Considering building home theater

[EliteRetard]

I think I may be buying a house in 4-6months, I always wanted a dedicated home theater/computer room...so I figure maybe I can work in the cost when/if I buy.

I know usually you guys want me to give you the price, and then you tell me what to get...but in this case I dont really know what it would cost, and my budget is sorta flexible to make sure I get something thatll work for me. Anyway...Im just making a guess on the hardware part, but say 2K for the projector/screen 1K for a TV 1K sound 1K computer/hardware? Some seats for what 250$ each? Thats like 7,500$ and maybe double that to build everything and put it together in a proper room? Does 15,000$ sound right for a good value home theater/computer room?

Anyone can go out and buy the best of the best, Im the kind of guy that likes value. I go for the product that has 75% of the performance at half the cost (or less). I dont know if ill have a suitable room already or if Ill need to renovate, I dont think Ill be having many people over...most of the time itll just be 2-4 and Id guess max 10 (and they dont have to be all that comfortable, as long as I am). I dont mind doing some work myself, if its simple, like say hanging sound curtains on the walls or something. If I need to actually build or change walls and stuff...maybe somebody could chime in here.

As for the video portion I think a projector provides the biggest screen bang for the buck. But I think Id want to use the projector just for movies or larger gaming sessions and have a regular TV on a swing arm or someting that I can use just for regular TV sessions or gaming by myself because they dont require warm up time or use really expensive short lived bulbs. Maybe Id get a 30" monitor and use that instead of a TV and use it for when Im just doing computer work too.

Id need to figure out a computer system and such for all this, how it would hook up and run everything and how would you interface with it? A really really long USB cord? I remember a home theater article on here a while back, the computer system he got all setup looked like it worked well and had a nice display for picking movies and stuff. I dont even know how to rip a DVD or Blu-Ray.

As far as sound system, I currently have a logitech Z5500 that sounds OK to me. For a larger room though I think Id want a bit larger speakers and it is weak in the highs without a tweeter. Id like to have a crossover to keep the highs on the tweeters and the base on the sub. Recently Ive seen dual sub setups...that sounds cool...how does that work? I like to feel my sound, and having two subs would allow me to get a more balanced feel and I wouldnt have to turn it up as loud. Basically Im not an audiophile so I dont think I need 1000$ speakers. A couple 150$ tower speakers or something might be good (but Im askin you guys cause I dont know).

And thats what I got so far...any thoughts or input? Thanks in advance.

 

[newnameman]

If you're spending $15000, I would highly recommend you consider spenind more than $150 per speaker. :Q

 

[EliteRetard]

See, I dont know. I bought my Z5500 (5.1) for 200$ new, so I figured spending five times as much should get me over twice the performance no? Sounding twice as good sounds good to me. I would think just increasing the size and power of the mids and adding a tweeter wouldnt cost that much and would help allot. Though maybe Id want a 7.1 or like I said before, it would be cool to have two subs. I was figuring most of the cost would come from getting a proper room built or setup and all the expensive electronics. I literally have no idea what I even need to look at for a list of stuff and parts. I was just totally throwing out a number.

Im just hoping some "ubAr n3rd" home theater wizard can come in and tell me how it is (hey that was a compliment). What he would get if he wanted to setup such a system for himself and get the most bang for the buck (or at least around what it might cost to get allot of bang for the buck).

 

[s44]

LOLOLOLOL

Audio $ = *at least* video $
In a $15K room I'd spend $10K on audio/audio installation.

Oh yeah, HTPCs are crap. Get a PS3 (or standalone Blu-Ray) and Tivo.

 

[SearchMaster]

Well, as I'm sure you know, you can spend as much as you want. In my case, I didn't need a dedicated room, so I put a projector and surround system in my downstairs den (which also serves as the kids' playroom). I spent $700 for the projector, another $200 for the screen (100"), and the sound system (H/K and Polk) was a great deal for a 5.1 and was <$400. We already had the furniture so no cost there

I'm with you on the bargain aspect, but if you spend anywhere near $15K you should have an incredible system. Heck, I'd love to have $2500 to spend on mine, but I'm very happy with my setup that cost half of that.

 

[qbfx]

Hey, for the sound I would recommend looking at this. Check the package deal on the right for $649.88 with free shipping. With this system I think you wouldn't need 7.1. From a value point of view that's a great deal, especially if you couple that with a factory refurbished Marantz SR7001 or SR8001 ($499 and $699). For $1150 or $1350 with the SR8001, this system will play seriously loud and give you some very good sound for music too. I doubt you could get better bang for the buck in this price range. Good luck!

 

[erwos]

So, is your budget $7500 or $15000? Because you list off $7500 of stuff, kinda, and then hand-wave the remaining $7500 as "build costs". There's no friggin' way build costs will equal the equipment, unless there's some sort of thing we're missing here.

Assuming your budget is $7500, I'd go more along the lines of:
1. $1000 projector (isn't there a new 1080p projector that'll hit this price point?)
2. $200 screen
3. $800 receiver (too many choices to list)
4. $200 TiVo HD
5. $800 Sony BDP-CX960 BR-D changer (coming out in August!)
6. $1400 SVS PC-13 Ultra subwoofer
7. $2100 for speakers (others can make better recommendations than me)
8. $1000 for the HTPC

That's exactly $7500, and leaves you the other $7500 for tax, shipping, cables, seats, stands, racks, and whatever else. If you think the BR-D changer is unnecessary, buy a PS3 or some other dedicated player and dump it into the projector. But I can _guarantee_ that you will want at least a thousand bucks of subwoofer alone for a high-end home theater - nothing impresses a crowd like getting smacked in the face by bass.

 

[cheesehead]

1. $1k is not enough for a proper HT projector - the net result will be inferior to a standard LCD TV. $2k will leave you with something capable of similar color depth and contrast ratios. Alternately, a (likely used) CRT projector gives amazing performance for the dollar....but, between the greater need for calibration, potential for burn-in, lack of replacement picture tubes, and huge weight, is quite simply a massive pain in the ass.

2. Only if you're going DIY. A good premade screen is a lot more.

3. Sounds about right, I guess.

4. The Tivo is nifty, but it seems you can get similar results with a $50 card for your HTPC - and without the fees.

5. Save $800 and just use your HTPC.

6. Fugeddaboudit. If you're having your room custom-built (and you are), you may as well just go DIY. This will allow you to hide the sub(s) in your room's decor, and get maximum performance for your dollar.

I'd personally recommend an Audiopulse Axis 12" driver ($635) + a Behringer EP2500 ($300). Audiopulse can achieve distortion and linearity specs better than many servo subwoofers despite their simple design - I would know, seeing as how I own one of their cheaper Epic subwoofers. If you can find one of the more rare Audiopulse Axis 15" subs, all the better.

7. DIY speakers offer tremendous value for money but can be a PITA, though the array of excellent plans available mean that it's an issue of simple woodworking - if you know your way around a router and saw, you'll have no trouble. For pre-made speakers, I'm quite fond of Paradigm - I'm not keen on the low-end Cinema series, but everything else is very nice. Aperion is supposed to offer even better value for money, though I've yet to listen to any of their products.

8. Have fun.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
4. The Tivo is nifty, but it seems you can get similar results with a $50 card for your HTPC - and without the fees.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: qbfx
Hey, for the sound I would recommend looking at this. Check the package deal on the right for $649.88 with free shipping.

This Mirage system is a great deal for a moderate or small room where you won't be playing at reference levels *all the time*, but for a dedicated front-projection HT setup it's just not going to put out enough clean decibels (particularly from the wimpy subwoofer).

A ~10K audio setup would probably look something like this:
3 * JTR Triple 8 HT as front speakers = $3600
2 * JTR Slanted 8 HT as surrounds = $1200
D-Sonic Magnum 2000-5 ICEpower amp = $2775 (ask for second power cord if you like)
Onkyo PR-SC886 pre-pro = $1000
Seaton Sound SubMersive, or multiple DIY subs = $2000

This should give you basically unlimited SPL capabilities in most rooms. Alternately, replace all speakers and the amp with
5 * Seaton Sound Spark active crossover bi-amped speakers = $7000
with Onkyo pre-pro and SubMersive that's $10K exactly

This would give somewhat less maximum power (although more than most consumer-grade alternatives) but probably a bit more refinement -- active crossovers are far superior -- for a more moderately sized room.

 

[BoberFett]

Who said anything about $10K for audio?

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
4. The Tivo is nifty, but it seems you can get similar results with a $50 card for your HTPC - and without the fees.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I suppose there might be some issues if you're using cable or satellite (and hence need the HDMI input), but MythTV is A-OK with me. I'm really more of an audio freak, to be honest - I don't watch much TV.

Originally posted by: s44
This should give you basically unlimited SPL capabilities in most rooms. Alternately, replace all speakers and the amp with
5 * Seaton Sound Spark active crossover bi-amped speakers = $7000
with Onkyo pre-pro and SubMersive that's $10K exactly

Honestly, a standard HT receiver is just fine for general use. Pre/pro setups are for those who as really care about that sort of thing (this fellow obviously doesn't), or who upgrade regularly and save big on being able to retain amplifiers when switching processors. So long as you stick to well-rated receivers from the big names (I've had good experiences with Yamaha, but Onkyo seems to be on top at the moment) you should be very happy.

SPL is severely overrated, and horn-loaded PA coaxials have major issues in relation to nearfield off-axis dispersion, ragged frequency response, and distortion. (Note how Krell, Wilson, Linkwitz, and so many other big names avoid them?) Sure, they're loud...but more really isn't better.

Besides, EliteRetard has stated he's not an audiophile - he's pretty happy with $8 Tang-Bands in Dixie cups. Paradigm Atoms are relatively inexpensive ($250/pr), widely available, and sold from brick-and-mortar stores that allow you to try before you buy. A further option is the Insignia (yes, THAT insignia) NS-B2111, which at $84/pair is dirt cheap and offers a lot for the money - and they can be further improved with a few hours' work, some Bondo and a cubic foot of quilt stuffing.

On the subject of subs - how big is the room? This makes a big difference to the sort of subs you need to achieve adequate bass.

 

[sivart]

I did this for about $6,000 total back in 2006. That was starting with the finished room and buying all new equipment.

If you're room isn't framed / finished, I'd guess $4K just for that do it properly.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
4. The Tivo is nifty, but it seems you can get similar results with a $50 card for your HTPC - and without the fees.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I suppose there might be some issues if you're using cable or satellite (and hence need the HDMI input), but MythTV is A-OK with me. I'm really more of an audio freak, to be honest - I don't watch much TV.

Basically, the problem is that you need CableCard to get almost all of the channels on digital cable. You can't just buy a CableCard tuner and put it on your home-built PC, you've got to buy a specially-certified and enabled PC from some of the usual suspects. HDMI isn't really the issue.

I agree that $10k for audio is completely out of line with what the OP is looking for.

 

[sdifox]

Real problem is we don't even have a desired dimension and layout of the room. Once we have that, we can get closer to what you want to do. Also, how much WAF do you need?

Being able to put up the walls and have the wires done before the finishing is a big plus when it comes to HT.

Since it is a dedicated HT, just go with 1 display. Research a reliable projector, and just put the money you were going to buy the second display with in a bank and buy a lamp or 3 down the line.

Get a 1080p projector, mid level receiver, decent speakers and sub and you are set. IF you have enough space, you could try to build an IB sub, which will be cheaper and outperform anything you can afford.

 

[Onita]

Originally posted by: sivart
I did this for about $6,000 total back in 2006. That was starting with the finished room and buying all new equipment.

If you're room isn't framed / finished, I'd guess $4K just for that do it properly.

Mind listing the components of that room?

OP, are you building or buying a house? Room dimensions mean a LOT, and without them, its really hard to recommend much. Also, its easier to recommend items if you just set your budget (i.e. $10k for the audio/video of the room).

 

[qbfx]

Ok, I think it's time for the OP to kick back in and tell us his precise budget for audio/video, room dimensions and how loud he's gonna go on the sound. The Mirage system I mentioned will suffice even for bigger rooms, if OP doesn't opt for ground shaking SPLs, and costs next to nothing compared to other systems mentioned in the thread. I agree with s44 about the sub though, and I'd recommend upgrading it to something better or even two subs if OP goes that way.

 

[sivart]

Originally posted by: Onita

Originally posted by: sivart
I did this for about $6,000 total back in 2006. That was starting with the finished room and buying all new equipment.

If you're room isn't framed / finished, I'd guess $4K just for that do it properly.

Mind listing the components of that room?

LG BH200 HD DVD / Blu-ray player
Sony PS3
Onkyo TX-SR605
Acoustec Speakers (5.1)
TES-100 with dedicated amp (butt kickers)
Optoma HD72 (couldn't affort 1080p back in 2006)
DTVPal HD Tuner / DVR
100" Elite Fixed Frame Screen
Various furnishings (Lane Couch) and Decor

 

[EliteRetard]

Sorry for the slow reply, and thanks for all the input so far. It sounds like $15K is more than enough, and $10K should be good. Really I was asking for you to give me a budget, but in all the reccomenations Im seeing there seems to be a close price range. Of corse I dont know if this includes labor or if you all think I can build and set this thing up myself. So what the heck, for now lets say 10K and Ill say an extra 5K incase I need professional help or for constuction or whatever.

One of the main questions so far has been how large is the room. I dont know, that was another part of my question. Most of the time Ill have no more than 4 people or so, and maybe seats for 6. I figure if I can have enough room to drag in a few extra chairs and get 10 if neeed thatll be enough. 100-120"+ screen? But how big a room would I need for that, and is there a preferred shape for an entertainment room? If the place Im getting doesnt have the required shape/size room then Ill have one made. So if someone can chime in on this part that can answer the question...and is there a type of wall or material that would change things (they always have curtains in theaters)?

How hard is it to make your own screen, and what advantages are there to curved screens? They also have motorized screens to fit all the different aspect ratios? What would it cost to buy? To make? To have someone else make?

DIY speakers offer tremendous value for money but can be a PITA, though the array of excellent plans available mean that it's an issue of simple woodworking - if you know your way around a router and saw, you'll have no trouble.

Interesting...I do like value, but I dont know squat about audio. I dont know if I could wire everything properly. I really want to make sure I have crossovers for the tweeters and sub so all the sounds are on the proper sized speakers. I do have access to a laser and plywood in 1/2" and 5/8" birch probably up to 24" square (other odd sizes and shapes depending on the scrap available). So I could probably make the boxes.

I'd personally recommend an Audiopulse Axis 12" driver ($635) + a Behringer EP2500 ($300). Audiopulse can achieve distortion and linearity specs better than many servo subwoofers despite their simple design

What is this? A subwoofer and what? Im still wondering abut having two subs, one on each side of the room (I like to feel some music, and things like explsions, without having to have it turned ear bleeding loud...so thats why I figure more bass). Is it worth it, is it easy to do (just get a splitter)? And whats the better setup if Im going to build the room? 5.1 or 7.1? I dont really care if some of the speakers are putting out the same sound...hell I dont think Ive ever figured out how to get my current speakers to have a different sound, and theyre supposed to have all kinds of fancy features. As long as the subs play the base the tweeters play the highs and the mids play the rest and the sound is well balanced around me it should sound good to me. With decent quality speakers anyway...

And Im not a big TV watcher mostly games, shows online, or movies. And when Im just plinkin around with the computer I like to listen to music, most likely not CD quality though. Heck Im getting sick of the price of cable anyway...I might just nix that part. Unless someone knows what or how to get channels free over the air?

Basically, the problem is that you need CableCard to get almost all of the channels on digital cable. You can't just buy a CableCard tuner and put it on your home-built PC, you've got to buy a specially-certified and enabled PC from some of the usual suspects. HDMI isn't really the issue.

I agree that $10k for audio is completely out of line with what the OP is looking for.

Cablecard? And yeah, so far it doesnt sound like theres allot of value in audio at $10K. I dont really care what other people think (Ok a little, as long as they dont go "wow this sucks") I work rather hard for a pretty small ammount so I like to get the most for my money (though this dumpster keyboard is starting to fuzz out on me). Something like this is likely to be a once in a lifetime thing (even if i move again Ill likely try to take all this with me). Of corse its silly to expect this kind of stuff to last fr a lifetime...but Ill try to take care of it and keep it as long as possible.

Being able to put up the walls and have the wires done before the finishing is a big plus when it comes to HT. Since it is a dedicated HT, just go with 1 display. Research a reliable projector, and just put the money you were going to buy the second display with in a bank and buy a lamp or 3 down the line. Get a 1080p projector, mid level receiver, decent speakers and sub and you are set. IF you have enough space, you could try to build an IB sub, which will be cheaper and outperform anything you can afford.

Thing is with this room, Im spending some money on nice parts, Id like to be able to make use of them for my computer and such as well. I use my computer more than I watch movies...so I do need a computer display (instead of a second TV, since I can probably use it for a TV anyway if I wanted, since I think the computer will be running everything). Im still not sure how I could get a computer setup in such a way that I could use its basic display for menial tasks and the projector for all the good stuff while still making it all comfortable.

Whats an IB sub?

if OP doesn't opt for ground shaking SPLs

Whats this? Ground shaking could be fun...sounds expensive.

 

[Rio Rebel]

I started with an unfinished room in the basement, just bare concrete walls. I had it finished with a black suspended ceiling (highly recommended) for about $5000. 6 theater recliners cost me $3300.
Projector was $1500, screen is a DIY, audio about $3000 (Denon 3805 and Paradigm 7.1 setup). So I got in right around $15k, for a dedicated theater room.

I think my theater room is fantastic for the price. Most people I know who took on a project like this paid over 30 grand.

 

[vi edit]

Hey Rio - how does that suspended ceiling handle the vibrations from the audio? And do you have anything up there for insulating/isolation to the floor above?

As for the OP -

You have to check out the dedicated theatre build forum at AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=19

 

[RupTheKid]

EliteRetard - I design and build home theaters for a living. When you're ready to get started and need some free advice drop me a line...I'll be happy to draw up some sketches and give you a checklist.

As for budget, if you're going to go dual display (flat panel + motorized projector screen to drop down over the flat panel), and if you want 110+dB SPLs for 'ground-shaking bass', I'd probably budget 20K. Loud bass doesn't come cheap...but it's not really a world-class theater without it.

Also, if I were you I'd keep an eye out on your local Craigslist for theater seats...you can save a bundle that way.

Enjoy!

Rup

 

[vi edit]

If it's a basement build he can set up his screen wall to an unfinished side. A behringer EP2500 is about $300, a couple fi Audio 18" IB's will run you $500. That's some serious subsonic assault on the cheap.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: EliteRetard
Sorry for the slow reply, and thanks for all the input so far. It sounds like $15K is more than enough, and $10K should be good. Really I was asking for you to give me a budget, but in all the recommendations I'm seeing there seems to be a close price range. Of course I dont know if this includes labor or if you all think I can build and set this thing up myself. So what the heck, for now lets say 10K and Ill say an extra 5K incase I need professional help or for construction or whatever.

One of the main questions so far has been how large is the room. I dont know, that was another part of my question. Most of the time Ill have no more than 4 people or so, and maybe seats for 6. I figure if I can have enough room to drag in a few extra chairs and get 10 if neeed thatll be enough. 100-120"+ screen? But how big a room would I need for that, and is there a preferred shape for an entertainment room? If the place I'm getting doesn't have the required shape/size room then Ill have one made. So if someone can chime in on this part that can answer the question...and is there a type of wall or material that would change things (they always have curtains in theaters)?

How hard is it to make your own screen, and what advantages are there to curved screens? They also have motorized screens to fit all the different aspect ratios? What would it cost to buy? To make? To have someone else make?

Being able to put up the walls and have the wires done before the finishing is a big plus when it comes to HT. Since it is a dedicated HT, just go with 1 display. Research a reliable projector, and just put the money you were going to buy the second display with in a bank and buy a lamp or 3 down the line. Get a 1080p projector, mid level receiver, decent speakers and sub and you are set. IF you have enough space, you could try to build an IB sub, which will be cheaper and outperform anything you can afford.

Thing is with this room, I'm spending some money on nice parts, Id like to be able to make use of them for my computer and such as well. I use my computer more than I watch movies...so I do need a computer display (instead of a second TV, since I can probably use it for a TV anyway if I wanted, since I think the computer will be running everything). Im still not sure how I could get a computer setup in such a way that I could use its basic display for menial tasks and the projector for all the good stuff while still making it all comfortable.

Whats an IB sub?

if OP doesn't opt for ground shaking SPLs

Whats this? Ground shaking could be fun...sounds expensive.

How handy are you? Being able to build the room will save you a ton of money. And it looks like HTPC is the way you are going with, just have a normal size LCD screen for your computer and secondary display is the projector. That is my current setup.



http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/

read that about IB subs.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: vi edit
If it's a basement build he can set up his screen wall to an unfinished side. A behringer EP2500 is about $300, a couple fi Audio 18" IB's will run you $500. That's some serious subsonic assault on the cheap.

I was going to build an IB... but my wife threatened eviction...


the plus side is I am not deaf :laugh: