Conservatism grows, negatively correlates with, well... everything

Oct 16, 1999
10,490
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America is an increasingly conservative nation, by ideology and by political affiliation, according to polling results from the Gallup Organization. While conservatives have long outnumbered liberals and moderates across the U.S., the study sheds new light on state-by-state patterns. The map below shows the pattern for the 50 states and the District of Columbia.



Source: Map via Gallup.

Mississippi is the first state with more than 50% conservative identification, with Idaho, Alabama, Wyoming, and Utah approaching that level, and Arkansas, South Carolina, North Dakota, Louisiana, and South Dakota (the rest of the top-ten conservative states) 45% or higher. Conservatives outnumber liberals in even the most liberal-leaning states (excluding the District of Columbia): Vermont, (30.7% conservative to 30.5% liberal), Rhode Island (29.9% to 29.3%), and Massachusetts (29.9% to 28.0%).

Political commentators have long pointed to underlying social and economic sorting that underpins this growing conservative/ liberal divide. But what factors account for the growing conservatism of Americans and American states?

With the help of my colleague Charlotta Mellander, I decided to take a look. We ran a simple correlation analysis on the Gallup poll numbers, comparing conservative identification to a variety of key economic, demographic, and cultural factors by state. As always, our analysis only points to associations between variables; we do not make any claims about causation and note that other factors that we have not looked at might come into play. Still, a number of intriguing findings cropped up.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/03/the-conservative-states-of-america/71827/

You'll have to click the link to get to the meat. There are too many graphs to add to quote the whole thing. I'm not posting this to bash conservatives, but these trends are clear and worth looking at.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
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we do not make any claims about causation and note that other factors that we have not looked at might come into play. Still, a number of intriguing findings cropped up.

Translation:

Here's our stupid idea, and here's what we wanted it to show. Can't make any intellectual argument for any of our conclusions but....... NOT SAYING....just saying though...
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,004
18,352
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Way to spin it Pesh, I read that as: Correlation != Causation which is true. Your quote also shows that they understand that not ALL factors were included or even considered.

Translation: here's some interesting correlations, that we can neither 100% confirm or deny.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
Way to spin it Pesh, I read that as: Correlation != Causation which is true. Your quote also shows that they understand that not ALL factors were included or even considered.

Translation: here's some interesting correlations, that we can neither 100% confirm or deny.

So, if not to push a hackish political agenda, what is the point of this "study", with self-admission that the actual conclusions have almost nothing to support the implied conclusion? I guarantee that I could find a similar data set to make it look like the more liberal a state is, the more likely you are to be murdered by an agnostic... but what the fuck does that mean?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,004
18,352
146
So, if not to push a hackish political agenda, what is the point of this "study", with self-admission that the actual conclusions have almost nothing to support the implied conclusion? I guarantee that I could find a similar data set to make it look like the more liberal a state is, the more likely you are to be murdered by an agnostic... but what the fuck does that mean?

Find that data, lol.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
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So, if not to push a hackish political agenda, what is the point of this "study", with self-admission that the actual conclusions have almost nothing to support the implied conclusion? I guarantee that I could find a similar data set to make it look like the more liberal a state is, the more likely you are to be murdered by an agnostic... but what the fuck does that mean?

There is no implied conclusion. They flat out state they aren't claiming causation. You don't have to prove causation to have valid correlation. The "what the fuck does that mean" is that the two variables are related to each other.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
There is no implied conclusion. They flat out state they aren't claiming causation. You don't have to prove causation to have valid correlation.

There was a study that showed that the higher sales of ice cream are, the more murders occur. Without explaining that both are related to a third variable, namely weather, would you have a valid correlation?

Almost any two variables can be shown to have some sort of correlation if you try hard enough.

Fact is, this study is presented as to get the reader to infer the conclusion that poor, dumb, working class people are conservative, and smart, rich, intellectuals are liberals. Don't pretend that isn't the case.

The "what the fuck does that mean" is that the two variables are related to each other.

Again, ice cream correlates with murder rates. The two may correlate, but to say they are related in this way is idiotic.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,597
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  • The country is losing its white majority.
  • Conservatism is 'growing'.
Thus:

  • Conservatism is more diverse today than it was yesterday.

Yes kiddies, it IS fun to draw conclusions.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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As ice cream sales increase, the rate of drowning deaths increases sharply.
Therefore, ice cream causes drowning.

The Party of Intellectualism never fails to please.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,294
28,151
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http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/03/the-conservative-states-of-america/71827/

You'll have to click the link to get to the meat. There are too many graphs to add to quote the whole thing. I'm not posting this to bash conservatives, but these trends are clear and worth looking at.

I can make one link, Mississippi the first state to go 50% conservative also has this legacy...

http://eideard.wordpress.com/2011/0...i-republicans-would-ban-interracial-marriage/
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,838
49,548
136
Wow, this must have really touched a nerve.

The article itself says 'correlation doesn't imply causation', which is then followed by a bunch of posters attempting to make specious arguments about correlation implying causation, then proclaiming victory over The Evil Study.

Good work guys.

If the fact that worsening economic conditions is significantly correlated with a shift in political ideology is not interesting to you, that's fine. It's interesting to me though and probably to a lot of social scientists. Continue to freak out that someone might be being mean to conservatism though.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
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Wow, these authors are SUPER sneaky then, finding a way to falsely imply that correlation = causation even while explicitly stating the contrary!
They could have just as easily graphed ice cream sales with drownings and explicitly stated correlation doesn't imply causation...don't be an idiot.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
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To the topic, one has to wonder if increased conservatism is a result of everything else or because of everything else.

Seeing the trend of big gov't, I'd tend to think the former. However, I have no evidence to back that up.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,838
49,548
136
They could have just as easily graphed ice cream sales with drownings and explicitly stated correlation doesn't imply causation...don't be an idiot.

Stop throwing a tempter tantrum. Economic difficulties leading to shifts in politics have a long history, hence a plausible causal mechanism, a vital component of any reasonable statistical analysis. I presume you do not deny this.

Ice cream does not have a long history of drowning people, thus it lacks a plausible causal mechanism, a vital component of any reasonable statistical analysis. I presume you do not deny this.

You were of course attempting to falsely relate the two types of variables, which is a bit ironic considering what you were accusing the article of.

Exploring the correlation between current political ideological shifts and economic effects is an interesting and valid topic for discussion, and flailing attempts to try and make the article state the exact opposite of what it did in order to protect the Good Name of Conservatism are a waste of everyone's time.
 

Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
3,189
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I'll just throw out this idea.

It's unsurprising to me that America is growing more conservative, especially over the past few years. I believe this has less to do with anything political and more to do with the fact that the past years have been economically horrendous. It's put people in a state of fear, and that leads to them being more likely to hold true to their traditional beliefs. It's a way of gaining control over an uncontrollable world.

And that's my two cents, which I'm sure will be run over by a train shortly.

As for the whole correlation causation argument, there are simply an infinite number of factors that may explain this trend. A lot of these correlations are particularly strong, which is interesting. I see nothing particularly misleading or hacking in trying to understand what has led to shifts in political ideologies.
 
Last edited:
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
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There was a study that showed that the higher sales of ice cream are, the more murders occur. Without explaining that both are related to a third variable, namely weather, would you have a valid correlation?

Almost any two variables can be shown to have some sort of correlation if you try hard enough.

Fact is, this study is presented as to get the reader to infer the conclusion that poor, dumb, working class people are conservative, and smart, rich, intellectuals are liberals. Don't pretend that isn't the case.



Again, ice cream correlates with murder rates. The two may correlate, but to say they are related in this way is idiotic.

There are consistent correlations across multiple related variables in this article. That in and of itself indicates an almost certainty of more than just a coincidental relationship.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,616
3,471
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smart, rich, intellectuals are liberals. Don't pretend that isn't the case.

You appear to be implying that this isn't the case. The more intelligent someone is, the more likely they are to go to college. Evil college professors then use their wiles to convert unsuspecting students to their America-hating, communist belief system. These smart, intellectual liberals then graduate at which point they become rich.

And they hate ice cream.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
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I agree with rightwingers on this thread, Correlation != Causation.
Being conservative does not cause those states to lag behind. Having a feeble minded population is what causes them to both be conservative and lag behind, creating this correlation.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
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Wow, these authors are SUPER sneaky then, finding a way to falsely imply that correlation = causation even while explicitly stating the contrary!


Conservatism, at least at the state level, appears to be growing stronger. Ironically, this trend is most pronounced in America's least well-off, least educated, most blue collar, most economically hard-hit states. Conservatism, more and more, is the ideology of the economically left behind. The current economic crisis only appears to have deepened conservatism's hold on America's states. This trend stands in sharp contrast to the Great Depression, when America embraced FDR and the New Deal.

Liberalism, which is stronger in richer, better-educated, more-diverse, and, especially, more prosperous places, is shrinking across the board and has fallen behind conservatism even in its biggest strongholds. This obviously poses big challenges for liberals, the Obama administration, and the Democratic Party moving forward.

But the much bigger, long-term danger is economic rather than political. This ideological state of affairs advantages the policy preferences of poorer, less innovative states over wealthier, more innovative, and productive ones. American politics is increasingly disconnected from its economic engine. And this deepening political divide has become perhaps the biggest bottleneck on the road to long-run prosperity.

Read that and tell me they aren't implying conclusions. What they say is the equivalent of putting "we could be wrong" before a 2-page conclusion that buries the statement. It's a common strategy to get an unsubstantiated point across while doing the minimum necessary to discretely cover your ass.
 
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