Connecticut School shooting!

[Grooveriding]

Just ban the production of ammunition altogether. Pull whatever stock is out there and destroy it. Gradually what is left out there will deplete to the point its value is prohibitive for most people, apart from real criminal enterprises that make substantial money or the rich. Sure you can make ammo in your basement, but it will run the same premium, as well as the risk of lengthy imprisonment - not to mention the materials used to produce it can also be outlawed, forcing further illegal production of powder etc. Alternately, simply raise the price of ammunition 10,000 fold. A gun is useless without something to shoot out of it.

Sure you can use any old thing to kill another person, but a knife, baseball bat, bare hands etc. all are nowhere near as efficient or safe to use as a gun is. Any other method involves getting in close to your victim or takes more time than a split second to pull a trigger.

As well, ban the sale of handguns and automatic/semi-automatic weapons. They serve no purpose but killing human beings.

Of course none of this does anything to change the dysfunctional mentality that appears systemic to the United States with how often this lunacy happens there compared to other countries.

 

[jpeyton]

I think they should lift the ban on Norinco firearms imports. Let a flood of inexpensive Chinese firearms and ammunition drive prices even lower. 1000 rounds for my AK shouldn't cost more than a Benjamin.

Then repeal the National Firearms Act. Do we really need to wait 8 months and pay $200 for cool shit like silencers and short barreled rifles? Hell no.

 

[Ausm]

I think they should lift the ban on Norinco firearms imports. Let a flood of inexpensive Chinese firearms and ammunition drive prices even lower. 1000 rounds for my AK shouldn't cost more than a Benjamin.

Then repeal the National Firearms Act. Do we really need to wait 8 months and pay $200 for cool shit like silencers and short barreled rifles? Hell no.

You sound like a lobbyist for the NRA.

 

[Druidx]

I've got no problem with additional gun control restrictions as long as they are reasonable and have some hope at addressing the current problems. The idea some people have that removal of guns via a ban is possible is completely ridiculous. If we can't keep illegal drugs from coming in or illegible people for that matter, why would you think we could efficiently stop guns. A ban would only create a new black market.

 

[Agent11]

The local paper had an article on the shooting,.

On the headline. Police: Gunman used semiautomatic rifle

I have noticed this sort of villainization of semiautomatic weapons in other media as well, and it is on the rise. As if we should all be using black powder and be grateful the government allows it.

 

[Exterous]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

Here's a great article with tons of data about the mass killings that happened in the US in the past 30 years. The biggest surprise (or lack of surprise) was just how many guns were purchased legally, so easily by people who had history of mental illness

One thing that honestly struck me from that site was how low the number of fatalities from mass shootings actually was. A rough calculation from here: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation shows about 400 people killed in the last 30 years from mass shootings or about 13 people per year. I am thinking the mass media coverage that goes on for days or weeks has led me to think the number would be higher.

I think the crux of the issue is at what point does the human cost of a personal freedom outweigh the value of that freedom. Does a 0.0000004% chance of being in a mass shooting per year justify or add significant justification to greatly alter our society in ways that many consider unacceptable?

The answer will obviously vary person to person but my view is that it is a dangerous world and every chance of death cannot be legislated away. You can die just from walking down the stairs in the morning. If you believe the study reported on by the BBC you actually have a greater chance of death by stairs than death by mass shooting. Should we legislate away stairs? They are not a 'must have' for survival. It also dis-proportionally targets those less able to defend themselves - the elderly and the very young.

I do agree with others in terms of expanding the availability of mental health services. I wonder if there is a wide spread stigma associated with seeking such help and if increasing the availability of these services would less that stigma.

 

[zsdersw]

Saying gun control is necessary and effective at preventing tragedies like this is like saying speed limiters in cars prevent high-speed chases.

I'm very much anti-gun control.

Knee-jerk reactions to major tragedies, like everyone's new-found interest in gun control, are how the worst and least effective laws/regulations get created and passed.

 

[nehalem256]

Saying gun control is necessary and effective at preventing tragedies like this is like saying speed limiters in cars prevent high-speed chases.

Isn't it actually more like saying that speed limits prevent high-speed chases?

 

[zsdersw]

Isn't it actually more like saying that speed limits prevent high-speed chases?

Not really. Speed limiters come into play more in high-speed chases than speed limits... as they are an actual limitation on how fast a car can go, not a law that someone chooses to follow or ignore.

 

[sigurros81]

One thing that honestly struck me from that site was how low the number of fatalities from mass shootings actually was. A rough calculation from here: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation shows about 400 people killed in the last 30 years from mass shootings or about 13 people per year. I am thinking the mass media coverage that goes on for days or weeks has led me to think the number would be higher.

I think the crux of the issue is at what point does the human cost of a personal freedom outweigh the value of that freedom. Does a 0.0000004% chance of being in a mass shooting per year justify or add significant justification to greatly alter our society in ways that many consider unacceptable?

The answer will obviously vary person to person but my view is that it is a dangerous world and every chance of death cannot be legislated away. You can die just from walking down the stairs in the morning. If you believe the study reported on by the BBC you actually have a greater chance of death by stairs than death by mass shooting. Should we legislate away stairs? They are not a 'must have' for survival. It also dis-proportionally targets those less able to defend themselves - the elderly and the very young.

I do agree with others in terms of expanding the availability of mental health services. I wonder if there is a wide spread stigma associated with seeking such help and if increasing the availability of these services would less that stigma.

The problem with this argument is that you convert the value of human life into mere statistical numbers. I do agree the media acts like vultures when tragedies like this happen, but I would like to see the US (and the world) at least talk about what we can do to curb such senseless violence.

I accept that there will always be a percentage of the population that are messed up psychologically, we need to address the issue of how such people are able to access guns so easily.

 

[jpeyton]

The problem with this argument is that you convert the value of human life into mere statistical numbers.

It's not a problem, it's just reality. If our hearts bled for every ounce of suffering on this planet, people would be paralyzed by grief and nothing would get accomplished.

 

[jackstar7]

Dear lord. Thank you for republicans in the house. Amen.

Our country is in stuggle against evil. I know they have rejected your hand but I know you are with me.

Those in this tradgedy have rejected your word and guidece.

I pray for them and this country. Give me the strength to combat this evil. Amen.

Am I reading this correctly, or are you fucking terrible at phrasing your "thoughts"? Are you blaming the victims (teachers and children) for their own murders because they turned away from your fairy tales?

Did I miss where you were part of the WBC?

What's that phrase you love so much? Oh yeah: Fuck be upon you, dumbnuts.

 

[jackstar7]

I read what he said. He'd be the kind of jackass to support government backdoors into operating systems and the banning of encrypted communications. It's the exact same "reasonable measures" crap with computers that people advocate for "public safety" but in reality all it does is let the government fuck people over even more easily.

We are our government.

 

[nehalem256]

I accept that there will always be a percentage of the population that are messed up psychologically, we need to address the issue of how such people are able to access guns so easily.

I don't know if I would call murdering someone and taking their guns "easy access" exactly.

 

[jackstar7]

Go read about Operation Fast and Furious, i.e. Obama's under-the-radar attempt to smear the 2A community by forcing US gun stores to illegally sell guns to drug cartel gun mules. Then the DEA would magically discover the guns at Mexican crime scenes, and there you have it, a PR coup for gun control.

Weird. I did read about it. Your theory didn't come up.

 

[jackstar7]

I don't know if I would call murdering someone and taking their guns "easy access" exactly.

People never heard of a gun safe?

 

[sigurros81]

It's not a problem, it's just reality. If our hearts bled for every ounce of suffering on this planet, people would be paralyzed by grief and nothing would get accomplished.

Yeah, I understand your point, but it's not even about bleeding hearts and grieving. The way I see it, you are making the same mistake the rest of society is making when it comes to dealing with these issues.

It is a bold statement, but to lump the deaths of innocents into mere numbers is one of the many wrongs with America. We need to teach kids and the new generations the value of human life.

 

[dabuddha]

I dunno if this was mentioned or not but apparently the shooter's mom was a "survivalist?" If true, more proof that failed parenting was definitely an issue.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/339227

 

[jpeyton]

I dunno if this was mentioned or not but apparently the shooter's mom was a "survivalist?" If true, more proof that failed parenting was definitely an issue.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/339227

Doomsday prepper wannbe?

 

[sigurros81]

I dunno if this was mentioned or not but apparently the shooter's mom was a "survivalist?" If true, more proof that failed parenting was definitely an issue.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/339227

I'm going to reserve judgement until later. I really cannot trust the media these days, they'll report one convenient thing one day, and another story the next.

 

[nehalem256]

As well, ban the sale of handguns and automatic/semi-automatic weapons. They serve no purpose but killing human beings.

Of course none of this does anything to change the dysfunctional mentality that appears systemic to the United States with how often this lunacy happens there compared to other countries.

You do realize that in the last 50 years you are more likely to be mass killed in Norway than the United States right?

 

[jpeyton]

A friend of mine went to a gun show on 12/15. There was a 2-3 hour wait to run your background check, if it was working at all.

He passed on the long wait and headed to a local gun shop instead. The owner told him that Saturday was the busiest sales day they have ever had in their 20 years of operation.

 

[Exterous]

Yeah, I understand your point, but it's not even about bleeding hearts and grieving. The way I see it, you are making the same mistake the rest of society is making when it comes to dealing with these issues.

It is a bold statement, but to lump the deaths of innocents into mere numbers is one of the many wrongs with America. We need to teach kids and the new generations the value of human life.

Very well - how do you choose which risks to legislate against if not by the number (scope) of those affected?

 

[jackstar7]

A friend of mine went to a gun show on 12/15. There was a 2-3 hour wait to run your background check, if it was working at all.

He passed on the long wait and headed to a local gun shop instead. The owner told him that Saturday was the busiest sales day they have ever had in their 20 years of operation.

A fool and his money...

 

[Todd33]

The local paper had an article on the shooting,.

On the headline. Police: Gunman used semiautomatic rifle

I have noticed this sort of villainization of semiautomatic weapons in other media as well, and it is on the rise. As if we should all be using black powder and be grateful the government allows it.

There are bolt action rifles, which are great for hunting but not optimal for mass murder.