Discussion Considering upgrading 2500K business PC (UPDATED)

[UsandThem]

Just an update...

I went ahead and threw some money at it... the pending Windows 10 update was upon me, and I didn't want to waste time installing it, then turning around and doing it again when I updated the hardware. I did get a little cheap on the CPU... I settled for the 2700X vs the 3700X, and I'm just continuing on with the conventional SSDs, since I have about 10 of them lying about.

New hardware:

AMD Ryzen 7 2700X,
ASRock B450M Pro4,
2x16GB Crucial Ballistic 3200 RAM
Windows 10.

It feels a little snappier in use, but it hangs sometimes when I'm opening something. Hopefully it will iron itself out as I continue to polish the W10 turd install.

I have the 2700X and everything is snappy for me. That said, I use an NVMe drive for my OS disk.

Also, if you haven't done so already, make sure to install AMD chipset drivers: https://www.amd.com/en/products/chipsets-am4

 

[Markfw]

This one has a heat sink ! and its only $130, and its gen 4 (if you ever upgrade to x570) 500 gig.

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

 

[Charlie98]

Also, if you haven't done so already, make sure to install AMD chipset drivers: https://www.amd.com/en/products/chipsets-am4

Well, and that's interesting... my ASRock board came with a driver disk, and I only used 2 of them... the 2 Realtek drivers... nothing for the chipset itself. All AMD has to offer... and I've already been to where that link sends you... is the Ryzen Master, which I have little use for. I'm used to installing around 8 drivers... for Intel chips.... or am I missing something?

 

[Charlie98]

This one has a heat sink ! and its only $130, and its gen 4 (if you ever upgrade to x570) 500 gig.

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

Truthfully, Mark... by the time I upgrade this system... hopefully... we will be on x57000 with Ryzen 6700x...

 

[UsandThem]

Well, and that's interesting... my ASRock board came with a driver disk, and I only used 2 of them... the 2 Realtek drivers... nothing for the chipset itself. All AMD has to offer... and I've already been to where that link sends you... is the Ryzen Master, which I have little use for. I'm used to installing around 8 drivers... for Intel chips.... or am I missing something?

You have to select your motherboard chipset....in your case the B450. You never want to use the drivers that come on a disc. They are almost always horribly outdated. You can download things like the Realtek driver directly from Asrock. As far as the chipset driver I mentioned, AMD always has the newest version on their site.

 

[Charlie98]

OK... I did just that... and all I got was Ryzen Master.

 

[Charlie98]

That's it... all I get...

 

[UsandThem]

That's it... all I get...

I have no idea how you are landing there. The link I gave should take you here (in which you would click download chipset driver):




I don't know if it will work, but here is the download link for the B450 chipset driver: https://drivers.amd.com/drivers/amd_chipset_software_1.11.22.454.zip

Edit: Just tried and the direct link to the zip file doesn't work.

 

[Charlie98]

Hmmm... I tried it for the 27th time... and it worked! Thank you! ... I don't think I would have ever found it, otherwise.

 

[Markfw]

Truthfully, Mark... by the time I upgrade this system... hopefully... we will be on x57000 with Ryzen 6700x...

Well, you were wondering about the pause. Your old SSDs could be the reason. This will work fine on your motherboard, and be like 5-10 times faster than your SSDs, maybe more. The NEW WD SSDis 500 read 500 write. The one I linked is 5000 read, 2500 write. Your SSDs are probably slower than the NEW WD drive, so it could be like 10-50 times faster.

At any rate, you are wasting all that new speed on dinosaur SSDs.

 

[Charlie98]

At any rate, you are wasting all that new speed on dinosaur SSDs.

I'm sorry... but that's funny.

 

[Markfw]

I'm sorry... but that's funny.

Well, I guess, you have a nice new CPU and computer being dragged down by your old SSDs. I guess I am done here.

Edit: You make this complaint "but it hangs sometimes when I'm opening something. ", and I give you advice for the solution, and you say "that's funny".

Well good luck.

 

[Charlie98]

Well, I guess, you have a nice new CPU and computer being dragged down by your old SSDs. I guess I am done here.

Edit: You make this complaint "but it hangs sometimes when I'm opening something. ", and I give you advice for the solution, and you say "that's funny".

Well good luck.

No, Mark... I'm laughing at the concept of 'dinosaur SSD'... in much the same way some thought of HDD's when SSD's first came out. It seems odd that we are now in a time where a 500GB quality SSD is considered a dinosaur compared to M.2 or NVMe. I dug out my old 60GB Agility3 SSD a few months ago and was playing with it, and I realize how far we've come.

Now... here's where I'm at... my old i5/2500K system wasn't exactly snappy, but it didn't hang. Please tell me why, with new hardware and 4x MOAR cores, using the same basic drive... it's hanging. In fact, the more I work with it, the more unstable it's becoming... that isn't a OS drive issue.

 

[Flayed]

The crucial mx500 shouldn't be the cause of hanging, not if it's working right. The 4k QD1 random read and write is not that much slower than the fastest most expensive NVME drive available.

I am using a 1TB Crucial BX100 as my boot drive on a 3570k system and I would say it's pretty snappy still for standard desktop use. The system is a little slow at installing large applications but I think that is down to the CPU and RAM more than the SSD.

 

[Markfw]

No, Mark... I'm laughing at the concept of 'dinosaur SSD'... in much the same way some thought of HDD's when SSD's first came out. It seems odd that we are now in a time where a 500GB quality SSD is considered a dinosaur compared to M.2 or NVMe. I dug out my old 60GB Agility3 SSD a few months ago and was playing with it, and I realize how far we've come.

Now... here's where I'm at... my old i5/2500K system wasn't exactly snappy, but it didn't hang. Please tell me why, with new hardware and 4x MOAR cores, using the same basic drive... it's hanging. In fact, the more I work with it, the more unstable it's becoming... that isn't a OS drive issue.

Well, it could very well be. Now that the CPU is much faster, its requiring a lot more from the SSDs. If they can't provide it fast enough, it hangs until it gets what it needs. Could very well be that. CPUs don't hang unless they are waiting for something.

and SSDs like hard drives go bad. How old is that one ?

 

[Markfw]

The crucial mx500 shouldn't be the cause of hanging, not if it's working right. The 4k QD1 random read and write is not that much slower than the fastest most expensive NVME drive available.

I am using a 1TB Crucial BX100 as my boot drive on a 3570k system and I would say it's pretty snappy still for standard desktop use. The system is a little slow at installing large applications but I think that is down to the CPU and RAM more than the SSD.

The MX 500 does 500/500 mbps read/write (rounded). The nvme drive I linked is 5000/2500 thats a BIG difference(10x on read). If its not that the MX500 is slow, it could be that its going bad. cpu/memory/motherboard dont do that.

Or its a windows thing.

 

[Charlie98]

and SSDs like hard drives go bad. How old is that one ?

Or its a windows thing.

It's only got about 4600 hours on it, and only 3TB writes to it. I already found one bad SATA cable (to the optical drive... which is why trying to download the drivers gave me fits.)

I'm going to say Windows. I've already re-fresh installed it... and it's worse than it was yesterday. Acronis is completely wasted, Office won't behave itself, even things as simple as pulling up This PC will lock it up. I start programs... and they just never open.

In all of the Windows 7 installs I did, on new builds or reloads... none of them have been as bad as this, and to compound it, here I am working with new hardware, and hardware (AMD) that I'm not very familiar with.

 

[Arkaign]

Hmm. My 3700X build ran on an old Adata 240GB SATA SSD for a while during the wait for an nVME SSD to arrive for it. It certainly didn't hang up microfreeze, nor did the 2700X it replaced.

That sounds like a more fundamental issue like motherboard configuration for the CPU is just unhappy. This may sound unusual, but try actually manually setting to stock, and see if you can lower voltage a smidge. 1.35v is good, and turn XFR off. Seems like it's doing the on demand OC and then glitching out.

 

[Flayed]

The MX 500 does 500/500 mbps read/write (rounded). The nvme drive I linked is 5000/2500 thats a BIG difference(10x on read). If its not that the MX500 is slow, it could be that its going bad. cpu/memory/motherboard dont do that.

Or its a windows thing.

4k random QD1 it doesn't which is what OS likes

 

[Charlie98]

That sounds like a more fundamental issue like motherboard configuration for the CPU is just unhappy. This may sound unusual, but try actually manually setting to stock, and see if you can lower voltage a smidge. 1.35v is good, and turn XFR off. Seems like it's doing the on demand OC and then glitching out.

I just tried to open Acronis, again... it took... and I'm not exaggerating... 4 minutes to open.

 

[Muadib]

Do you have Crucial Storage Executive software installed? You should use it to get your S.M.A.R.T. status on you SSD.

 

[Steltek]

Do you have Crucial Storage Executive software installed? You should use it to get your S.M.A.R.T. status on you SSD.

This. You can check the health status of the SSD with it, and you can also check to see if it needs a firmware update as well. You can get it for the MX500 here.

Also, since you built it, have you checked your CPU temps to make sure you got a good TIM application (as hangs can be a sign of overheating)?

 

[Charlie98]

Do you have Crucial Storage Executive software installed? You should use it to get your S.M.A.R.T. status on you SSD.

This. You can check the health status of the SSD with it, and you can also check to see if it needs a firmware update as well. You can get it for the MX500 here.

Also, since you built it, have you checked your CPU temps to make sure you got a good TIM application (as hangs can be a sign of overheating)?

I use both CSE and CrystalDisk to keep an eye on my drives... yes, it's up-to-date and, using ATTO, posts normal SATA SSD numbers. I have a CPU temp display in my systray... I have it set to display the hottest core, and the highest it's gone is the 40's. I also have a CPU monitor... it doesn't really do anything, because I can get very little to work.

I'm going to start a new thread about this... maybe I can draw some more interest apart from the OP of this thread.

 

[Markfw]

Do you monitor the temps of the SSD under hard usage ?

I really think its IO. CPUs don;t hang. Or memory, or motherboards. Hard drives hang when they have IO errors, and SSD's hang when they overheat.

 

[Charlie98]

I just ran ATTO again, just to see... it went from 33C to 41C at the highest.

I also changed the SATA cable a little bit ago, and changed ports.