Considering dual boot Win10 + Linux (Linux as primary OS)

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,053
10,234
136
Has anyone here tried this? Does Win10 play well with others even when say feature updates come along?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,671
7,896
126
Dunno, but I'm not a big fan of dual booting. My preference in decending order...

gnu/linux only
gnu/linux + wine programs
gnu/linux + windows vm
gnu/linux windows dual boot

That said, I don't see any reason dual booting wouldn't work.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,929
1,098
126
I'm not a fan of dual booting either unless you really need to for some reason. I'd try VirtualBox first and see if that fits your needs.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,530
676
136
I have setup dual boot on the laptops and desktops I use, no issues. The latest being the R7 2700X box.

GRUB 2 is used for the boot loader. It is best to run the OS's on two separate drives.
 
Reactions: whm1974

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,053
10,234
136
GRUB 2 is used for the boot loader. It is best to run the OS's on two separate drives.

Is that recommendation for simplicity's sake or something else?

I'm no stranger to dual-booting with multiple operating systems on the same drive but it's been a while since I last did it.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,530
676
136
Is that recommendation for simplicity's sake or something else?

I'm no stranger to dual-booting with multiple operating systems on the same drive but it's been a while since I last did it.

If you can do separate drives I would, makes it easier to manage changes and failures.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,053
10,234
136
If you can do separate drives I would, makes it easier to manage changes and failures.

Does it though? I haven't had much experience of OS failure when dual-booting but whether you've got two drives each with their own OS or one drive with both OS's, the boot manager has to go one one of the drives and the other is likely useless without it (from an OS boot perspective).

Also, I meant to ask already - I assume when you say you've set up dual boot, I assume you mean Win10 and Linux; with GRUB as the bootloader have you had any trouble with Win10 feature updates?
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,530
676
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Does it though? I haven't had much experience of OS failure when dual-booting but whether you've got two drives each with their own OS or one drive with both OS's, the boot manager has to go one one of the drives and the other is likely useless without it (from an OS boot perspective).

Also, I meant to ask already - I assume when you say you've set up dual boot, I assume you mean Win10 and Linux; with GRUB as the bootloader have you had any trouble with Win10 feature updates?

Not even a failure, but lets say you wanted to try a different distro and format the non Windows drive, having separate drives makes that easier.

In terms of dropping a drive and still being able to boot; when using a UEFI system, you can still select 'Windows Boot Manger' in the BIOS if the Linux drive is removed.

Booting with GRUB 2 depends on where GRUB lives, if it is on the primary Windows drive and that is dropped, then you would have to repair the boot for Linux. (but I have not had that issue)

No issues with Windows Update; as the Linux drive is not seen or mounted in Windows.
 

corkyg

Elite Member | Peripherals
Super Moderator
Mar 4, 2000
27,370
239
106
I use separate drives and a mobile rack. Keeps things tidy that way.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,733
565
126
Have you ever had any compatibility issues that way?

I personally haven't but I don't play multiplayer games much anymore, the most recent ones I've just played in linux native anyway.

I've read that some anti-cheat programs block running in a VM. I believe there's an issue with messaged signalling interrupts that sometimes causes issues but there's a VM flag to fix that too. Those are just general things with VMs though where the software tries to detect it, not compatibility issues really.

Its still a pain to setup mostly, a lot easier than it was (most guides you read really over complicate it IMO) but hardware selection is important to minimize any gotchas. One thing I really, really like though is I can just snapshot the Windows disk and roll back if it blows up for some reason. That and I can use my PC for something else instead of staring at an update screen.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,053
10,234
136
@PingSpike
Interesting, certainly worth noting as a pet project for another time. For the time being (ie. when I start the migration from Win7 to Linux + Win10), I think I'll have enough on my plate trying to adopt Linux (and learn more about it, on a scale from complete newbie to sysadmin as my primary OS for the time being

Dual booting: My plan is to back everything up, then wipe my 256GB SSD, install Win10 on that, then add a spare 128GB SSD I have and install Lubuntu on that. I assume Linux will take over boot management automatically. Sound plan?

With regard to people not-particularly-recommending dual-boot: Gaming is one aspect of the need to dual-boot, the other is that my business is 99% Windows-based (tech supporting home users / businesses); while this doesn't necessitate that I run Windows full-time, I'm sure I'll still have some dependency on it. While i already make some use of VMs, and I'm sure that under Linux I'll probably make greater use of a Windows VM partly as a stepping stone and partly to avoid rebooting into Win10 unnecessarily.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,733
565
126
@mikeymikec
Yeah, its kind of a labor of love. I dove in head first on that project (very little linux experience) but I had been doing a lot with ESXi and passthrough so the majority of the concepts were at least familiar to me.

The trouble with dual booting in my experience is you spend so much time booting you eventually will just end up on Windows. Windows also has in the past blown away boot loaders for linux when it updates. My system dual boots as well, but I never use it honestly. I kept my old install for troubleshooting. I use a drive bay with power switches in it to turn off power to the Windows disk or the linux disk before booting so they can't access one another.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,053
10,234
136
I've dual-booted before, I know what it's like (though I got on perfectly well with a Win98 + WinNT4 dual boot, a good few other configurations didn't work out for the reasons you describe). This time though I'm considering the fact that I'm running Win7 as my only OS, that stops being supported in 2020 which I regard to be an absolute stop date personally. Unless MS's policies with regard to Win10 change dramatically I can't see me changing to it unless I really can't make Linux work for me.

In the past my Linux experiences have been marred by (application) software installation and updates. After an experience with a customer's computer (they were running a massively out-of-date version of Mint), I convinced myself to give Linux another try, but to evaluate it according to past experiences. I took a 2016 release of Lubuntu, tried a few things with it and then told it to do an OS update itself and everything worked out. Given that I'm not generally trying out betas of LibreOffice or anything like that (even on Win7 right now I'm running 5.3.x rather than the latest stable branch release), I think I'm happy to just go with the flow with regard to updates.

With regard to slow boot times though, SSDs are obscenely fast compared to the HDD boot times of yesteryear. On the occasion that I reboot Win7 it's finished booting in less than 10 seconds, and when I've dual-booted before VMs weren't really a thing (or mainstream thing) yet.

Your comment about boot loaders is the reason why I asked if you/anyone had any experience with Win10 doing such things The idea of having to fix the boot process of maybe two operating systems twice a year would make my blood boil.

I also very much want Linux to work because with regard to that customer's computer recently, getting it up and running with an up-to-date version of Linux was at least half the price of what it would have been if Windows was the only choice. The computer was ancient so it would have gone to the scrap heap because investing that much in it would have made no sense. If I learn enough about Linux to realistically offer it as an alternative to customers who are used to Windows yet have no particular requirement for it, that potentially means more work for me (and knowledge wise I would branch out considerably rather than the tiny increments I add to my Windows knowledge these days). I was also impressed with Lubuntu having an idle memory footprint of 150-300MB as opposed to >1GB

I think I still ought to list all the tasks I perform on Windows to make sure I've got all my bases covered should I make this move.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,530
676
136
I've dual-booted before, I know what it's like (though I got on perfectly well with a Win98 + WinNT4 dual boot, a good few other configurations didn't work out for the reasons you describe). This time though I'm considering the fact that I'm running Win7 as my only OS, that stops being supported in 2020 which I regard to be an absolute stop date personally. Unless MS's policies with regard to Win10 change dramatically I can't see me changing to it unless I really can't make Linux work for me.

In the past my Linux experiences have been marred by (application) software installation and updates. After an experience with a customer's computer (they were running a massively out-of-date version of Mint), I convinced myself to give Linux another try, but to evaluate it according to past experiences. I took a 2016 release of Lubuntu, tried a few things with it and then told it to do an OS update itself and everything worked out. Given that I'm not generally trying out betas of LibreOffice or anything like that (even on Win7 right now I'm running 5.3.x rather than the latest stable branch release), I think I'm happy to just go with the flow with regard to updates.

With regard to slow boot times though, SSDs are obscenely fast compared to the HDD boot times of yesteryear. On the occasion that I reboot Win7 it's finished booting in less than 10 seconds, and when I've dual-booted before VMs weren't really a thing (or mainstream thing) yet.

Your comment about boot loaders is the reason why I asked if you/anyone had any experience with Win10 doing such things The idea of having to fix the boot process of maybe two operating systems twice a year would make my blood boil.

I also very much want Linux to work because with regard to that customer's computer recently, getting it up and running with an up-to-date version of Linux was at least half the price of what it would have been if Windows was the only choice. The computer was ancient so it would have gone to the scrap heap because investing that much in it would have made no sense. If I learn enough about Linux to realistically offer it as an alternative to customers who are used to Windows yet have no particular requirement for it, that potentially means more work for me (and knowledge wise I would branch out considerably rather than the tiny increments I add to my Windows knowledge these days). I was also impressed with Lubuntu having an idle memory footprint of 150-300MB as opposed to >1GB

I think I still ought to list all the tasks I perform on Windows to make sure I've got all my bases covered should I make this move.

UEFI and GRUB 2 work very well together. I unhooked the Linux SSD in the 2700X box and switched the BIOS to just boot from 'Windows Boot Loader' for troubleshooting a Windows network foible; the Ubuntu option (which invokes GRUB 2) is still available in the boot options.

The best thing to do is make a good backup of your Windows drive with Macrium Reflect Free, and if things are not right or go really sideways, use that to restore to the pre-Linux state.

The general use laptop has Win 10 and Mint 18.3 on the same drive and Windows (and Mint) has updated multiple times no issues.
 

mv2devnull

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2010
1,503
145
106
UEFI and GRUB 2 work very well together.
I have in UEFI menu two entries. Each loads something from EFI System Partition (where Microsoft and Linux distro have their own subdirectories). One of the entries is the default. In order to access the other I have to hit UEFI Boot Menu key.

One of the entries is Windows 10. The other is GRUB2/Linux. I don't boot to Windows from GRUB menu.


I had only one issue: I had put GPT partition on the disk with Linux (for EFI). Windows installer from USB sold by Microsoft did boot in legacy BIOS mode and obviously failed, when encountering the "wrong" partition table. I don't know whether to blame MS or the motherboard/UEFI vendor, but simply by making a copy of the USB, where EFI-subtree had different case in names, I got the board to UEFI-boot from USB. I had thought that those filesystems are case insensitive.

It might be possible to have EFI System Partition on multiple drives, for the UEFI menu entries are(?) on the motherboard, and hence "one disk, one install".


Anyway, whether you have one or many drives, the backup is a topic of its own.
 

NoSoupforyou

Member
Dec 20, 2016
55
9
51
I have had Windows 10 and Solus Linux dual boot on my computer for a year and works very well. But i rarely used Windows 10 and did not like the idea of the Win10 data drive spinning for no reason. Looked into options and i found the Kingwin data switch on Amazon. Works really well. Fits into the DVD slot. 6 lighted switches on front.

I have since stopped dual booting. I now have Linux on drive 1. Win10 (boot ssd) on drive 2 and data on drive 3. I have a 4th drive for distro hopping and testing. This way i now have all drives separated and off when i do not need them.
Sure not as convenient as dual boot, have to shut down, get up and push a couple of buttons. Reboot and which ever OS i wanted is now running. Would also be handy if you want to use a drive for backup. That way it only on when you want to use it or to back up.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
I have had Windows 10 and Solus Linux dual boot on my computer for a year and works very well. But i rarely used Windows 10 and did not like the idea of the Win10 data drive spinning for no reason. Looked into options and i found the Kingwin data switch on Amazon. Works really well. Fits into the DVD slot. 6 lighted switches on front.

I have since stopped dual booting. I now have Linux on drive 1. Win10 (boot ssd) on drive 2 and data on drive 3. I have a 4th drive for distro hopping and testing. This way i now have all drives separated and off when i do not need them.
Sure not as convenient as dual boot, have to shut down, get up and push a couple of buttons. Reboot and which ever OS i wanted is now running. Would also be handy if you want to use a drive for backup. That way it only on when you want to use it or to back up.
Hmmm . . . I'd always wanted an option for something similar to the KINGWIN HDD-PS6 Hard Drive Power Switch.

Especially good if you don't have much chance of installing every hard disk in a hot-swap bay-and-caddy arrangement with key-switches controlling power to a drive.

Here is what I did instead to keep power draw of spinning drives to a minimum. I have Win 7 and Win 10 in dual-boot, with a separate boot-system volume for each OS and all on the same NVME drive. Additional data drives have their space split between two volumes, each one visible as a drive letter to each respective OS.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,053
10,234
136
As per someone's suggestion here I am taking a Windows 7 backup of the SSD right now, though I'm wondering whether revising my plan to start dual-booting is a good idea.

Some questions:

1 - If I disconnect my current SSD, plug in the 128GB spare SSD, install Linux on that, make sure that basic things are working like for example X and my graphics card (R9 380X) playing nicely together, then disconnect the 128GB, plug my 256GB one back in, install Win10 on that, swap again, boot Linux once then plug in the Win10 SSD alongside it, how can I tell GRUB to take on boot management and add an entry for Win10 into its boot configuration options? Is there an auto-detect other operating systems option?

2 - What would people recommend I use for VMs on Linux? I'm used to using Oracle VirtualBox on Windows despite some limitations, I currently have a Win98 VM (which I can probably delete), an XP VM (which would definitely be handy), and I can see myself adding a Win7 VM into the mix provided things go according to plan, as well as possibly a Linux VM for messing about in.
 

mv2devnull

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2010
1,503
145
106
1. If you are talking about GRUB2 (and not the leagcy GRUB), then yes, there are some "probe for systems" scripts, but one can also supply a custom manual entry in separate, included file. The GRUB2 config might seem daunting, and frankly I've never bothered to really know it, once I got system running.

2. I have CentOS, which offers KVM and libvirt as interface to it by default. In fact the default desktop install of CentOS installs the virtualization packages whether one needs them or not. A cloud service provider has KVM via OpenStack (and Open Nebula before it). VMware is mentioned often. Can I recommend? Well, "works for me" is probably not sufficient, and due to lack of knowing other systems, I cannot compare.
 

SlowBox

Member
Jul 4, 2018
80
5
16
Your trying to have it where you can press a key combo and it goes to Linux, then hit it again and your in windows. So its not dual boot, its both OSes loaded and you can switch back and forth. I know you can do this but I forgot what name of app or what not was used.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,733
565
126
I second mv2devnull on using KVM/libvirt.

virt-manager gives you the GUI to control it that is similar to Virtualbox or VMware workstation products. Its also the backend almost all GPU passthrough configurations use these days so if you have any interest in that for a later project some experience with it would be helpful. But even if you aren't interested in that, I think its a really good and feature rich package even after spending a fair amount of time with virtualbox and vmware stuff. The only thing I really miss from VMware is their virtual 3D video card that passes some of its work off to the host graphics.
 
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