Constitutional? Louisiana about to pass law requiring 10 Commandments be displayed in public schools

[trenchfoot]

The idea that religion in the US is being "silenced" is a massive joke, particular Christianity.

Reminds me of a couple middle-aged white dudes (as I am) complaining about how they are being prejudiced against in today's world. Cry me a fucking river.

What it is is that some groups have been on top for so long that having to be on equal footing feels like slavery IMO.

Nobody is stopping Christians from worshipping, unless you count some of them banning gay ministers or whatever.

Nobody is stopping Christians from being involved in politics, in fact I feel politicians feel compelled to trumpet they are church-goers in order to get elected. When's the last time we had an admitted atheist for President?

What we should stop is religious people making their religions part of the law of the land. As religious as our country was, the founders at least saw the wisdom of separation of church and state. It should stay the hell out of public schools. I'm not for stopping some Christian kid from learning all the mythology they want outside of school or in some private school--and I don't want some religion jamming their beliefs into my own kid in the school that my tax money pays for. That seems fair to me, live and let live, do your own thing in the appropriate place--yet that isn't enough for some of them. It's not good enough to have their own faith, you have to have it too. I think we all know why that is. $$$$

Totally agree with you and others in this regard. In answer to what end they seek, it seems that transforming our nation into a theocracy would be their inevitable goal under the principle of "you just can't have a half-ass Christian Republic (in name only). It needs to be a FULL-ass Christian Republic to satisfy God's Will (as they interpret it)." I just hope they aren't planning to do that the way Iran's clerics stepped into the vacuum created by Pahlavi's demise. I'm certain that many of them think with God on their side, it's inevitable that they would win no matter what it takes to make it happen.

This idea that the church is under threat is rather dubious and disingenuous in that it's the same ploy politicians like Trump and the GOP exploit to gear up their people into a defensive mindset thus ensuring their survivability as an entity that's been given a purpose, although their party's purpose has devolved into becoming a search for an religiously infected authoritarian state where the minority party can rule over the majority, where one man under their God's supervision (the clerics) can rule the world.

 

[Maxima1]

Simple question. Is this Constitutional? Ramifications when it becomes law?

Mandatory display of the 10 Commandments in public schools.

There’s nothing wrong with it if Democrats want diversity statements.

The idea that religion in the US is being "silenced" is a massive joke, particular Christianity.

I do find it funny Christianity gets tons of heat and acrimony, while Islam there is sympathy towards it when it’s even worse. It’s partly a dumb spite thing like your following statements on race.

Reminds me of a couple middle-aged white dudes (as I am) complaining about how they are being prejudiced against in today's world. Cry me a fucking river.

Yeah, they don't penalize the guy below but whichever Asians and white people are near the margins for consideration (see quote below to understand who these are more likely to be). So this is why a lot of whites with affluent backgrounds/lineages and older whites (already established careers) support the budding DEI/AA racist policies because they don't think they'll be burdened. "Interest convergence" is the one CRT tenet that I think has a nugget of truth.

"But it will appear that the institution of slavery has produced not only heathenish, degraded, miserable slaves, but it produces a class of white people who are, by universal admission, more heathenish, degraded, and miserable. The institution of slavery has accomplished the double feat, in America, not only of degrading and brutalising her black working classes, but of producing, notwithstanding a fertile soil, and abundant room, a poor white population as degraded and brutal as ever existed in any of the most crowded districts of Europe."

What it is is that some groups have been on top for so long that having to be on equal footing feels like slavery IMO.

As stated above, the top people in the group largely don't get penalized; it's at the margins. If they actually penalized whites based on their theory of a "400 year head start", then DEI/AA would have been dead on arrival, haha. Whites also aren’t the top group, and they do better than blacks for the same reason why Jews and Asians do better than the white population. For obvious reasons that I shouldn't have to spell out, Jewish overrepresentation is exempted even though that contradicts their racist idea that every group is supposed to have same proportionality to the population.

 

[Ajay]

Going back to the OG topic. I don't really have a dog in this fight. My wife and I would rather support Catholic schools and make them better (they often aren't doing so well in either traditional subjects or in religious formation). The establishment clause is kind of wonky, as we've often seen in the US Constitution. I grabbed this off of the US Gov site for federal courts:

Today, what constitutes an "establishment of religion" is often governed under the three-part test set forth by the U.S. Supreme Court in Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602 (1971). Under the "Lemon" test, government can assist religion only if (1) the primary purpose of the assistance is secular, (2) the assistance must neither promote nor inhibit religion, and (3) there is no excessive entanglement between church and state.

These are many other challenges that make up case law, but in this one, "excessive" is a fairly hard bit to actually determine - at least I would think so.

I imagine this goes to the state's supreme court - is that correct?

 

[APU_Fusion]

Going back to the OG topic. I don't really have a dog in this fight. My wife and I would rather support Catholic schools and make them better (they often aren't doing so well in either traditional subjects or in religious formation). The establishment clause is kind of wonky, as we've often seen in the US Constitution. I grabbed this off of the US Gov site for federal courts:


These are many other challenges that make up case law, but in this one, "excessive" is a fairly hard bit to actually determine - at least I would think so.

I imagine this goes to the state's supreme court - is that correct?

Those Ten Commandments sure are secular in origin. Mind boggling. /s

 

[Fenixgoon]

Those Ten Commandments sure are secular in origin. Mind boggling. /s

hey if i display something in my house or on my property, that doesn't necessarily mean i support it. it's just kinda there. like decor.. don't you make any inferences about that trump jesus picture, the confederate flag, or nazi memorabilia /s

 

[IronWing]

I missed the bit about Pius X. Pius X was a lunatic who did everything he could to stomp out any vestige of the Enlightenment from the Catholic Church. It took Vat II to clean up his mess. To put things in perspective, the Panzer Pope was a reformer at Vat II. If you're a fan of Pius X, you're in the Steve Bannon camp of Catholicism.

 

[brycejones]

I missed the bit about Pius X. Pius X was a lunatic who did everything he could to stomp out any vestige of the Enlightenment from the Catholic Church. It took Vat II to clean up his mess. To put things in perspective, the Panzer Pope was a reformer at Vat II. If you're a fan of Pious X, you're in the Steve Bannon camp of Catholicism.

That’s pretty obvious from his cheerleading African and Us bishops who are generally hateful shit bags.

 

[thilanliyan]

We all knew that there were some pedophile priests.

@Ajay Did you guys do anything about it? I sincerely hope you did.

EDIT: ***crickets***...I guess you didn't. This is my problem with religious people, they're almost all hypocrites, especially the fervent ones. Enough time to study scriptures and tell everyone else about it, but no time to root out pedophiles. I've met many more "godly" atheists than I have religious people.

 

[Ajay]

I missed the bit about Pius X. Pius X was a lunatic who did everything he could to stomp out any vestige of the Enlightenment from the Catholic Church. It took Vat II to clean up his mess. To put things in perspective, the Panzer Pope was a reformer at Vat II. If you're a fan of Pius X, you're in the Steve Bannon camp of Catholicism.

Obs, you are free to have your own opinions, but if you think I am in the Steve Bannon camp of Catholicism, you are way off.

 

[Moonbeam]

Totally agree with you and others in this regard. In answer to what end they seek, it seems that transforming our nation into a theocracy would be their inevitable goal under the principle of "you just can't have a half-ass Christian Republic (in name only). It needs to be a FULL-ass Christian Republic to satisfy God's Will (as they interpret it)." I just hope they aren't planning to do that the way Iran's clerics stepped into the vacuum created by Pahlavi's demise. I'm certain that many of them think with God on their side, it's inevitable that they would win no matter what it takes to make it happen.

This idea that the church is under threat is rather dubious and disingenuous in that it's the same ploy politicians like Trump and the GOP exploit to gear up their people into a defensive mindset thus ensuring their survivability as an entity that's been given a purpose, although their party's purpose has devolved into becoming a search for an religiously infected authoritarian state where the minority party can rule over the majority, where one man under their God's supervision (the clerics) can rule the world.

The only thing that is under threat and it is under threat for everybody is the fear there is some ism out there that will expose and replace whatever ism you believe in that makes you feel valuable as a person because, in fact you do not and that losing faith in it's absolute worth will cast you into the hell you went through as a child having whatever stupidity you call sacred beaten into you by fear of rejection, loss of love and protection when you were helpless and vulnerable.

Sadly, we can switch hats at the drop of one, a Christian one day an Atheist the next, a Jew a reformed Jew etc etc etc, conversion from one ism to the next, turning against old friends, and always to avoid the underlying issue, the feeling one is worthless.

"Look at me and my beautiful peacock feathers, you worthless piece of shit." This is how we live our lives, victims of not having the respect we feel we deserve because we always manifest what we feel. We are psychologically driven to act out how we really feel and the worse you feel the more disgust you will feel and the more disgusting you will appear.

 

[HomerJS]

There’s nothing wrong with it if Democrats want diversity statements.



I do find it funny Christianity gets tons of heat and acrimony, while Islam there is sympathy towards it when it’s even worse. It’s partly a dumb spite thing like your following statements on race.



Yeah, they don't penalize the guy below but whichever Asians and white people are near the margins for consideration (see quote below to understand who these are more likely to be). So this is why a lot of whites with affluent backgrounds/lineages and older whites (already established careers) support the budding DEI/AA racist policies because they don't think they'll be burdened. "Interest convergence" is the one CRT tenet that I think has a nugget of truth.

"But it will appear that the institution of slavery has produced not only heathenish, degraded, miserable slaves, but it produces a class of white people who are, by universal admission, more heathenish, degraded, and miserable. The institution of slavery has accomplished the double feat, in America, not only of degrading and brutalising her black working classes, but of producing, notwithstanding a fertile soil, and abundant room, a poor white population as degraded and brutal as ever existed in any of the most crowded districts of Europe."

As stated above, the top people in the group largely don't get penalized; it's at the margins. If they actually penalized whites based on their theory of a "400 year head start", then DEI/AA would have been dead on arrival, haha. Whites also aren’t the top group, and they do better than blacks for the same reason why Jews and Asians do better than the white population. For obvious reasons that I shouldn't have to spell out, Jewish overrepresentation is exempted even though that contradicts their racist idea that every group is supposed to have same proportionality to the population.

Sympathy to Islam? Do you remember the bullshit panic over Sharia Law?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Sympathy to Islam? Do you remember the bullshit panic over Sharia Law?

I’m sympathetic to people who don’t want to push their views onto others they fear and violence yet live under that fear and violence . Sometimes you find people like that in religion, sometimes.

 

[Stokely]

I have even less "sympathy" toward Islam than I do Christianity, if that's possible. Not a hell of a lot of differences though to an outsider. Incredible intolerance toward others, keeping women in their place, bigotry against gays, knee jerk anger for any insults given against it, and so on. "We are the chosen way, all others are pretenders." Yeah, that sounds rational when you look around the world and see a bunch of other similar religions/sects all saying the same damn thing. What a silly bunch of nonsense.

But again, if people keep it in their churches and don't bother me with it or try to influence the rest of us with your morals and beliefs, it's all good. My relatives gave up on me decades ago, and we still have a sort of relationship (we definitely also do not talk politics!) Religions and religious types aren't satisfied with this of course, so it's not all good.

 

[HomerJS]

People need to remember this...

 

[Paratus]

People need to remember this...
View attachment 99909

This is why I want the government to enforce people’s religious laws on them - all of them. If people don’t like it they can register as agnostic/atheist or church of the FSM.

 

[APU_Fusion]

I have even less "sympathy" toward Islam than I do Christianity, if that's possible. Not a hell of a lot of differences though to an outsider. Incredible intolerance toward others, keeping women in their place, bigotry against gays, knee jerk anger for any insults given against it, and so on. "We are the chosen way, all others are pretenders." Yeah, that sounds rational when you look around the world and see a bunch of other similar religions/sects all saying the same damn thing. What a silly bunch of nonsense.

But again, if people keep it in their churches and don't bother me with it or try to influence the rest of us with your morals and beliefs, it's all good. My relatives gave up on me decades ago, and we still have a sort of relationship (we definitely also do not talk politics!) Religions and religious types aren't satisfied with this of course, so it's not all good.

Uhm, are you are talking about Christianity or Islam in this post? It seems the same. 😛

 

[ch33zw1z]

Uhm, are you are talking about Christianity or Islam in this post? It seems the same. 😛

Two sides of the same draconian coin.

 

[pmv]

Sympathy to Islam? Do you remember the bullshit panic over Sharia Law?

I have no idea what that Maxima1 guy is on about. I certainly must have missed Trump's attempt to ban immigration from Christian countries. The US is not Iran or Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, Muslims have negligible power in the country.

Though it does sometimes seem to me as if US politics (and, perhaps, depressingly, politics everywhere, to an increasing degree) is largely a multi-polar fight between different privileged groups defending their different types of privilege - upper-middle class professional technocrats vs rich plutocrats vs lower-middle-class/working class white/Christian supremacists.

All jostling for position and each defending their respective corners.

In particular liberalism is not really concerned with abstractions like equality and justice (as it pretends to be), so much as defending the self-interest of that upper-middle-class credentialed technocrat demographic (I think that's why liberals put so much emphasis on credentials and 'expert' status - privileged access to knowledge and education and the structures that define the 'professions' is the basis of their particular form of power and the way they try to look after their self-interest).

Trumpist populism in turn represents those less upper-class, but definitely white, Christian types, who are largely concerned with racial and cultural/religious privileges. While the plutocrats play the two of them off against each other to protect their own place at the top.

Those who don't fall into those three groups are too busy trying to survive, while having very little power, to be much of a force in politics.

 

[Stokely]

The hilarious part is that Trump is about as religious as I am...less so, if you look at the spirit of things like the 10 commandments, which I tend to believe in and try to follow (minus the deity part).

He's just soaking up the adulation and of course the support of Christians, particularly Evangelicals, which is also hilarious. He's found a huge group of people that loves his hateful bullying shtick, who are all into authoritarianism, and sees him as Big Daddy lite right behind God and Jesus.

Some of these aholes in states like LA, TX and FL (Desantis), they are more of the real deal. Which is hardly some endorsement of character. Real Christian or Fake Christian, in the end its the same.

 

[Ajay]

People need to remember this...
View attachment 99909

Fair. So long as we can vote according to our principles and advocate or oppose laws based our principles like you do. As opposed to those who thinks we shouldn't because our principles are based on "religious views" having nothing to do with secular government (or such other bs).

 

[Ajay]

This is why I want the government to enforce people’s religious laws on them - all of them.

I think you mean + civil laws. Murdering someone means I have to go to confession and do an appropriate penance. The appropriate penance now is to turn myself into the police. But then we have a quandry.

 

[brycejones]

[

Fair. So long as we can vote according to our principles and advocate or oppose laws based our principles like you do. As opposed to those who thinks we shouldn't because our principles are based on "religious views" having nothing to do with secular government (or such other bs).

You still seem very confused.

 

[sdifox]

I think you mean + civil laws. Murdering someone means I have to go to confession and do an appropriate penance. The appropriate penance now is to turn myself into the police. But then we have a quandry.

LoL you committed a cardinal sin by your own standards but you think doing a penance is good enough?

 

[pmv]

Fair. So long as we can vote according to our principles and advocate or oppose laws based our principles like you do. As opposed to those who thinks we shouldn't because our principles are based on "religious views" having nothing to do with secular government (or such other bs).

I have no idea what your point is. Has anyone said you should be prevented from voting or expressing opinions about laws? Has anyone suggested making it illegal for you to vote?

You can vote or advocate or oppose laws, and others can argue against you or point out that you have no convincing argument for your advocacy or opposition that doesn't depend on appeals to a faith that they don't share. What exactly is it you are complaining about?

Are you objecting to anti-hate-speech laws, that might prevent you from, say, advocating for laws that would actively harm other groups? I'm not sure to what extent such laws even exist in the US. Can you give an example?

 

[thilanliyan]

LoL you committed a cardinal sin by your own standards but you think doing a penance is good enough?

This is how religious people work..."ooopsie....I'll just ask for forgiveness and it's all good".