Connecticut School shooting!

[Don Vito Corleone]

Not defending Spidey or saying an AWB would be the end of the world, but assault weapons are a much needed buffer zone for gun rights IMO.

Say we go into fantasy land, the ban on everything from hi-cap mags to assault weapons is perfect. What happens when the next shooting happens with 10 round mags?

If the Clinton AWB were still in place today, the only difference is we'd be debating banning guns with detachable magazines, although that would admittedly be a much harder fight than assault weapons.

I do not support any new weapons ban, but I don't believe the slippery-slope argument you're making is plausible at all. I don't see any realistic way that the US government would ever ban all guns with removable magazines, and even if they did (which would never happen), there are so many hundreds of millions of guns already in circulation that there won't be a shortage of them anytime in the foreseeable future.

 

[lotus503]

Oh, you mean facts like "most likely", "it is possible", and "more likely?" Yeah, you'd definitely qualify for a mainstream media reporter with those kinds of facts.

And way to ignore and divert the underlying issue, like a real pro.... If you knew anything at all about violent crime, then you'd know that the criminals prefer to attack a target where they have the advantage, as opposed to a hard target that will cost them their lives. They will use planning and observation before carrying out the actual attack, and they will not go on a shooting spree at a gun range that will render them dead before the cops even show up.

Secondly, the cops are always the second responders to a crime. The first responders are the actual people involved in the initial confrontation. Even if the cops get there in 1 minute, it's not gonna do you any good when you have seconds to act that will determine whether you live or die.

Lol the facts are the timing, positioning, distance and the police evidence. If you knew the mall in question you would appreciate how absurd it is to claim meli caused the shooter to kill himself.

But no you fruits desperately need a CCW to save the day.

 

[Farmer]

I do not support any new weapons ban, but I don't believe the slippery-slope argument you're making is plausible at all. I don't see any realistic way that the US government would ever ban all guns with removable magazines, and even if they did (which would never happen), there are so many hundreds of millions of guns already in circulation that there won't be a shortage of them anytime in the foreseeable future.

There is a massive shortage right now.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I do not support any new weapons ban, but I don't believe the slippery-slope argument you're making is plausible at all. I don't see any realistic way that the US government would ever ban all guns with removable magazines, and even if they did (which would never happen), there are so many hundreds of millions of guns already in circulation that there won't be a shortage of them anytime in the foreseeable future.

I just looked and can't find a single AK variant rifle in stock anywhere, that would qualify as a shortage in my book.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

There is a massive shortage right now.

No, there is not. I was talking specifically about guns with removable magazines, not necessarily assault weapons, but in either case I can easily go to my local gun store (Bill's Gun Shop in Robbinsdale, MN) and buy either, not to mention that I can go on gunsamerica or a similar site and easily buy just about anything. Even if new restrictions were introduced it would not eliminate a robust secondary market - it's not as though it was hard to get a used AR or AK during the AWB era.

The fact that sales are so robust right now goes mainly to the gullibility of the American people IMO. Gun sales have been at record highs since Obama's first election because the NRA talked fools into believing he intended to make guns illegal. It is possible there will be some minor restrictions put in place in the aftermath of Sandy Hook, but there is no way that they will be any more onerous than the AWB.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I just looked and can't find a single AK variant rifle in stock anywhere, that would qualify as a shortage in my book.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Category/8/2/Guns/Rifles/AK-47-Rifles.htm

EDIT: Upon more careful review it does appear that many of these vendors are out of stock.

 

[jackstar7]

You're being disingenuous if you think he "reversed" any position. He already supported the state-level AWB in MA, just like Romney did (who is also a Republican). Jumping from support of a state-level AWB to a national AWB isn't exactly a leap of faith.

You're taking the position that Republicans treat state and federal laws and equivalent now? Last I checked they touted a vast gulf of difference between the two... and which rights should be paramount.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Curious Spidey
What is the justifiable need for having AK47s around the house?
Is it because that you can pretend it is an semi-auto and spray rounds all over?
It is not giving you decent accuracy unless on single shot anyhow. In that case, there are much better weapons than that to mid range shooting.

I have a 12 gauge and a 30.06. Having been in the military; never saw the justification for having a personal semi except for ego. Never functional justification.

 

[irishScott]

Curious Spidey
What is the justifiable need for having AK47s around the house?
Is it because that you can pretend it is an semi-auto and spray rounds all over?
It is not giving you decent accuracy unless on single shot anyhow. In that case, there are much better weapons than that to mid range shooting.

I have a 12 gauge and a 30.06. Having been in the military; never saw the justification for having a personal semi except for ego. Never functional justification.

I think you mean full-auto.

Semi-auto is one shot per trigger pull.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I think you mean full-auto.

Semi-auto is one shot per trigger pull.

As I understood it the ones Spidey is acquiring are full-auto (though I too was a little confused by part of EK's post).

 

[irishScott]

I do not support any new weapons ban, but I don't believe the slippery-slope argument you're making is plausible at all. I don't see any realistic way that the US government would ever ban all guns with removable magazines, and even if they did (which would never happen), there are so many hundreds of millions of guns already in circulation that there won't be a shortage of them anytime in the foreseeable future.

ORLY? Because I've heard/read multiple commentators pointing out the "flaws" in the Clinton AWB, and among others the fact that vendors could easily get around the magazine capacity issue with quick reloading mechanisms.

Just because it makes no sense doesn't mean the government wouldn't do it, the AWB and "high capacity magazines" issue are evidence of that in and of themselves. Get enough ignorant parents panicking and you can get a lot done. Remember that gun owners are still a minority in the US, with regional concentrations. There are many out there who have never seen nor held a gun, and to them "revolvers only" might make sense.

 

[spidey07]

Curious Spidey
What is the justifiable need for having AK47s around the house?
Is it because that you can pretend it is an semi-auto and spray rounds all over?
It is not giving you decent accuracy unless on single shot anyhow. In that case, there are much better weapons than that to mid range shooting.

I have a 12 gauge and a 30.06. Having been in the military; never saw the justification for having a personal semi except for ego. Never functional justification.

Engage multiple targets, quality round. Intruders are rarely alone.

Remember, all these "assault rifles" are all semi-auto. One trigger pull, one shot.

In all honesty my defense weapons are ARs and handguns (there is also a shotgun with 00 buck). I just want an AK because of the higher fire power. Probably not a good idea to use in the house because of penetration.

 

[spidey07]

A full auto AK47 STARTS at 15k. And as mentioned full auto isn't accurate at all. I don't think an assault rifle has ever been used in any mass shooting.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

ORLY? Because I've heard/read multiple commentators pointing out the "flaws" in the Clinton AWB, and among others the fact that vendors could easily get around the magazine capacity issue with quick reloading mechanisms.

Just because it makes no sense doesn't mean the government wouldn't do it, the AWB and "high capacity magazines" issue are evidence of that in and of themselves. Get enough ignorant parents panicking and you can get a lot done. Remember that gun owners are still a minority in the US, with regional concentrations. There are many out there who have never seen nor held a gun, and to them "revolvers only" might make sense.

I very seriously doubt it - Congress would never go for that because too much of the public would be incensed. The most recent polling I've seen (yesterday) suggested that the majority of Americans favor some degree of new gun restrictions, but I can't imagine most people saying they would favor making magazine-loaded pistols illegal (though as you say, there is a lot of ignorance out there about guns, and the phrase "semi-automatic" sounds scary to some people who are completely ignorant).

 

[Todd33]

A full auto AK47 STARTS at 15k. And as mentioned full auto isn't accurate at all. I don't think an assault rifle has ever been used in any mass shooting.

Who made the definition of "assault rifle"? I would think a realistic definition is any non-bolt action, military style rifle. Semi or otherwise. Anything that is not specifically used for hunting at long range.

Basically guns made to kill people, hence "assault".

 

[spidey07]

An assault rifle must be selective fire and/or full auto. A semi-automatic rifle cannot be called an assault rifle by definition.

It's exactly the same as you can't call a hand gun a "machine gun".

And this whole "military style" bullshit is nothing but cosmetic features.

 

[Genx87]

I will say my confidence in the American public is good that when the dust is settled and emotions taken from the debate. A gun ban has little chance of passing or being supported. The polling right now just days after the shooting has a very very slim majority ok with gun restrictions. The evidence is just too much that gun bans fail for people to buy into it. I think a lot of people are asking about mental health awarness and what we can do to more secure our schools from crazy people

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

An assault rifle must be selective fire and/or full auto. A semi-automatic rifle cannot be called an assault rifle by definition.

Obviously that is just one definition. It's not as though there is an Oxford English Dictionary definition of the phrase "assault rifle," and yours is different than the (admittedly silly) one Congress applied in the AWB and the Merriam Webster definition ("any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles with large capacity magazines designed for military use").

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I will say my confidence in the American public is good that when the dust is settled and emotions taken from the debate. A gun ban has little chance of passing or being supported. The polling right now just days after the shooting has a very very slim majority ok with gun restrictions. The evidence is just too much that gun bans fail for people to buy into it. I think a lot of people are asking about mental health awarness and what we can do to more secure our schools from crazy people

I would hope we can stay focused on the latter issue. I for one don't advocate any gun bans or heightened restrictions because we have learned from the AWB that it is very difficult to craft any that are workable and enhance public safety. I do think the mental health reforms are critical, however.

I would also support eliminating the gun show loophole and other means through which people are able to buy guns at retail without a background check. Not sure where I fall on the question of private sales - in general I don't like the idea of burdening private citizens with unneeded bureaucracy, but on the other hand private transfers of car ownership are regulated this way, so there's a model for it (and yes, I know the right to bear arms is a constitutionally-protected right and there is no accompanying "right" to own a car). On balance I don't feel that strongly either way and thus would probably rather such a law were not passed, because when in doubt, I'd rather have fewer laws than more.

 

[Munky]

Lol the facts are the timing, positioning, distance and the police evidence.

...of which you know nothing more than what you heard from the media.

If you knew the mall in question you would appreciate how absurd it is to claim meli caused the shooter to kill himself.

But no you fruits desperately need a CCW to save the day.

If you had bothered to step outside your hippie commune / college campus, you'd have realized that armed civilians have stopped more crimes than you will ever know, because an armed target does not give the criminal the advantage, and therefore the crime does not occur. Naturally, the puppets on the idiot tube never report on it, so it would be off the radar for you dimwit libotards.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

...of which you know nothing more than what you heard from the media.


If you had bothered to step outside your hippie commune / college campus, you'd have realized that armed civilians have stopped more crimes than you will ever know, because an armed target does not give the criminal the advantage, and therefore no crime takes place. Naturally, the puppets on the idiot tube never report on it, so it would be off the radar for you dimwit libotards.

Maybe if you'd calm down on the firebreathing rhetoric and personal insults, your post might be worth reading. Instead it's just noise. Admittedly the same could be said of some of the post you were quoting, however.

 

[Phokus]

Just a reminder that Spidey should NOT have the right to bear arms

600 bucks to curb stomp a liberal? SO worth it. - Spidey07

 

[jackstar7]

Maybe if you'd calm down on the firebreathing rhetoric and personal insults, your post might be worth reading. Instead it's just noise. Admittedly the same could be said of some of the post you were quoting, however.

Hey now, why would a gun-owner need to posture as an internet tough guy? He's just telling it how it feels in his gut.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Hey now, why would a gun-owner need to posture as an internet tough guy? He's just telling it how it feels in his gut.

Indeed.

Memo to the Internet: if you feel the need to use words like "Rethuglicant," "Dimocrat," or "dimwit libotards" to make your point, you are doing it wrong and the only point you're making is one about your own intellect or lack thereof. Maybe we need a "you must have THIS many IQ points to post" here bar, like the one at Space Mountain.

 

[fskimospy]

Indeed.

I find it more troubling that such an angry, emotionally unstable person is hoarding so many guns and anxiously awaiting the start of the "race war." Fortunately he is in the sticks of Kentucky or Tennessee if memory serves.

I have to say that he is by far the most disturbing poster on here. Speaking of mental health, he sounds like he could use some help.

I've always had trouble understanding the second amendment fetishism I see in America. We seem to so readily toss away other protections in the name of safety, (I'm looking at you, 4th amendment) but so many seem completely unwilling to allow even modest restrictions on weapons, despite there being in my opinion far more evidence of the latter's threat to safety.

I don't want to ban guns, but the blanket opposition to any change is maddening.