Considering a used Porsche Purchase

[OSULugan]

I've been looking at trading in my 2004 A4 and buying a late model 911.

I thought I'd poll AT Garage posters to get some opinions and/or facts on a few questions I had.

1) I was originally interested in picking up an AWD variant, after loving the quattro of my A4 over the RWD of the Mustang I had before it. Granted, I was driving the Mustang in upstate NY winters, but I recently moved to the Reno, NV area, and while we don't appear to get the same amounts of snow and rain, to go over the mountain in winter-time, I was thinking the AWD might be nice. With the rear-engine mounting in a 911, is RWD such a big liability for getting started up hills in inclimate weather?

2) I've grown accustomed to the increased repair costs associated with a german automobile. Should I expect similar or more pricey parts for a 911?

3) I've not heard of a reputation for anything particularly poor on 911s or Porches in general. Is there something specific (costly or known for a high failure rate) to look out for?

4) 911s didn't get dual-clutches until the 2009 timeframe. While I'd prefer a MT (I currently drive a 6-speed), how bad are Porsche automatics from the 2001-2008 era? Do they gear search a lot, provide a decent alternative, or should I just decide to only go with the stick?

I'd also be open to suggestions for alternatives. However I need at least a 2+2 seat arrangement for the option to be able to drive my 10 year old daughter to school/activities without having to use my wife's car.

 

[boomhower]

Price range?

 

[OSULugan]

Comfort zone is up to about 40k.

 

[NutBucket]

I'm not sure your 10 year old would enjoy riding in the rear "seats". They are completely useless.

 

[RichieZ]

the automatic transmission in the 996 and 997.1 911's is just your regular old run of the mill tiptronic, its not very good - go MT

Also if you want the 2+2 b/c you need the storage space, well the cayman will actually be more practical. The back seats in the 911 are useless, 10 y/o probably won't be very comfortable.

 

[Throckmorton]

BUY THE MANUAL. Why even get a Porsche if it's auto??

You don't need AWD. RWD handles better and is therefore more fun.

 

[clumsyalex]

i thought the pdk was pretty amazing from what i've heard...correct me if im wrong though please

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Interestingly Reno is the home of Porsche USA - actually I used to work for the US Attorney's office in the Porsche building one summer in law school.

Reno itself doesn't get a ton of snow (I don't think), but in order to get to and from SF (which I consider an important fringe benefit of living in Reno), you will want to be driving something other than a RWD Porsche. I drive a RWD car all year in Minneapolis, but we don't have much in the way of hills and we do have major snow removal.

As others have said, the rear seats in a 911 are essentially worthless, even for small kids. There is no way you will be able to carry a 10-year-old back there unless she is sitting behind someone very short and stops growing at age 10. I'd start buying her cigarettes and hope for stunted growth!

The 1999-2004 996 generation cars (other than the Turbo and GT3 iterations) are prone to rear main seal leaks and are, IMO, generally not a great pick. This is much of the reason (the other reasons being qualms about the interior and the exterior design) why the 996's precursor (the 993) and successor (the 997) sell for much more than the 996s. The 997s are mostly above your price range, I think, though I am not really current on their pricing.

I would expect a 997 to be generally reliable, but yes, parts will be relatively expensive.

Based on your needs I would suggest an S4, S5 or 335xi over any 911. The 335xi can be easily be set up to run 400 BHP or close with aftermarket software, and even in stock form seems to put out 330+ BHP.

 

[boomhower]

i thought the pdk was pretty amazing from what i've heard...correct me if im wrong though please

It is, I think the range he is looking at us pre-PDK and in the tiptronic time frame c

 

[OSULugan]

Well, so for instance I was looking at this one:

http://inventory.sporthausmotors.com/web/used/Porsche-911-/-997-2005-Reno/4383737/

It's a little more than I'd like to spend, but I figured I'd be able to get the price down enough to be comfortable.

It looks like the big issue(s) would still be
1) small rear-seats, which I'm not too worried about (again, it's more for 5 minute drive to drop-off at school/activity, any more than that, we'd use the wife's car) and
2) driving over the mountain with RWD. My bigger concern is that I live up a hill, and being my first winter out here, I don't know how good the snow removal is. I have nightmares of trying to get the Mustang up the hill I lived on back in NY, so I think I'm just a bit more touchy on the RWD vs. AWD subject.

Since this won't be the main car for road-trips, I'm not too concerned about being able to go over the mountain or fitting people in the back for long drives. It's a 997, so I get out of the 996 generation problem identified above.

They do have a '08 S4 that I might take a look at for a bit cheaper. But, as much as I love my A4 at times, I'm not sure I want to stay in a sedan. An earlier thread got me checking out some 1-series BMWs online, but the last time I test drove a 330xi (2004 model year?), my big wide feet were a problem with their pedal lay-out when shifting.

Also, re: PDF, the 2009+ 911s are the ones that have the dual-clutch, and are still out of my price range. Anything much newer than a 2005 will push my price range too high, I think.

 

[Elganja]

another forums member, halik, pointed me to this Rennlist... may be worth your time to monitor it for a few weeks:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/marketplace/cars/search/

 

[halik]

Back seat on my 911 is pretty much useless; you will not be happy with the car in that regard. They're really 2 seaters.

They do have a weak spot in the so-called intermediate shaft, 99-09 cars have a set up that relies on a bearing to distribute the timing from crank to the cams and it's prone to failure. Luckily there's an aftermarket fix available for ~$600 + labor for pre-06 cars that adds great deal of reliability. The failure rate of 06-09 cars are minimal (latest bearing design).

Also maintenance isn't cheap, especially at he dealer.

Interior on the pre-05 cars is a function of the options the car came with; my 4s has full leather, body matched console, stitched airbag, wood inlays etc etc. The base cars are pretty meh-looking though.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Agree on back seats being just about useless.

Also, personally, I would get RWD for both the driving feel and simplicity. If you 'need' awd for snow/ice purposes to get through a mountain pass you really shouldn't be taking your 911 up there.

You already drive a german car so you probably know this, but you should find a GOOD porsche shop before you buy the car. Have them do a PPO on whichever one you're looking at.



Also, manual or turbo.

 

[blipblop]

Also when you do the PPI, make sure that the shop is able to pull the DME so you can get the rev ranges the engine has seen and if there are any mechanical over revs.

Ranges 1-3 is ok, less the better.. ranges 4-6 is a mechanical overrev (missed downshift or something)

 

[OSULugan]

Awesome info. And thanks for the link Elganja.

I've been a lurker on this forum for a few months now, and really appreciate the tips.

 

[Imported]

i thought the pdk was pretty amazing from what i've heard...correct me if im wrong though please

It is, from personal experience. Why Audi didn't put something similar in the R8 until only recently boggles me.

 

[A5]

Interestingly Reno is the home of Porsche USA - actually I used to work for the US Attorney's office in the Porsche building one summer in law school.

The rest of the post is good, but Porsche USA HQ is actually in Atlanta, not Reno.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

The rest of the post is good, but Porsche USA HQ is actually in Atlanta, not Reno.

Huh - they must have moved - looks like the building was renamed in 2005, after their departure. http://djcoregon.com/news/2005/02/07/portland-owners-rename-reno-building-museum-tower/

I remember eyeing all the cool limited production stuff they had in the parking garage (this was in 1997), including wildly decked out 993 Turbo S's with all the insanely expensive custom leather appointments (they literally had little hand-stitched leather boots on the climate control adjustment levers), etc.

 

[MrWizzard]

Also, manual or turbo.

Wait what?

Late models did have both of those....it's not one or the other. Typo?

OP

1. No if you get the traction control even if you have RWD it is very good. Try to put a Porsche into a spin going around in a circle and it's very hard to do with it on.

2. More expensive. Clutch changes can be 8k. That was for a manual. If you are worried about the cost ask the dealer what certain repairs cost. Just so you have a idea what you would be looking at. If you are ok with all the quotes then you will be ok.

3. Depends on what model you are getting turbo vs. non-turbo.

4. Do not get an auto PLEASE. I'm talking about the old autos not the PDK, PDK is very good but I still like the feeling of manual more.

 

[A5]

Huh - they must have moved - looks like the building was renamed in 2005, after their departure. http://djcoregon.com/news/2005/02/07/portland-owners-rename-reno-building-museum-tower/

I remember eyeing all the cool limited production stuff they had in the parking garage (this was in 1997), including wildly decked out 993 Turbo S's with all the insanely expensive custom leather appointments (they literally had little hand-stitched leather boots on the climate control adjustment levers), etc.

Fair enough - it looks like they moved their West Coast stuff to Ontario, CA too. I haven't seen any cool stuff at the HQ here (it's like 5 minutes from my house), but I also haven't spent that much time looking

 

[MagickMan]

Back seat on my 911 is pretty much useless; you will not be happy with the car in that regard. They're really 2 seaters.

They do have a weak spot in the so-called intermediate shaft, 99-09 cars have a set up that relies on a bearing to distribute the timing from crank to the cams and it's prone to failure. Luckily there's an aftermarket fix available for ~$600 + labor for pre-06 cars that adds great deal of reliability. The failure rate of 06-09 cars are minimal (latest bearing design).

Also maintenance isn't cheap, especially at he dealer.

This. My back seat is for packages, not people. Except my little nephew, he fits back there. An adult? Not unless it's Peter Dinklage.

If I were looking for a Porsche, in the $40k range, I'd be all over a Cayman. Like this: http://cargur.us/dxct

IMO, to get to 40k in a 911 you're going to need to make sacrifices, big ones. Either in mileage or age, and neither is very kind to that platform. Compared to the Cayman; repairs are more, service is more, and performance is less (since you have to go so far back).

Get a Cayman (or Cockster) with as few miles as possible, then keep a tight service regemine. Don't use it as a weekend-only driver, drive it often and don't baby it. Mind those things and it'll serve you well for a long time.

 

[halik]

This. My back seat is for packages, not people. Except my little nephew, he fits back there. An adult? Not unless it's Peter Dinklage.

If I were looking for a Porsche, in the $40k range, I'd be all over a Cayman. Like this: http://cargur.us/dxct

IMO, to get to 40k in a 911 you're going to need to make sacrifices, big ones. Either in mileage or age, and neither is very kind to that platform. Compared to the Cayman; repairs are more, service is more, and performance is less (since you have to go so far back).

Get a Cayman (or Cockster) with as few miles as possible, then keep a tight service regemine. Don't use it as a weekend-only driver, drive it often and don't baby it. Mind those things and it'll serve you well for a long time.

You can get a nicely optioned 50K mile 996 Turbo for mid $40Ks; no contest between a cayman, 997 or a 991.

I ended up taking the back seats out entirely; at least it's somewhat useful as cargo room.

 

[Throckmorton]

Are the back seats really useless? I'm 5'6" and I fit fine in the back seat of a 240sx and a 3rd gen Camaro, both cars that people say have useless seats. If an average height woman fits, that seems pretty useful to me.

 

[Imported]

This. My back seat is for packages, not people. Except my little nephew, he fits back there. An adult? Not unless it's Peter Dinklage.

If I were looking for a Porsche, in the $40k range, I'd be all over a Cayman. Like this: http://cargur.us/dxct

IMO, to get to 40k in a 911 you're going to need to make sacrifices, big ones. Either in mileage or age, and neither is very kind to that platform. Compared to the Cayman; repairs are more, service is more, and performance is less (since you have to go so far back).

Get a Cayman (or Cockster) with as few miles as possible, then keep a tight service regemine. Don't use it as a weekend-only driver, drive it often and don't baby it. Mind those things and it'll serve you well for a long time.

This may be my route in a few years. Was planning on buying something this year but priorities changed. Shortlist includes the Cayman, 370Z, BRZ and 135i.

 

[iamwiz82]

Not a big seat