Constitutional question

[nick1985]

Article 1, section 8 lists the powers congress has.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8

Where does it say they can do anything like a required universal healthcare plan? I dont see anything even remotely close to healthcare in their powers, so according to the 10th amendment, shouldnt that decision be left up to individual states?

Granted I know it passed, but I just cant wrap my head around this constitutional question.

Before someone claims "welfare!!" in this line:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

remember, welfare back then did NOT mean what it does now, and in that sentence its referring to the safety of the nation.

Anyway, I'd like to hear what others think.

No trolling :awe:

 

[nageov3t]

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

there?

 

[IronWing]

This is already being discussed in two other threads, both of which are right on top.

 

[Proprioceptive]

there?

"Welfare in today's context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution."

Did you even read your own link?

 

[Carmen813]

It doesn't say much about having an Air Force or fighting a war that isn't declared either. It also pretty explicitly says you can't lock people up and throw away the key before giving them a trial. Look into that for me, will yah?

*Edit* To clarify, and not make my post totally trollish, I'll add a bit more. My point was that a lot of things our federal government does are not explicitly stated in the Constitution. Both parties are guilty of this process.

 

[Zebo]

This ship has long sailed. Welcome to 1936. Almost everything congress does these days is unconstitutional. Read up on packing the courts and decisions, under duress, that finally allowed gov't to do whatever on using general welfare and commerce clause.


Read New deal goes to court section.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary_Reorganization_Bill_of_1937

 

[nobodyknows]

I always thought the tightie righties were of the mind that majority ruled and the constitution was nothing but "a piece of paper'?

My but how times have changed.

 

[nick1985]

there?

Click on welfare in your quote. Welfare back then does NOT mean what it does today.

 

[nageov3t]

Click on welfare in your quote. Welfare back then does NOT mean what it does today.

Welfare
welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [<ME wel faren, to fare well] Source: AHD

 

[nick1985]

So a line that reads:

provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States

means that congress can impose required health insurance on the entire nation?


rofl

 

[nick1985]

I always thought the tightie righties were of the mind that majority ruled and the constitution was nothing but "a piece of paper'?

My but how times have changed.

Who said that? If you think Bush, you would be wrong. Snopes busted that long ago.

 

[Zebo]

Welfare
welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [<ME wel faren, to fare well] Source: AHD

Thomas Jefferson explained the latter general welfare clause for the United States: “[T]he laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They [Congress] are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose.”[5]

 

[Capt Caveman]

So, Social Security and Medicare are also unconstitutional?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

So, Social Security and Medicare are also unconstitutional?

There is zero doubt that they are at odds with the Constitution as written and intended.

 

[her209]

So, Social Security and Medicare are also unconstitutional?

The Air Force and funding thereof is also unconstitutional.

 

[Patranus]

The Air Force and funding thereof is also unconstitutional.

Why do you think that it was originally part of the army and navy?

Just needed to wait until FDR eviscerated the Constitution before Truman could create the air force as its own entity.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Congress can do practically anything under the commerce clause. Insurance companies transact business across state lines. Hospital conduct commerce across state lines. Thus, Congress can regulate under commerce clause.

 

[Patranus]

Congress can do practically anything under the commerce clause. Insurance companies transact business across state lines. Hospital conduct commerce across state lines. Thus, Congress can regulate under commerce clause.

Why can't I smoke medical marijuana if it is grown in my state and I pay for it out of pocket?

Because somehow the commerce clause is used to regulate things that have a negative on interstate commerce.

The current interpretation of the commerce clause and the election of Senators by a general election (They no longer represent the state) were the complete end to states rights.

 

[Throckmorton]

Article 1, section 8 lists the powers congress has.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8

Where does it say they can do anything like a required universal healthcare plan? I dont see anything even remotely close to healthcare in their powers, so according to the 10th amendment, shouldnt that decision be left up to individual states?

Granted I know it passed, but I just cant wrap my head around this constitutional question.

Before someone claims "welfare!!" in this line:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

remember, welfare back then did NOT mean what it does now, and in that sentence its referring to the safety of the nation.

Anyway, I'd like to hear what others think.

No trolling :awe:

Look up welfare in the dictionary. Healthcare reform provides for the common defence and general welfare. F-22 Raptors provide for the common defence and general welfare. The interstate highway system provides for the common defence and general welfare.

 

[jpeyton]

Where does it say they can do anything like a required universal healthcare plan?

Congress passed Medicare and Social Security. Where does it say they can do anything like that?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Article 1, section 8 lists the powers congress has.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8

Where does it say they can do anything like a required universal healthcare plan? I dont see anything even remotely close to healthcare in their powers, so according to the 10th amendment, shouldnt that decision be left up to individual states?

Granted I know it passed, but I just cant wrap my head around this constitutional question.

Before someone claims "welfare!!" in this line:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

remember, welfare back then did NOT mean what it does now, and in that sentence its referring to the safety of the nation.

Anyway, I'd like to hear what others think.

No trolling :awe:

The general welfare clause relates only to the raising of taxes for use to the general welfare. Therefore the federal 'may' have power to offer it's own healthcare (paid through taxation), but it does NOT have the authority to require non-tax payments to a third party. Thomas Jefferson, Chief Justice Marshall, and Associate Justice Story have all agreed on this issue.

It's my opinion that this law is invalid on five points:

1. Government, at any level, lacks the authority to compel participation in a private enterprise.
2. No authority is granted the federal government to intrude on an issue that belongs to the states as per the 10th amendment.
3. Control over our own selves is a personal matter, and cannot be delegate to the state or nation without express consent of the governed, which has not been given.
4. Moral objections to government programs must be given an exemption, as in religious tax exemptions, conscientious objector status, and other examples to be named.
5. Offering religious exemption for certain established religions only is a violation of the 1st, and 14th amendment.

I'm still formulating them, but in general I believe those will be my objections. I will not be purchasing insurance, nor will I pay the tax fines.

 

[her209]

Congress passed Medicare and Social Security. Where does it say they can do anything like that?

Congress also passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Where does it say the federal government has a right to mandate that businesses can't discriminate based on race?

Congress also passed the American with Disabilities Act of 1990. Where does it say the federal government has a right to mandate that businesses can't discriminate based on disability when hiring?

 

[Patranus]

Look up welfare in the dictionary. Healthcare reform provides for the common defence and general welfare. F-22 Raptors provide for the common defence and general welfare. The interstate highway system provides for the common defence and general welfare.

If that was the case why did the federal government have to amend the Constitution to implement prohibition and amend it again to eliminate prohibition?

Couldn't the federal government simply say that alcohol is bad and it is in the "general welfare" of the United States as its justification?

 

[sMiLeYz]

Requiring Car insurance is unconstitutional.

Women voting is unconstitutional.

Civil rights act is unconstitutional.

Healthcare isn't.

The constitution stands as a living document, it's suppose to be a guideline. Progress is a bitch ain't it?

 

[Mr. Lennon]

The horse is dead.