Connecticut School shooting!

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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Why would you use keys? Combo or no-go.

Even a thumb print just means they cut off your thumb and get in.

While were blaming the dead mother, yes, you're blaming the dead mother.

Kid grabs her self defense weapon from where she slept while sleeping (remember, a locked up weapon is a useless weapon. If you're going to have a weapon for self defense it should be close by and ready to use) and demanded she open the safe?

But that's not possible right? Because doing that and stealing the weapons is ILLEGAL!
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
While were blaming the dead mother, yes, you're blaming the dead mother.

Kid grabs her self defense weapon from where she slept while sleeping (remember, a locked up weapon is a useless weapon. If you're going to have a weapon for self defense it should be close by and ready to use) and demanded she open the safe?

But that's not possible right? Because doing that and stealing the weapons is ILLEGAL!

Locking weapons up when kids are around - let alone unstable ones - should be required. If we find out the mother knew the kid was unstable and she were still alive, I'd be in favor of charging her as an accomplice.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
So guns and people. Your analysis is quite deep.

Truth be told, you'll piss off more people than you'd like arguing this or that about guns. That in itself should make any moderate consider whether guns is the correct approach.

Yes its a very sensitive and explosive subject. Thats why it takes many tragedies to motivate people to find the courage to confront the issue. The issue is guns.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
I'm in favor of the status quo.

Some A-rated NRA member beg to differ.

Quote:

Democratic Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia, an "A"-rated member of the NRA, told reporters at the state Capitol Monday that "the status quo is not acceptable anymore" and called for restrictions on assault weapons, according to reports.
West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin, another "A"-rated member of the NRA, on Monday questioned the availability of assault weapons, saying on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," "I don't know anyone in the sporting or hunting arena that goes out with an assault rifle. I don't know anybody that needs 30 rounds in a clip to go hunting. I mean, these are things that need to be talked about."

----

Unfortunately those type of people with some conscious are the rare minority just by looking at the gun nutz's reply in this forum.

Again, I am not advocating a complete gun bans, but enough is enough. There has been enough tragedy and not just this one in CT but so many others where high powered assault weapon with high ammo capacity were used. If you gun enthusiasts have just a little conscious and feel something for those young kids that were shot to pieces by your beloved toys, you'd start to come to the table and discuss constructive ways to reduce the chance for those high powered weapons to fall into the wrong hand.
 

dmens

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2005
2,274
959
136
Some A-rated NRA member beg to differ.

Yes, the NRA, the organization of fudds, sellouts and statists. Apparently they don't teach you that in Taiwan, or wherever you're from.

Also LOL @ pointing to a politician as a symbol of conscience (learn to spell already), as opposed to a scheming narcissist who would say anything to get re-elected.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Yes, the NRA, the organization of fudds, sellouts and statists. Apparently they don't teach you that in Taiwan, or wherever you're from.

Also LOL @ pointing to a politician as a symbol of conscience (learn to spell already), as opposed to a scheming narcissist who would say anything to get re-elected.

This. We'll see how these people vote in the end...
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
30,086
146
The laws were just fine. Again, laws don't stop people who do not intend on following them (last time I checked, murdering your mom so you can steal her guns is pretty much illegal anywhere on Earth). It is the enforcement that was lacking. Given the lack of enforcement of current laws, this does not bode well for a plan that calls for massive increases in enforcement effort.

well, it's painfully obvious that the laws very much are lacking. How do you attribute this to a problem of enforcement?
you have made no suggestion as to how this has anything to with enforcement.

How do the current laws prevent the guns from getting into the hands of this individual, specifically?

obviously they do not.

how should they have been enforced better, to keep them out of this kid's hands? Who should have enforced them, and ensured that the person obtaining them (the mother) did not also have mentally unstable sociopathic children at home? That is enforcement. Who is going to enforce that? How will it happen?

explain.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Some A-rated NRA member beg to differ.

Quote:

Democratic Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia, an "A"-rated member of the NRA, told reporters at the state Capitol Monday that "the status quo is not acceptable anymore" and called for restrictions on assault weapons, according to reports.
West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin, another "A"-rated member of the NRA, on Monday questioned the availability of assault weapons, saying on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," "I don't know anyone in the sporting or hunting arena that goes out with an assault rifle. I don't know anybody that needs 30 rounds in a clip to go hunting. I mean, these are things that need to be talked about."

----

Unfortunately those type of people with some conscious are the rare minority just by looking at the gun nutz's reply in this forum.

Again, I am not advocating a complete gun bans, but enough is enough. There has been enough tragedy and not just this one in CT but so many others where high powered assault weapon with high ammo capacity were used. If you gun enthusiasts have just a little conscious and feel something for those young kids that were shot to pieces by your beloved toys, you'd start to come to the table and discuss constructive ways to reduce the chance for those high powered weapons to fall into the wrong hand.

DEMOCRAT!

I'd love for you to list shootings where a high powered rifle was used. ANY rifle outside of a 22LR is "high powered", it's a fucking RIFLE!

Here's a quick hint, the 223 is about the lowest of rifle calibers.

I don't have to come to the fucking table to appease you, I oppose you and your crazy ideas.

Most all firearms homicides are by handguns. A rifle is rarely used, just so happens it was in this case. The hand guns would have been plenty fine (*cough Giffords*).
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
well, it's painfully obvious that the laws very much are lacking. How do you attribute this to a problem of enforcement?
you have made no suggestion as to how this has anything to with enforcement.

How do the current laws prevent the guns from getting into the hands of this individual, specifically?

obviously they do not.

how should they have been enforced better, to keep them out of this kid's hands? Who should have enforced them, and ensured that the person obtaining them (the mother) did not also have mentally unstable sociopathic children at home? That is enforcement. Who is going to enforce that? How will it happen?

explain.

I know!

Let's make murdering your mother and stealing her weapons illegal!

There really should be a law for that.
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
not so much on the gun topic but the more I think of this, the more I am truly upset that all these people that commit these atrocities get the "luxury" of killing themselves before facing judgment, just seeing all the news stories gets me going...what a fucking shitty thing to have happen
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
Status Quo is GUN FREE ZONES. Liberals got their gun control by creating gun free zones.

Lets see how well gun free zones work:

Sandy Hook Elementary School - GUN FREE ZONE
Oikos University shooting - GUN FREE ZONE
Aurora shooting - GUN FREE ZONE
Fort Hood Shooting - GUN FREE ZONE
Columbine High School massacre - GUN FREE ZONE

“With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.” http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund#
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
How does locking the guns up help when you are dead and your son can find the keys?

Or you're dead and he has limitless time alone in your house to break into the gun cabinet?

Accept it: You can do absolutely nothing to stop events like this. Nothing.

He shot her in the face repeatedly - obviously he had access to the guns prior to doing so. Moreover, she apparently took him shooting and taught him how. Again, if he was a placid and apparently well-adjusted kid, fine, but if he was unstable and behaved in an aggressive and violent way, her poor judgment just killed 20 innocent kids.

I'm not sure why you are so dead-set against anyone learning from this incident, and any reforms to prevent similar events from occurring in the future. As I have said in this thread and elsewhere, there are regularly violent crimes in this country which could be prevented through reforms to our mental health laws, only some of which involve mass killings. Even if we're limiting it to mass killings, James Holmes and Jared Loughner were both known to be mentally unstable and disposed to violence, and if they'd been committed it would have saved dozens of lives. I find it just bizarre and frankly shameful that you're so insistent on nothing positive coming out of this incident.
 
Last edited:
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
Status Quo is GUN FREE ZONES. Liberals got their gun control by creating gun free zones.

Lets see how well gun free zones work:

Sandy Hook Elementary School - GUN FREE ZONE
Oikos University shooting - GUN FREE ZONE
Aurora shooting - GUN FREE ZONE
Fort Hood Shooting - GUN FREE ZONE
Columbine High School massacre - GUN FREE ZONE

“With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.” http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund#

This quote is meaningless because liberalized concealed carry is a relatively new phenomenon. Moreover, I believe it's false, if only because of the shooting at Accent Signage here in Minneapolis in September, in a business which was not a gun-free zone. Any number of other catastrophic workplace shootings have occurred in non-gun free zones. Moroever, the public-vs.-private area distinction is deliberately inserted to suggest a nonexistent "trend" - in fact, most public areas where large numbers of people gather are gun free zones. I would be very wary of trusting anything in an article so haphazardly researched.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
According to the CDC, firearms-related homicides numbered 11,101 in 2011. Of those, about 4% involved rifles of any kind, with 2% or less being semi-automatic "assault" rifles.

Following Australia's lead in banning the ownership of such rifles isn't going to reduce firearms-related homicides by any meaningful number. In 2011, mass shootings accounted for 0.16% of all firearms-related homicides.

In 2004, after studying 10 years of the effects of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, the Department Of Justice had this to say:

Should it be renewed, the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement. Assault weapons were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban.

When people say an "assault weapons" ban is a good place to start, I have to wonder what drove them to that conclusion? It wasn't the data, which shows such legislation is entirely a feel-good measure that sweeps 98% of gun crime under the rug.

Nor was it bipartisan support. Polls from Pew, Gallup, and other organizations after the shootings in Aurora, CO and Newtown, CT show the public is split within the margin of error for/against more gun control.

On the other hand, I think there would be widespread support on both sides of the aisle for reforms addressing mental health and our culture of violence.

Couple that with the fact that any major gun control bill will have long-odds overcoming a 33-seat GOP majority in the House of Representatives, and I don't see why people insist on starting with a nonstarter.

If more firearms legislation (ineffective or otherwise) is really your goal, your best near-term option would be an Executive Order from President Obama. Barring that, it would require working towards a Democrat-controlled Senate and House in 2014, giving us the same political environment that Clinton had when he signed the Brady Bill and Federal Assault Weapons Ban during his first term.
 
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