Considering purchasing my first projector

[leglez]

I have been wanting to get rid of my DLP for a while now since it takes up so much floor space. I was wanting to get an LED or LCD display, but now I am considering a projector. I currently have a 62" Toshiba DLP, I can probably sell it on craigslist for around $600 or so. I am wanting to keep the total budget around $1,000 - $1,200.

From wall to wall it is 15' with a 7' ceiling, and the wall the picture would be on is 8' wide, its a white wall, not sure if I would need to paint it a different shade or not or if I would need to buy a separate screen or a sheet or something to hang. I used a projector calculator thing and think I can get around a 130-140" screen at 15'. I am looking at the Optoma HD20 and HD65.

The room that the projector would be in has 3 windows, and 1 door leading outside. The screen would be on the West wall, there is a window on the East wall, and then on the south wall, along with the door on the south wall. I don't have a problem hanging black sheets over them or something. I looked at videos on youtube of the HD20 and HD65 and it looks like they perform pretty well in the light.

I am assuming there is no audio for the projectors so I would have to go with another audio source correct? Is there an audio out on the projectors or would I have to run separate audio cables to a receiver? Is there any good HTIB that I could upgrade over time? I feel this would be a better option to keep me in budget. I have an old 2.0 sony receiver, and some Pioneer speakers if nothing else.

I would like to mount the projector on the ceiling so that I can have my couch directly across from the screen. If I mount it on the ceiling how would I go about running cables to it? I plan on hooking up my PS3 and Xbox 360, but possibly will also hook up my computer to it. Are there ceiling mounts with shelves? Or would I have to run cables from the components to the projector from an entertainment stand?

Is there a major difference in the HD20 and HD65 besides 720P and 1080P? I would like to get the most bang for the buck, but I don't want to be in a completely dark room to view the screen. I mostly will be using the projector for playing Xbox 360, and watching blu-rays on the ps3.

Sorry for all the questions, just curious about entering the projector world, thank you for any help!

Edit:

After reading a few topics I think I might try to build my own screen using YoYos guide.

I also didn't even think about moving the couch forward a few feet and then putting the projector and components behind the couch on a rack or something. So that should save some money since I won't have to purchase a ceiling mount or have to worry about running cables to it.

 

[sdifox]

So room is 15x8x7 (LWD)?

what is your current audio setup?

Usually, all source components are hooked up to the receiver and the receiver feeds output devices such as speakers and display.

At this point, I would not bother with 720p projector.

You will not be able to shoot 130". You do need space for the speakers in the front. Also, the further the projector from the screen, the dimmer it becomes. You want to find a range where you can run the pj at low lamp mode so it lasts longer.

The Optoma HD20 has 1.2 zoom, the Mitsubishi HC3800 has 1.5 zoom.

No ceiling mount? just put a coffee table below the projector and no one should walk into the projector.

 

[sivart]

130" at a 15' viewing distance would be too big for me. Why? Because I tried something like this and I was having to move my eyes side to side to keep up with the action. Something like sitting at the front row at the movies.

Plus, if you project on the 8' wide wall, a 106" will probably be the largest image (wall to wall). As long as you can get an acoustically transparent screen and mount the front speakers in the wall, you can go wall-to-wall with the screen. Then again, that type of screen alone may blow your budget

See the link below for info on my theater in a 12x15x9 room. (Pictures, too)
Edit: The Link

 

[leglez]

The room is 15x11x7 (LWH) but the wall that the picture will be on has a opening leading to the kitchen all the way on the right side.

I currently don't have any audio setup, except for the stock TV speakers. Like I said I do have an older sony receiver and some old pioneer speakers I could hook up for short term until I can get my hands on an Onkyo HTIB or something.

I think I would be fine with somewhere between an 80" and 100" screen. Heck I am fine with the 62" I currently have, it just takes up too much floor space so anything above 62" is fine with me.

I looked at the Mitsubishi HC3800 and it looks like it is well out of my range, any other 1080P projectors for around $1,000?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

A couple good projector sites are
http://www.projectorcentral.com/
http://www.projectorreviews.com/

There is also the under $3000 digital projection category on AVSforum for a ton of info (probably too much )

Especially if you're going to want to try to watch with some ambient light, a smaller screen size (than your originally proposed size) will be important. 130" is asking a lot for many projectors even in a very dark room.

Just for example, a couple years ago I was taking some pictures of my AE900U and accidentally left a light on in another room for one of the shots.

Since a projector can only add light to the screen, the color of your screen / wall is what "black" will be.

In general, projectors have gotten brighter, but they're still going to look their best in very dark rooms. I have light blocking curtains in my room now. A really cheap option is cardboard / aluminum foil. Sheets would help, but any light in the room is going to wash out the picture to some degree.

I've only been doing shelf mounting so far, so I don't have advice on ceiling mounting / cable runs. It's been quite easy for me to do cable runs to behind my seating though for my shelf mounted setups.

 

[RedCOMET]

I have my equipment rack and projector in different rooms. I used some Cable Raceways i found at my local Home Depot.

Here is a link of some cable raceways just to give you an idea whats available.
http://cableorganizer.com/cable-raceway/plastic-basic-raceway.html

Here is what I use at home:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Char_0079/HT_024.JPG
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Char_0079/HT_025.JPG

 

[sivart]

I looked at the Mitsubishi HC3800 and it looks like it is well out of my range, any other 1080P projectors for around $1,000?

I wouldn't rule out any 720p projectors. 15' deep - 1.5 feet = 13.5' actual viewing distance. At 100" you will just start to see a difference between 720p and 1080p with a 1080p source. With a smaller screen, you would notice no difference at the same distance.

With a 100" screen, you will need 92"-94" of wall space for the screen. This doesn't take into account room for any speakers. Also with a 100" screen at a good viewing height will be right up against your ceiling. I have a 9' ceiling and the top of the screen is about 24" from the ceiling.

The optoma HD20 has a list price of $1000 (1080p), however, it's throw angle is quite steep. (For example you need the middle of the lens about 12" higher than the top of the screen when ceiling mounted). This option may not work for you.

There is a lot of math to do to determine if the projector / screen combination you want will fit within the dimensions of the room you have.

So you need to think about
1) Will the screen fit on my wall and still be at a decent height?
2) Can my projector flush mounted project a square image at the height I will put my screen?
3) Can my projector project the image size I want within the depth limitations of my room?
4) How far will I be sitting and will 1080p benefit me any at this distance?
5) Do I have room for my current speakers (R, L, Center) in my room with my given screen choice?

There are more, but that will be a good starting point.

 

[ericlp]

My setup...


I prefer a ceiling mount for a few reasons...

Mounting options is far greater don't have to worry about shelf. No vibration and best of all... dust usually falls to the ground so, I don't have to clean it as much. All my cables that run back to the receiver go back under the floor. advantage to having full basement!

Anyway that is an optima PJ and I like it a lot. Tho you might want to wait for a few months to see the new DLP LED PJ from samsung suppose to be 1K luma's and the bulb is suppose to last 30K hours. Depending on the specs I may get that next.

 

[leglez]

Thanks for the fast responses!

Would a 90"-100" screen at 15' be feasible with the HD20? Is there anything better out for around $1,000? I would like to spend $1,000 for the projector that way I still have some left over to purchase the shelves/racks and build the screen and everything else. I would like to put the rack behind the couch like in this picture:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/ATOT_T-shirts/FinalRoom2.JPG

I would like to have all my components on the rack also for easier management and so I won't have to run cables all the way across the room.

I would be fine with getting some light blocking curtains or something to put over the windows and doors. Do you have any suggestions for brands to look for or fabrics?

The floor standing speakers I plan on using originally are 15" wide. So I could have a 90" wide screen, that would put me at 51" high for a 16x9 screen with the corner to corner dimension being 103".

I would probably go down to an even 100" making it 87"x49".

Is there any easy way to figure the optimal viewing height for a screen?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Projector Central's projection calculator is usually pretty good.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD20-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Unfortunately something that lot cost DLP projectors tend to lack is placement flexibility. I believe there is no lens shift on the HD20 and it looks like the fixed offset on it is kind of extreme. It looks like they designed this one for either coffee table mounting or ceiling mounting since the projected image would either be entirely above or entirely below the actual projector position.

Am I reading that right?

EDIT:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/hd20/tour.php

HD20 Lens Throw

The manual lens has a 1.2:1 zoom ratio - typical for most DLP home theater projectors. For a 100 inch diagonal, 16:9 screen, the projector (measured from the front of the lens), can be placed as close as 10 feet 10.5 inches to 13 feet 1 inch. This type of throw distance is also very typical for a DLP projector. This gives you just over 2 feet of placement flexibility for a screen of that size. Looking at a larger or smaller screen, you can calculate the distances easily from the numbers above. (A 10% larger screen - 110" diagonal would have distances 10% greater for both closest and furthest away...)


HD20 Lens Shift

The HD20 lacks any adjustable lens shift. This Optoma has less lens offset than many past Optoma projectors (and a number of other DLP models with no lens shift). That's a good thing. For that same 100" diagonal screen, the Optoma HD20, when ceiling mounted, needs to be placed (measured from the center of the lens) almost exactly 8 inches above the top of the screen surface - or if on a table, 8 inches below the bottom of the screen surface.
Most previous Optoma projectors had a lot more offset - typically more like 18 inches worth. This configuration on the HD20 will allow more folks to own and properly place the HD20 in their rooms. Unlike those projectors with that extra offset, the HD20 should work in most rooms with 8 and 9 foot ceilings, unless you go with a very large screen (over 110" diagonal).

 

[leglez]

Would I be better off going with a more expensive 720P projector? Do you have any recommendations for a projector under $1,000 that I can mount on a shelf? I rent my current place, so I don't really want to mount a ceiling mount and then also have to run raceways down the wall. I also don't want to put it on a coffee table or anything like that. I would much rather it be behind the couch out of the way.

How about something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Epson-PowerLite-Cinema-Theater-Projector/dp/B000YNS0D2

It has vertical and horizontal lens shift for $968 and does 720P.

 

[sivart]

Projector Central's projection calculator is usually pretty good.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD20-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Unfortunately something that lot cost DLP projectors tend to lack is placement flexibility. I believe there is no lens shift on the HD20 and it looks like the fixed offset on it is kind of extreme. It looks like they designed this one for either coffee table mounting or ceiling mounting since the projected image would either be entirely above or entirely below the actual projector position.

Am I reading that right?

Yes, you are. Mine (Optoma HD72) is actually about 16" for a 100" image. 9' ceilings so no big problem. As long as you measure and measure and then mount, the lens shift shouldn't be necessary.

As far as viewing height, here is what I do:

Measure from the ground to my eyes in a normal watching position. This height is then where I want 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of my screen to be.

For example, If the my viewing height was 43" from the floor, I'd want a mark 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of my screen to be 43" from the floor.

 

[leglez]

As far as viewing height, here is what I do:

Measure from the ground to my eyes in a normal watching position. This height is then where I want 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of my screen to be.

For example, If the my viewing height was 43" from the floor, I'd want a mark 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of my screen to be 43" from the floor.

I just measured and mine is also 43". So if I went with a 100" screen I would want the bottom to be about 10" off the floor. Is that correct?

 

[ericlp]

Would I be better off going with a more expensive 720P projector? Do you have any recommendations for a projector under $1,000 that I can mount on a shelf? I rent my current place, so I don't really want to mount a ceiling mount and then also have to run raceways down the wall. I also don't want to put it on a coffee table or anything like that. I would much rather it be behind the couch out of the way.

How about something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Epson-PowerLit.../dp/B000YNS0D2

It has vertical and horizontal lens shift for $968 and does 720P.

HD20 DLP vs a Epson LCD?

HD20 is about the best bang for the buck your going to get. Ceiling mount isn't hard. Just be a little creative. When you move Just take out a few screws some caulk to fill the holes and paint. Done deal. It's not a big job and looks professional when your done. Do it right...

 

[leglez]

Ok well if I go ceiling mounted HD20 what type of angle does the image come out of the projector? There is a fan in the room, but its in a recessed area. Here is a picture:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/leglez/IMG_0256.JPG

It goes up 12" from the ceiling, but the fan come does 17" from the top of the recessed area. So it sticks down approximately 5" from the actual ceiling that the projector would be mounted on. Is that going to create a problem for the projector? Would the image hit the fan?

Also are there any recommended ceiling mounts? Or somewhere to look at them for the best price.

 

[leglez]

Also looking at HTIB, because I just realized my tax return will be coming a lot sooner than I had expected. I think I might grab a HTIB to go with the projector to get me started with some audio. Then I can upgrade it over time. I was looking at this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...namitedata.com

For $300 it seems perfect to get me started. 5.1, with a receiver that does HDMI switching for 3 devices. Will that pair well with a PS3, 360, and PC?

 

[Zoomer]

I would check craigslist for a cheap used 5.1 receiver, and then a pair of polk monitor 30/50s, and monitor 10s for rear. That should run you a bit more than $300, but it's not a HTIB and you'll be far better positioned for upgrades.

 

[sivart]

I just measured and mine is also 43". So if I went with a 100" screen I would want the bottom to be about 10" off the floor. Is that correct?

Sorry, had the formula a little wrong :\

Just a guideline, but you can adjust as necessary, mine is about 33-36" off of the floor (eyeball).
(Here is a link with this formula -- Link)

As for the fan, you may have to remove the light fixture. (Assuming the projector is mounted on the lower ceiling). If the HD20 needs to be 8" above the screen, then it throws down at an angle. So depending on how close your projector is to the fan and how high your screen is you may or may not need to adjust it.

For example, in my brother's apartment, he has 5" of clearance between the fan blade and the lens, however it doesn't interfere with the image (Optoma HD65). It has a bigger throw angle than the HD20.

I guess you could use geometry to calculate the angle base on projector and distance it is mounted...I'm just too tired tonight

 

[leglez]

Thanks, I am going to play with numbers tomorrow and try to figure out what size screen would be best.

I just came upon the Vivitek H1080FD. It appears to be a bit better than the HD20, and about $40 cheaper, but it only has 3 color wheel rather than the 4 color wheel that the HD20 has. This makes it more vunerable to the rainbow effect? I have never really used a projector so I am not sure if I am effect by this or not. Is there anyway to see if I am? I am wanting to get the best projector for my money, but don't want to go with one and have the rainbow effect.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

The only way to tell is to go out and look at some DLPs with similar speeds.

They are most obvious to me when the screen is mostly dark with small amounts of bright white on the screen. (Like ending credits).

If I move my eyes too quickly, the rainbow effect becomes quite obvious. LCDs don't have this issue, but that's not to say they are better overall.

 

[leglez]

Ok thanks I am going to try to track down some best buys in the area and see if any of them have any projectors set up for viewing.

 

[ericlp]

My fan isn't even recessed you should not have to move anything at all... These have very steep angles. It drops quit a bit after about 4'. I have about 106-108" screen. I still think your best bet would be the H20. I think the H20, has a 4X color wheel. I can not detect any rainbows at all. I've tried all the tricks ...moving my eyes around just can't see them.

Good Luck...

 

[leglez]

Ok I am pretty much set on the HD20. Just waiting for my tax refund to come in. Now are there any places to order and get better pricing or package deals or anything? Will bestbuy pricematch Amazon or anything?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

There are several internet dealers that cater to the projector crowd.

I got my latest one from Projector People. One thing that's particularly nice about them is that they give you 4 hours of lamp time to decide if you're satisfied with your purchase.

There's also Visual Apex which specializes in projectors.

Places like those have a lot of bundle options available. I haven't needed to buy a bundle personally though, so I don't really know if it's a good idea vs. buying things on their own.

 

[leglez]

Thanks, I am looking at projector people and it looks like its perfect free shipping too. Do you know where it says the 4 hour gurantee thing? I looked around and can't find it.