Considering water cooling?

[known12345]

I have an q6600 and an abit ip35-e and overclocked it to 3.6 at 1.5v and ran it on prime95 for 10+ hours with no errors but see very high temps (70C) with an arctic freezer 7 pro and an p182. In addition, i can't seem to go past 3.6 without having some random reboot that I have no idea what to attribute too (I created a topic in the overclocking section to find some help). Anyway, i realized that although my arctice freezer 7 pro is a great cpu cooler, on a quad and at high voltages, it can't seem to keep up with such high temperatures.

Now I would like to keep trying to hit 3.7 or 3.8 but with my current cpu cooler, I doubt i can so was wondering if purchasing a better cpu cooler (possibly the TRUE 120) would allow me to overclock higher? Ive read that some individuals with the stock intel hsf cannot get past 3.2 and only with better forms of cooling can they achieve 3.4 or higher so cooling seems to be a definitive factor in overclocking (which ofcourse I am sure everyone here already knew). The question is if I switch to a water cooling setup to cool my cpu (and possibly mosfet and north bridge as the ip35-e generates high pwm temps), will I possibly see an increase in overclock?

More specifically, is it worth it to setup water cooling only for my cpu? How much better is a water cooled setup (using a D-Tek Fuzion CPU block) then just installing a TRUE 120 with a high cfm fan?

 

[MichaelD]

There's a newbie's guide to watercooling thread stickied at the top of this forum.

First off, the stock Intel HSF is not usable if overclocking, so we can just take that out of the discussion.

The Freezer7 Pro is a fantastic HSF for the money, (I run one) but it's not intended for super-high overclocking/voltages like you're going for; ergo your 70C temps.

A better air cooler will allow you to maintain lower temps which may increase your overclock. But to be honest, 3.6GHz on air is pretty much the limit for a Q6600 and is actually pretty darn good results to begin with!

I don't think you'd get an appreciably higher overclock on that chip, even with water. Your temps WOULD be lower though, which is always good.

If it were me, I'd buy a nice top-notch air cooler and try that out first. Tuniq Tower comes to mind.

Also, don't forget about the importance of case cooling. Getting fresh air into and hot air out of, the case is just as important as your CPU cooling. The CPU HSF removes heat from the CPU. That heat has to go somewhere. If the heat gets stuck in the case, your CPU temps will suffer a lot. Run your system with the sidepanel off for a few hours (benchmarking Prime95 is great for this test). The temps will be lower, but if they are a lot lower, like say 10C, then you need to look at increasing your case's air flow.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

To dispell a few things that are common overclocking myth in your post. Water cooling is not always the next best step when trying to overclock higher. It's not a bad step and can be a very potent tool when used and implemented and maintained correctly but, it's a huge commitment, it's not just dusting out a heatsink when you feel like it and get around to it. The fluid needs to be flushed every 6 months or so, the radiator needs to be dusted and it has to be constantly monitored for leaks or algae or galvanic corrosion, not to mention the initial cost of $300 and up.

Next up, the case you're using, the antec P182 is actually centered around silence more than air cooling performance, in order to get the kind of performance out of it you can out of other cases more centered around lower temperatures, you have to replace the fans and really tweak your intake and exhaust RPMs, and quite frankly it doesn't have very many fans, especially for a quad core system.

Thirdly, keeping the motherboard cool is every bit as important as the processor when shooting for higher overclocks. If you're aiming for an abnormally high overclock you should replace the chipset heatsink with an aftermakert active cooling solution and with, P35 boards, you'll more than likely have to get heatsinks for the mosfets as well.

Next up, the TRU120E, great performance, top of the landfill at this point though. Highest performance out there but, they are coming from the factory with convex bases, about 60-70% from my best estimation. Not so bad that they won't perform well but, not up to par with other top notch heatsinks, like the Tuniq Tower. Lapping is pretty much mandatory with these heatsinks. That being said, with about an hour and like $10 lapping, they're the best of the best of the best.

When picking a fan for a heatsink, highest CFM is not the only number to be concerned with and even when looking at CFM highest is not always best. In my experience anything over 60cfm can start to degrade performance and between 50 and 60 cfm there isn't a performance gain ouside the margin for error in testing. With heatisnks with closely positioned fins static pressure is every bit as important as pure CFM cause without it, the air's not getting far enough through the heatsink to make much of a difference.

Finally, when watercooling for the sake of overclocking there are basically two options, CPU and chipset on a dual 120mm radiator or better or cpu chipset and mosfets on a tripple 120mm or better. People will dispute that with me and they are not wrong but, IMHO the lower the temperature the better and if you want a great overclock you have to prepared and willing to get a little excessive where you can.

 

[Billb2]

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
To dispell a few things that are common overclocking myth

...CFM is not the only number to be concerned
...static pressure is every bit as important as pure CFM

I'm truly amazed by number of people that are completely oblivious of fan PQ curves. A 100CFM fan spec has little to do with how much air is actually going to pass through a radiator.

Excellent post!

 

[MarcVenice]

Erm, wouldn't the main question be, is a 300$ watercooling setup, and the time spent modding your p182 to fit a dual radiator setup, let alone a 3x120mm setup which will most likely have to be placed outside of the case, worth another 100-200mhz. Look at aigomorla's rigs, or marks rigs, they aren't getting much higher then 3.6ghz, using the best watercooling you can possibly get. I could understand getting a 45$ tuniq tower, which will probably decrease temps a fair bit, but spending 300$ + on a watercooling kit for such little performance gain? Unless you are ofcourse loaded and have some spare time, because personaly I'd love to get into watercooling, just to learn something from it, keep me busy, and because it looks cool.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
just to learn something from it, keep me busy, and because it looks cool.

That right there is the essence of ambient air water cooling.

Till you move up to chilled liquid or phase then it's about overclocking.

 

[QueBert]

why do people say the stock intel fan isn't sutiable for overclocking? I ran my 6550 @ 3.0 with the stock cooler (not even AS5 or nothing on it to boot) my CPU temp never went above 55c and it was rock solid. I couldn't really clock it any higher even with water or a kick ass heatsink because with the multiplier I pretty much hit the limit. I understand it wouldn't last at long, and would run cooler with a big heatsink, but 55c under full load seems fine to me. I'm idling @ 40c right now. I've set it back to 2.3ghz but I was up to 3.2 at one point on air with no crashing at all, and decent temps.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: QueBert
why do people say the stock intel fan isn't sutiable for overclocking? I ran my 6550 @ 3.0 with the stock cooler (not even AS5 or nothing on it to boot) my CPU temp never went above 55c and it was rock solid. I couldn't really clock it any higher even with water or a kick ass heatsink because with the multiplier I pretty much hit the limit. I understand it wouldn't last at long, and would run cooler with a big heatsink, but 55c under full load seems fine to me. I'm idling @ 40c right now. I've set it back to 2.3ghz but I was up to 3.2 at one point on air with no crashing at all, and decent temps.

it has a lot to do with geography. People generally have a hard time taking into account that unlike here in AZ it's probably not 75 degrees in living rooms around the world. I know I tend to forget it from time to time. Besides that 3ghz is good but, it's no 4ghz. and if a 6550 can't do 4ghz on high end air or water, it's time to consider a motherboard or memory change.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: known12345
I have an q6600 and an abit ip35-e and overclocked it to 3.6 at 1.5v and ran it on prime95 for 10+ hours with no errors but see very high temps (70C) with an arctic freezer 7 pro and an p182. In addition, i can't seem to go past 3.6 without having some random reboot that I have no idea what to attribute too

Welcome to the we hate ABIT because of this issue club.

Archangel is the President an founder of this organization. I am a member. And i guess you're a new recruit.

Its the board... archangel led me to this problem, and i reproduced it on my board.

Replace the board. Its not a great quadcore overclocking board.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Look at aigomorla's rigs, or marks rigs, they aren't getting much higher then 3.6ghz, using the best watercooling you can possibly get. I could understand getting a 45$ tuniq tower, which will probably decrease temps a fair bit, but spending 300$ + on a watercooling kit for such little performance gain? Unless you are ofcourse loaded and have some spare time, because personaly I'd love to get into watercooling, just to learn something from it, keep me busy, and because it looks cool.

pardon me and let me explain my OC.. i leave my rigs there for a reason. Not because im limited.

http://i125.photobucket.com/al.../aigomorla/Temps-2.jpg

Id say i have a TON of overclocking room if i wanted it. I just chose not to, because i leave my rigs on all the time. And the power requirement for 3.8ghz+ is about 80-90W MORE.

Were looking at 1.45Vcore vs 1.50vcore. And also the increased voltage to the NB and FSB termination, and also other tweeks like more ram voltage for the higher FSB and sort.

the extra mhz isnt worth the long term energy cost. Thats why my rigs are there. Not because its "limited". Also the stress on hardware becomes too great expecially on the ram and Mosfet on the board.

And mark is a friend of mine, and a great overclocker. However, i dont think he could keep a B3 Q6600 @ 3.6ghz on air.

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...73/aigomorla/Q6600.jpg


:]



To the OP, No dont get water. Change your board first, get a tuniq or ultra120, and play with that. Once you feel your "limited" then you jump to water. Most of the time people will be happy with what air can bring. Only the few who want more, or want to tinker with there box more will then persue water.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12

Originally posted by: QueBert
why do people say the stock intel fan isn't sutiable for overclocking? I ran my 6550 @ 3.0 with the stock cooler (not even AS5 or nothing on it to boot) my CPU temp never went above 55c and it was rock solid. I couldn't really clock it any higher even with water or a kick ass heatsink because with the multiplier I pretty much hit the limit. I understand it wouldn't last at long, and would run cooler with a big heatsink, but 55c under full load seems fine to me. I'm idling @ 40c right now. I've set it back to 2.3ghz but I was up to 3.2 at one point on air with no crashing at all, and decent temps.

it has a lot to do with geography. People generally have a hard time taking into account that unlike here in AZ it's probably not 75 degrees in living rooms around the world. I know I tend to forget it from time to time. Besides that 3ghz is good but, it's no 4ghz. and if a 6550 can't do 4ghz on high end air or water, it's time to consider a motherboard or memory change.

wait, the multiplier on the 6550's is locked @ ummm 9? How the hell could anyone get 4ghz at all, pushing the memory & FSB to the limit I'd think 3.4 on this would be tops. What am I not uderstanding here?
BTW I'm in Riverside where it gets 100 in the summer, the room I'm in has no AC and is typically very warm.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12

Originally posted by: QueBert
why do people say the stock intel fan isn't sutiable for overclocking? I ran my 6550 @ 3.0 with the stock cooler (not even AS5 or nothing on it to boot) my CPU temp never went above 55c and it was rock solid. I couldn't really clock it any higher even with water or a kick ass heatsink because with the multiplier I pretty much hit the limit. I understand it wouldn't last at long, and would run cooler with a big heatsink, but 55c under full load seems fine to me. I'm idling @ 40c right now. I've set it back to 2.3ghz but I was up to 3.2 at one point on air with no crashing at all, and decent temps.

it has a lot to do with geography. People generally have a hard time taking into account that unlike here in AZ it's probably not 75 degrees in living rooms around the world. I know I tend to forget it from time to time. Besides that 3ghz is good but, it's no 4ghz. and if a 6550 can't do 4ghz on high end air or water, it's time to consider a motherboard or memory change.

wait, the multiplier on the 6550's is locked @ ummm 9? How the hell could anyone get 4ghz at all, pushing the memory & FSB to the limit I'd think 3.4 on this would be tops. What am I not uderstanding here?
BTW I'm in Riverside where it gets 100 in the summer, the room I'm in has no AC and is typically very warm.

445FSB isn't unreasonably on a C2D with the right memory and the right person doing the tweaking. You have to remember that on air I have a A64 doing 1.5V and 3ghz with the memory on 1:1. Anything is possible when you have the right hardware and the right PATIENCE. It took me more than a year to get this system rock stable at 3ghz, 4 different rams, two chipset heatsinks, a custom BIOS built off the 5/10 and many 40+ hour days downing cases of full throttle and trying to play games on my laptop while she primmed.