Um, yeah. About that. Can we have the picture asking if Trolling or merely stupid again?
Understand that Consolization isnt only about graphics quality. It is also about over all system resource availability, disk space, access speed, etc All of which are superior in todays PC market than on the current generation of colsoles. And POTENTIAL is also lost due to these limitations inflicted by the Console. Absolutely Graphical limitations is in there and probably closer to the top than the bottom, but not the sole and exclusive reason.
Take DA2 as an example. One main reason why the development team used the same maps and tiles over and over and OVER again was to reduce development time. This was not the only reason. The other reason is that it allowed for an easier Console port. The fewer maps/textures the less space and resources necessary to support the game (i.e. consolized). The same can be said for the Wave Theory of ninja mobs. This was done mostly so that the console could handle larger volumes of creatures attacking. And it all but totally ruined the combat. In other words, two of the main reasons why DA2 was so critically panned was because it was shunted down and dumbed down just to fit in a console.
I think the OP was only at fault in that they are probably a Console Gamer to begin with who recently forayed into PC gaming, but only in as far as Console games ported to PC goes. They assume that all of the functionality of the Console games is all there is. And so they only perceive the difference being graphical. Alternately, they dont realize that most PC games today are made with consolization in mind so dont understand what the DEVS COULD HAVE DONE had they not had that restriction.
And no one is saying that every lousy multi-platform game would have turned out significantly different if it was PC exclusive. Some of them would indeed have been lousy no matter what. But people are saying that because Console gaming is 90% of the market these days, developers are not even trying to make things that fully realize the PC potential. DX11 is totally underutilized. Significant RAM capabilities are Hugely underutilized. Multi-threading and Quad core processing is largely underutilized. Either because the games coming out are intend to multi-platform it or because since they are competing against lousy multi-platform games, they dont need to push the boundaries to make a sale. In short, there isn't anywhere near as much money to be made in PC only games as there is in Console or multi-platform games.
I think where you are seeing scapegoat, I am seeing a pervasive problem that covers a lot of ills, but with one main root cause. Consolization. Just about everything that you list above is because the developers are trying to shoehorn the game into a fixed and aging platform with limitations that are not held by the PC platform. So it isn’t a scapegoat, it is an apt description of a pervading problem in the industry.That was kind of my point. It means something different to everyone, so every time a multiplatform game comes out that's too easy, it's consolized. Every time it's buggy, it's consolized. If it's got casual appeal, it's consolized. If it's not pushing bleeding edge graphics, it's consolized. If it's not as good as the original, it's consolized. If it's shorter, it's consolized. If it's dumbed down, it's consolized.
It's a scapegoat word.
Who says that it has to push the console to it’s limits? You are using spurious logic and unrelated cause and apparent effect to marginalize the argument. The programming may very well have been the best appropriate to the programmers skill and time allowed in taking an established engine and paring it down to fit in a console.See, if that was the case though, it should be pushing the console to it's very limits; which I think it clearly isn't. If you look at the breadth of environments and maps available in other console games, I don't think you can really believe that those dungeons were built like that because of technical limitations. Time limitations, I'd agree with, they wanted the game out quickly to make a cashgrab.
Whoa. There is a HUGE difference in Monsters popping out of nowhere (say dropping from the ceiling like spiders can and will) and the continuous and pervasive wave upon wave of EVERY TYPE OF MONSTER in the game popping out of nothingness once and only once you defeated the previous batch. This wasn’t “Oh, we like the mechanic of More guards coming around the corner”, this was clearly “The platform we are using takes a serious performance hit beyond X number of monsters on the screen, so let’s break them up into smaller groups or ‘Waves’”.And here again is 'consolization' in a much more ambiguous form. You don't like how the enemies pop out of nothingness (Just like the spiders, lizards, demons, assassin enemies, and probably others did in DA I might add), that's ok. But what about that is supposedly 'consolized'? If it was so consolized, wouldn't they just make it so that you're fighting fewer enemies so that there is less to render? Either that, lets assume you're right, or would you rather have the supposed 'technical limit' placed upon how enemies appear or how many enemies appear? To me if that's truly a bottleneck (speaking hypothetically) wouldn't you rather they 'consolize' an aesthetic aspect than a gameplay aspect?
Please explain. It is a fact that PCs are superior technically over consoles. Quad Core machines have more cores and multi-threading capabilities. Windows 7 can handle loads more RAM than the consoles. PCs can handle GPU’s that are 7 years superior to the consoles of today. And with each of these capabilities comes significantly greater potential for games. How is it “High horse” when pound for pound PC platforms outstrip and outpace consoles?Oi, this whole pc gaming high horse needs to die already.
Ok, some basic facts. In the first place, in 2008 PC revenues (according to your link) were just over HALF console games. And while in 2009-2011 revenues have gone up for PCs, they have moved up in just about the same amount in Consoles. As for the “Projected” figures, these are definitely based on the fact that Consoles are reaching their “End of Life” for this generation, which is represented by Console gamers adopting to the clearly superior platform (PC). But they are still projected, which means that as soon as the next gen consoles come out, those figures get pitched to the wind. I may have been off by saying 90%, but 66% is just as telling. And the fact that most games today are multi-platform is driven directly by the fact that Consoles have significant market share above PC games. And most of them are built with Console in first position and PC lagging as after thoughts, these facts haven’t changed.Console gaming is nowhere near 90% of the market. Not even remotely. PC gaming software revenue is massive. A lot of money is made differently on the PC, sure, but reaching new demographics and exploring new mediums is vital for growth.
but it sure would be nice to see console hardware progress a little faster.
the only fundamental difference between a "console port" and a "PC exclusive" game is that the min-spec target has, ironically enough,
The consoles are a *good* thing for PC gaming! The minimum spec as a 360 or a PS3 is much better than what min spec would be otherwise. This ultimately leads to higher quality graphics (which is what I assume you all complain about) right out of the gate, and a solid target platform for many, many years.
Also, because the consoles are constrained so much, it forces clever algorithmic optimization and program structure, which DOES translate over to performing well on the PCs. Ever notice how "pure PC" games nowadays run like crap, don't use more than 2 cores, etc., but the "console ports" do?
PC gaming is better than ever but it won't stay that way -- with our improved visuals, better control scheme -- if all people ever do is find stuff to complain about.
I can usually find a way to make the mouse feel mostly normal and live with the interface oddities.
Just wait for the next gen of Consoles, the improvements for them will help PC games in turn. always has
But hey at least it's saved me money since I haven't had to upgrade my video card as quickly.
Its definitely a postive thing there's a trend towards one standard in gaming, so that all platforms can enjoy the same titles.
Yea, checkpoint only save systems drive me nuts. I mean I have hundreds of gigabytes of free space on my hard drive. How hard would it be to include a "save anywhere" command. Almost all PC exclusive games back in the day had this.
It's a scapegoat word.
That was kind of my point. It means something different to everyone, so every time a multiplatform game comes out that's too easy, it's consolized. Every time it's buggy, it's consolized. If it's got casual appeal, it's consolized. If it's not pushing bleeding edge graphics, it's consolized. If it's not as good as the original, it's consolized. If it's shorter, it's consolized. If it's dumbed down, it's consolized.
It's a scapegoat word.
Got to love paying full price for software that feels like it was done as a after throught (if it even got that far).
if saving money was a #1 requirement, then I suspect stopping gaming all together would save more. People that call themselves hard core gamers are not really in it to save money.
This probably depends on the game's engine more than anything, but you would still need to make PC only UI and menus and such.Just to get some background, how difficult is it for coding to run natively on PCs first and to port it to consoles vs vice versa.
Its a little bizzare to hear arguments that consolization isn't a major issue, the nauseous feeling on tight FOVs is not a good thing. And games play better on a joypad? Absurd.
And that's why I said limitations of *current* consoles have nothing to do with whether the game has save anywhere.Actually, not 100%. Console HD space is a premium (or at least has been historicall) and so there is some thinking that goes into that decision which is driven BECAUSE it is a console, particularly with the older consoles. Admittedly it is legacy thinking, but the origins come from actual limitations on hardware.
PC to XBox1 or vice versa would have generally been easy as the architectures were the same. But for virtually all consoles, an optimized engine differs greatly from an optimized PC engine. Either porting is difficult, or corners are cut and the result looks a lot worse than the target hardware would be capable of.Just to get some background, how difficult is it for coding to run natively on PCs first and to port it to consoles vs vice versa.
Why yes, some game designs are much more suited for a joypad compared to KB+M.Its a little bizzare to hear arguments that consolization isn't a major issue, the nauseous feeling on tight FOVs is not a good thing. And games play better on a joypad? Absurd.
I could care less about the technical/graphical side of it.
What saddens me, is the gradual "dumbing down" and oversimplification of games made primarily with the console in mind first, then ported to PC. Basically, the disappearance of so many great games, largely because the publisher asks, "Would this hold the interest of a 17 year old with a gamepad?" If not, don't make it.
It hasn't totally disappeared; there's still plenty of great, deep games out there. But the"devolution" and evaporation of deeper, more realistic, more mature, and more satisfying games is saddening, to say the least.
And that's why I said limitations of *current* consoles have nothing to do with whether the game has save anywhere.
I think a great many designers working on the PC have never understood that save systems are a part of game design, and that plopping in save anywhere is a design decision (usually a bad one). Designers working on consoles are ahead in that regard. That said, the bulk of all designers fail in usability since they don't provide suspend save (which is orthogonal to game design and therefore should be in every game).
Um, Architecture may be "Similar" but different OS and 7 years of hardware, not to mention thousands of different configurations mean that PC Platforms and Console platforms are/can be as different as night and day. Consoles have a hand full of configurations. PCs have almost unlimited. Understand that a different Motherboard can make all the difference in the world. Not to mention what version of device drivers you have running or what generation (or maker) of GPU. If you think that simple code changes are all it takes, you do not understand the complexity at all.PC to XBox1 or vice versa would have generally been easy as the architectures were the same.