in law and order.

I do, however I am guided by what is right, not necessarily what is law.

I offer this perspective:

Persecution of blacks and jews were both justified under law.

When law is twisted in such a way to violate the life, liberty, and property of the individual, not only do I not believe in it, I abhor it.

The root purpose of law and order is to *protect* life, liberty, and property, not take it away.

 

[JD50]

One perfect outcome of this tragedy would be if the shooter tells the news media that Palin was his inspiration.

You're sick.