Consumer Reports calls air purifier ?unhealthy?

[Stark]

Originally posted by: FlyLice
err how about the living air classic. I have one of those.

it does the same exact thing, only it costs $600.

hopefully they'll stop advertising that thing on the radio 24x7 now that they're shown to be far less healthy than originally portrayed.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Eli
Do you not understand that ozone has no place in your home? Do you not understand that by running the ionic breeze, you may be removing harmless dust yet replacing it with a carcinogen, a source of oxygen free radicals?

The issue isn't it's filtration capability anymore, IMO. I've always said that it will be better than nothing, but in light of this ozone information, that is NOT the case.

Don't you understand it doesn't put off much O3? Do you think I care that one of my rooms has a tiny bit more O3 that the others? Maybe I'll die instantly when I get home from all the O3.

There are lots of things that are bad in this world. Sunlight can give you skin cancer. Don't tell me you hide in a closet all day. Care to tell me how bad breathing exhaust fumes are? Maybe you shouldn't drive a car or mow your lawn. People claim cell phones cause problems, but I'll bet you have one of those too. Ever drink alcohol, I heard that's bad too. What's your excuse?

The issue was about filtration. You're just changing your attack, because you know you can't win.

 

[Daaavo]

Air cleaners: The truth behind the accolades

Ads for air cleaners from Sharper Image and Oreck include a Seal of Truth from the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America (AAFA), a Washington, D.C.-based group. Sharper Image ads also display a Seal of Approval from the British Allergy Foundation, now known as Allergy UK, and refer to university studies claimed to support Sharper Image's air-cleaner claims.

As we found, some university studies were funded by the manufacturer. We also found that another seal on some air cleaners addresses the volume of clean air those machines deliver, though it doesn't tell the whole story.

What seals don't tell you. The AAFA's Seal of Truth program is open to manufacturers who submit a $5,000 application fee. According to the AAFA, companies are asked to submit ?independent? research for review by a panel of experts, who determine whether a product's performance meets its claims. If the panel says it does, manufacturers can apply the seal to that product for two years. Fewer than 12 allergy-related products, including vacuums and cleaning products, have the seal; Sharper Image's Ionic Breeze and Oreck's XL are the only air cleaners with it.

The AAFA states on its Web site that its expert panel includes M.D.s, Ph.D.s, and Masters of Public Health. Michael Tringale, an AAFA spokesman, would not identify its experts, citing confidentiality concerns. Nor would Tringale or Sharper Image show us research submitted as part of the seal program. But the AAFA's literature discloses two points that the air-cleaner ads don't mention.

One is that its seal is not an endorsement or statement of clinical efficacy. Yet the words on the seal for Sharper Image's Ionic Breeze, above, imply otherwise.

The other is that its program isn't a comparison but, rather, ?helps consumers distinguish truthful product claims relating to asthma and allergies, regardless of how products compare to each other.? In an interview, Tringale said that AAFA panel members saw a Consumer Reports air-cleaners report that found the Ionic Breeze ineffective, but granted the seal anyway. ?Because we aren't rating in comparison,? Tringale said, ?we asked, does the research stand up? And indeed it did.? But when Sharper Image submitted studies to Consumers Union, the nonprofit publisher of Consumer Reports, they didn't stand up.

Allergy UK's Seal of Approval program is somewhat like the AAFA's, though it says its seal is an endorsement. A manufacturer submits a fee for new testing by an ?independent scientific consultant? at the University College Worcester or a review of its own independent tests. According to the British group, a 39-member panel of experts sets specific protocols for each product.

Allergy UK would not disclose detailed information about its review protocol. What's more, the foundation states on its Web site that its endorsement does not mean that a product will necessarily reduce an allergy sufferer's symptoms.

Endorsement programs between business and nonprofit groups raise ethical concerns. A 1994 study commissioned by the American Cancer Society concluded that the use of its logo is seen as endorsement. In 1997 the American Medical Association withdrew from an agreement allowing its logo to be used on Sunbeam blood-pressure monitors and other devices amid conflict-of-interest concerns. That withdrawal resulted in a nearly $10 million breach-of-contract settlement with Sunbeam.

By 1999 such programs led 16 state attorneys general to issue a report warning that their implied product endorsements could ?mislead, deceive or confuse the public.? Such programs remain numerous. But some organizations acknowledge concerns. The American Lung Association says its national board comprises physicians and others who agree to its conflict-of-interest policy, which excludes directors from companies with which it has partnerships. At the time this report was written, the AAFA's Web site showed that its board included representatives of pharmaceutical, medical-device, and air-filter manufacturers.

What the studies don't say. Studies touted in Sharper Image ads came under scrutiny last year in the company's lawsuit against Consumers Union. Court testimony and documents revealed information absent from the ads. For one, documents showed that a researcher had been receiving a $6,000 monthly retainer from Sharper Image for research used by the company to support the sale of its Ionic Breeze. The company also provided research grants to a university professor and author of two reports about the Ionic Breeze prepared at Sharper Image's request, and compensated others whose research was cited.

One study was deemed irrelevant by Consumers Union because the Ionic Breeze was used as a particle collector, not as an air-cleaning device. To put that difference into perspective, you can collect the dust particles that settle out of the air and onto a tabletop in a room, but that doesn't make the table an air cleaner.

In November 2004 federal Judge Maxine Chesney dismissed Sharper Image's suit, holding that there was no reasonable probability that Consumers Union's findings were false and that Sharper Image's studies provided no basis for challenging those findings. (See Sharper Image lawsuit ends.)

What's in the numbers. Many models, including the Friedrich and Whirlpool, have clean-air delivery-rate (CADR) certifications. Seals are issued by the Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers (AHAM). A manufacturer must submit its line to independent lab tests or have its results verified by an AHAM-designated lab. The seal lists CADR results and the room size that a model can effectively clean. It also notes that a higher CADR is better. While the numbers are a good guide to an air cleaner's effectiveness, you must check one of AHAM's Web sites (www.cadr.org) to compare models.

What's a good rating? You'll see numbers from 10 to 450. Generally, we judge CADR values above 350 excellent and those below 75 poor. Air cleaners with a CADR of 10 or less are barely distinguishable from gravity at removing airborne particles.

 

[DrPizza]

Personally, I rarely trust the levels set forth as "safe" because often, it depends to much on specific conditions that can't be duplicated in a lab.

But, ozone is bad. Mmmkay?

Also, someone said above that the particles have to be charged to stick... not true. To understand how it attracts neutral particles, google how a charged balloon sticks to a neutral wall. (or, the neutral wall sticks to the balloon... in this case)

Furthermore, this massive marketing for "cleaner, purer,..." is filled with bullshit to make people think their life is in danger from dust.
While there may be some dangers from dust, there are also dangers from removing all the "dirty" crap from an environment... hence, kids growing up on farms with all the wonderful allergens don't develop asthma nearly as frequently as children living in houses run by neat-freaks. "Virus and bacteria killing soap" is another "sounds wonderful - bad idea" kind of thing. Forgetting for a moment that it also kills the good bacteria (geeez, no one told you that bacteria aren't necessarily bad?), it has the same effect on forming resistant bacteria that abuse/misuse of anti-bacterial drugs has.

Life is about balancing risks. Does anyone know what the risks are involved with 150 parts per billion of ozone (at a distance of 3 feet from your ionizer)?? Sure, studies show that higher ozone levels are linked to higher death rates. Who's dying? People with asthma and lung conditions? Could the ozone be related to smog - related to visibility while driving? Is this necessarily cause and effect, or just a correlation?

And lastly, if my wife paid $350 or more for one of those things, I'd crap my pants. Then, I'd say "honey, return it to the store where you got it. Here. I'll build one for you for about $20." Of course, I could make them and sell them for $50 and make a decent profit, but I'd have to spend a fortune on marketing in order to find enough people gullible enough to think they need them. MOST people don't. I'm sure they benefit a few though.

 

[vital]

Consumer Reports tested a bunch of air purifiers a while back and rated the Sharper Image model last. Sharper Image requested that Consumer Reports retest the models and give a more fair review and Consumer Reports even agreed. They retested all the models and still rated the Sharper Image model poorest so Sharper Image tried to sue Consumer Reports and lost. Now it seems like Consumer Reports is going even further bashing the crappy ionic breezer for tryin sue lol

 

[mooncancook]

someone said above that the particles have to be charged to stick

you are correct, but having it charged will improve its "stickiness" to dust... kind of like water, it sticks dusts very well because water molecules are charged.

anyway i won't be bashing ionic breezers if they are sold for under $50... but for as much as $350, that's like preying on the uninformed and the ignorant rip-off shady business

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: Eli
Do you not understand that ozone has no place in your home? Do you not understand that by running the ionic breeze, you may be removing harmless dust yet replacing it with a carcinogen, a source of oxygen free radicals?

The issue isn't it's filtration capability anymore, IMO. I've always said that it will be better than nothing, but in light of this ozone information, that is NOT the case.

Don't you understand it doesn't put off much O3? Do you think I care that one of my rooms has a tiny bit more O3 that the others? Maybe I'll die instantly when I get home from all the O3.

There are lots of things that are bad in this world. Sunlight can give you skin cancer. Don't tell me you hide in a closet all day. Care to tell me how bad breathing exhaust fumes are? Maybe you shouldn't drive a car or mow your lawn. People claim cell phones cause problems, but I'll bet you have one of those too. Ever drink alcohol, I heard that's bad too. What's your excuse?

The issue was about filtration. You're just changing your attack, because you know you can't win.

Uh, Ok.. Well, if the issue is filtration, then the IB sucks at that, too.

Sure, it's better than nothing. Sure, you can see garbage on the plates.

Listen very carefully. Do you know why the IB isn't a "HEPA" filter? Because it is not a High Efficiency Particulate Air(filter).

With no context to work with, we have nothing.

Your screen door will remove 0.1 micron particles........ very, very, very inefficiently.

I have a 15 dollar 99% (IE: crappy) HEPA filter. Can I see the difference in my room? Of course.

Since they don't publish any numbers with their filter, there is no way to tell.. But I would be willing to bet money that my 15$ HEPA filter that only removes 99% of particles over 1 micron filters better than 3 or 4 negativly charged plates placed 3/4" apart......The filters last 6 months, and are about 10$/ea when you buy 4.

Nobody is trying to tell you that it doesen't work. It does. But so does my screen door. Man, have you ever seen all the dust that builds up on a screen door?!

Without context, it means nothing....

 

[smc13]

What do you mean ozone is harmful?!? These ionic breezes could be darn useful. Load a bunch of them on a hot air balloon, send it up, and presto! we fill the hole in the ozone layer. All we need is a really long extention cord so we could provide power.

 

[dethman]

Originally posted by: isasir
Those things have been known to be crap for awhile now.

 

[jpeyton]

Ozone filters are generally crap for home use.

High CFM Fan + Carbon Pre Filter + True HEPA Filter will clean the air and remove the odors in a good sized bedroom in about 10 minutes. An Ionic Breeze couldn't do the same in 24 hours.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: smc13
What do you mean ozone is harmful?!? These ionic breezes could be darn useful. Load a bunch of them on a hot air balloon, send it up, and presto! we fill the hole in the ozone layer. All we need is a really long extention cord so we could provide power.

When CFCs are released into the atmosphere, they migrate from the lower atmosphere (troposphere), to the upper atmosphere (stratosphere) after about three to five years.

In the stratosphere, the CFCs go through a series of reactions, which include the destruction of ozone.

These reactions begin with the solar rays reacting with the CFCs to produce a reactive chlorine atom. The chlorine reacts with ozone to form chlorine monoxide. Chlorine monoxide then either reacts with nitrogen dioxide to produce chlorine nitrate, or two chlorine monoxides will react to reform reactive chlorine.

Chlorine nitrate does not react with ozone until it reaches Antarctica. There, during the winter the ozone hole forms. The hole is caused by the release of reactive forms of chlorine from chlorine nitrate. The reactions take place on the ice particles and with the small number of solar rays in the region.

We are not talking about a small amount here....

 

[sharkeeper]

Your two Ionic Breezes, supposed "cleaners", are pumping O3, a carcinogen, into the atmosphere of your home. Do you understand what that means?

Ozone is not a carcinogen. It's a very powerful oxidiser that's extremely unstable. It's easily reduced and the byproducts can often be dangerous. While these products don't produce that much ozone, most people leave them on 24/7 in an enclosed space so the accumulative effect is very real.

What do you mean ozone is harmful?!? These ionic breezes could be darn useful. Load a bunch of them on a hot air balloon, send it up, and presto! we fill the hole in the ozone layer. All we need is a really long extention cord so we could provide power.

The solar output responsible for replenishing the ozone layer is much greater than the entire electrical output of every single power plant and vehicle (read: anything that produces electricity!) on the planet.

 

[z0mb13]

sooo my ionic breeze can actually KILL me?

if this is proven, grounds for $$$$ lawsuit in the future






anyon wants to buy a used ionic breeze??

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Are the Elanra models any better than the IB?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: sharkeeper

Your two Ionic Breezes, supposed "cleaners", are pumping O3, a carcinogen, into the atmosphere of your home. Do you understand what that means?

Ozone is not a carcinogen. It's a very powerful oxidiser that's extremely unstable. It's easily reduced and the byproducts can often be dangerous. While these products don't produce that much ozone, most people leave them on 24/7 in an enclosed space so the accumulative effect is very real.

What do you mean ozone is harmful?!? These ionic breezes could be darn useful. Load a bunch of them on a hot air balloon, send it up, and presto! we fill the hole in the ozone layer. All we need is a really long extention cord so we could provide power.

The solar output responsible for replenishing the ozone layer is much greater than the entire electrical output of every single power plant and vehicle (read: anything that produces electricity!) on the planet.

Ah, mybad. I don't know why I was thinking that.

Regardless...

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: Daaavo
Air cleaners: The truth behind the accolades

/snip

Dude, seriously, haven't you been paying attention? Facts are meaningless things only used by lemmings. To obtain the truth you must listen only the unsubstantiated opinion of someone who owns, and loves, the IB.


Lethal

 

[ribbon13]

What the big deal with everyone and O3? Ozone is extremely useful for those that grow pot. ^^ Its very unstable and doesn't last very long anyway. It's also what makes the air smell so good after a thunderstorm. Just limit your direct exposure to it.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: sharkeeper

Your two Ionic Breezes, supposed "cleaners", are pumping O3, a carcinogen, into the atmosphere of your home. Do you understand what that means?

Ozone is not a carcinogen. It's a very powerful oxidiser that's extremely unstable. It's easily reduced and the byproducts can often be dangerous. While these products don't produce that much ozone, most people leave them on 24/7 in an enclosed space so the accumulative effect is very real.

What do you mean ozone is harmful?!? These ionic breezes could be darn useful. Load a bunch of them on a hot air balloon, send it up, and presto! we fill the hole in the ozone layer. All we need is a really long extention cord so we could provide power.

The solar output responsible for replenishing the ozone layer is much greater than the entire electrical output of every single power plant and vehicle (read: anything that produces electricity!) on the planet.

Ah, mybad. I don't know why I was thinking that.

Regardless...

Perhaps because I posted something like that, but I was reffering to the reaction that was quoted about framaldahyde....

 

[GigaCluster]

Heh,

?It is astonishing that Consumers Union would continue its misguided efforts to attack the judgment and experience of millions of Americans who are satisfied with the performance of the Ionic Breeze products,? Wallach said in a statement.

Yes, I am sure that millions of Americans thoroughly tested the product before writing to the company with gushing gratitude. These millions of Americans had good faith that a company that specializes in such products knows what the hell they're doing; don't justify your pathetic products by saying that people buy them.

But then, since when did companies have shame or integrity?

 

[0roo0roo]

yea, year after year its come out as worst of the bunch in consumer reports. course.. 2 million sold..sharper image doesn't give a sh*t as long as the money keeps rolling in.

 

[Chaotic42]

You guys talking about too much ozone are missing the obvious answer. Spray CFC containing products all over the Ionic Breeze a few times every day. If it works for the atmosphere, maybe it will work for your bedroom.

 

[FleshLight]

If anyone cares, Sharper image's lawsuit against CU was thrown out and they had to pay CU ~$500k for their legal fees.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c...rchive/2004/11/10/state1938EST0135.DTL

 

[RossMAN]

Here is an interesting Hot Deals which reminded me of this
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=40&threadid=1587287

 

[RossMAN]

Originally posted by: FleshLight
If anyone cares, Sharper image's lawsuit against CU was thrown out and they had to pay CU ~$500k for their legal fees.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c...rchive/2004/11/10/state1938EST0135.DTL

Thanks for the info and link!

*discreet bump*

 

[Wag]

Open the window. You'll save yourself $200.