Contagion spreading among the vaccinated

[Fanatical Meat]

I'm shocked you guys are still arguing with a clear and obvious disinformation spreading agenda alt.

I agree and disagree. We’ve (not AT society as a whole) has allowed this to simmer using the logic why engage with a troll or crazy person or whatever.
Internet has changed that, search engines have changed that. We should not allow people to spread obvious falsehoods and not push back.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This is something that particularly annoys me. The way anti-lockdown people will invoke 'mental health' to try and pretend they aren't really primarily-concerned with keeping the dividends, profits, and rents flowing in for those who don't have to go out and mix with others to get an income.

Yet we just had several years of 'austerity', with massive cuts to health and social services, in the name of 'balancing the books' and avoiding tax rises, all pushed by the very same people who now insist they are so concerned about people's mental health.

They also, in practice, show far more concern about opening up things like resteaurants and nightclubs and other profit-making businesses than with getting the health-care system working again, including mental heatlh-care.

Wow this is really smart. Thank you for sharing this knowledge.

 

[eikelbijter]

This is something that particularly annoys me. The way anti-lockdown people will invoke 'mental health' to try and pretend they aren't really primarily-concerned with keeping the dividends, profits, and rents flowing in for those who don't have to go out and mix with others to get an income.

Yet we just had several years of 'austerity', with massive cuts to health and social services, in the name of 'balancing the books' and avoiding tax rises, all pushed by the very same people who now insist they are so concerned about people's mental health.

They also, in practice, show far more concern about opening up things like resteaurants and nightclubs and other profit-making businesses than with getting the health-care system working again, including mental heatlh-care.

I never said I'm against lockdowns. All over the world they've been used with various rates of success. In my native Holland it's resulted in FAR lower infection rates than they would have had if not for the lockdowns. Sometimes they makes sense and are more than worth it, sometimes they are not worth it.

I don't own any stock, don't get any dividend, don't even own my own residence let alone one I could collect rent on. If anything I more of a socialist than anything, I'm a musician for goodness' sake! I'm am GRAVELY concerned with the mental state of the United States and all the anger I see and hear everywhere. I've been HORRIFIED by Trump and his mindless followers, but I'm worried about the Left too.

At SOME point we're going to have to get back to normal, and I believe, at least in some places, including LA where I live, we're almost there. I know cases are rising but my prediction, and I could be wrong I know, is that it will not cause a crippling wave for the healthcare system. Instead of arguing if I'm right, let's just wait and see. If I am not, I'll say I was wrong. In order to make this a statement specific enough to be able to objectively judge whether I was correct, I'll put it this way: we are now at 24658 unfortunate deaths. By the end of this year, in LA county, we will be below 30000, and I'd be surprised if we'd be much above 265000, even barring some retroactive adding of cases. I think that for the forseeable future, we will have a small steady number of people succumbing to Covid; in LA county you'll be able to find a few people who die of Covid every day for maybe a year or more.

 

[eikelbijter]

Sprinkled in with the insults was some very valuable info and I thank you for that. So let me see if I get this right.

According to Ellebedy's researchers we should that "SARS-CoV-2 infection would trigger the development of BMPCs — nearly all viral infections do — but there have been signs that severe COVID-19 might disrupt the cells’ formation2. Some early COVID-19 immunity studies also stoked worries, when they found that antibody levels plunged not long after recovery3. "

The result of their work shows that: "As expected, SARS-CoV-2 antibodies plummeted in the four months after infection. But this decline slowed, and up to 11 months after infection, the researchers could still detect antibodies that recognized the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein. " In addition, "In 15 of the 18 bone-marrow samples, the scientists found ultra-low but detectable populations of BMPCs whose formation had been triggered by the individuals’ coronavirus infections 7–8 months before. "

To specify this a little more, there are various antibodies, against various parts of the virus, and some persist longer than others. I learned that those BMPCs keep "trickling" out antibodies inside for instance your bone marrow, possibly for the rest of your life. I assume, so correct me if I'm wrong, that in case of a infection against which they could be useful, the trickle could turn into a stream.

I learned that antibodies against the N protein have much cross-reactivity with seasonal Corona which makes them not very useful to estimate a specific attack rate. I've also learned that antibodies against the N protein are useless, and that they're "associated", or I should probably say their presence is, with higher mortality.

What's more, according to https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01377-8

"Although antiviral T and B cell memory certainly contribute some degree of protection, strong evidence of a protective role for neutralizing serum antibodies exists. "

In looking further into T cell testing, I've also learned that it turns out there are cross-reactivity reactions in those, which would complicate, or perhaps invalidate the ability to use them as a tool for estimating attack rates.

Even after repeatedly asking what THEN would be the best way, I've been shown or taught nothing. Except perhaps, that, if the answer WAS in the paper about life-long immunity, the answer is that we DO know of a very specific antibody or more, that can be detected for life to decidedly prove a previous infection. My question is, would that involve, at least after some time, a sampling of what's in your bone marrow?

I hope you guys understand I'm serious. I want to learn and appreciate you sticking with me in this. There are too many who stop communicating.

 

[soundforbjt]

I'm no longer following this thread
Someone brings nothing to the conversation other than circular arguments and can't appreciate risk vs benefit analysis

Go get vaccinated its the best protection you can get all things considered

That’s his whole purpose.

 

[eikelbijter]

That’s his whole purpose.

I appreciate a risk vs benefit analysis a lot, but thanks!

My purpose is always to learn. I keep an open mind and have actually learned a lot from some of the information shared here. When I try to demonstrate that I have, I get the same old stuff thrown back over and over. Is that the way to help someone learn? By constantly throwing old stuff back in his face, even though his words, and yes, some people DO mean what they say and say what they mean, show he HAS learned?

 

[nickqt]

Sprinkled in with the insults was some very valuable info and I thank you for that. So let me see if I get this right.

According to Ellebedy's researchers we should that "SARS-CoV-2 infection would trigger the development of BMPCs — nearly all viral infections do — but there have been signs that severe COVID-19 might disrupt the cells’ formation2. Some early COVID-19 immunity studies also stoked worries, when they found that antibody levels plunged not long after recovery3. "

The result of their work shows that: "As expected, SARS-CoV-2 antibodies plummeted in the four months after infection. But this decline slowed, and up to 11 months after infection, the researchers could still detect antibodies that recognized the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein. " In addition, "In 15 of the 18 bone-marrow samples, the scientists found ultra-low but detectable populations of BMPCs whose formation had been triggered by the individuals’ coronavirus infections 7–8 months before. "

To specify this a little more, there are various antibodies, against various parts of the virus, and some persist longer than others. I learned that those BMPCs keep "trickling" out antibodies inside for instance your bone marrow, possibly for the rest of your life. I assume, so correct me if I'm wrong, that in case of a infection against which they could be useful, the trickle could turn into a stream.

I learned that antibodies against the N protein have much cross-reactivity with seasonal Corona which makes them not very useful to estimate a specific attack rate. I've also learned that antibodies against the N protein are useless, and that they're "associated", or I should probably say their presence is, with higher mortality.

In looking further into T cell testing, I've also learned that it turns out there are cross-reactivity reactions in those, which would complicate, or perhaps invalidate the ability to use them as a tool for estimating attack rates.

Even after repeatedly asking what THEN would be the best way, I've been shown or taught nothing. Except perhaps, that, if the answer WAS in the paper about life-long immunity, the answer is that we DO know of a very specific antibody or more, that can be detected for life to decidedly prove a previous infection. My question is, would that involve, at least after some time, a sampling of what's in your bone marrow?

I hope you guys understand I'm serious. I want to learn and appreciate you sticking with me in this. There are too many who stop communicating.

Get the vaccine. Wear a mask. Limit unnecessary exposure to other people.

In the same vein as, don't kick yourself in the balls. Don't ram a screwdriver into your eye socket or electric socket. Don't drink drain cleaner.

The same shit everyone who has an IQ above room temperature has been recommending for over a year.

What other graphs and magic tricks would you like performed in order to hear what has been said a thousand times already?

By the way, it's not just that there are less infections, or less people dying.

If you strain a system to it's breaking point, and it breaks, that system is no longer going to function for its other uses.

So, over the past year, shitbag morons have been preaching against lockdowns, wearing masks, and vaccines. This has strained pretty much every hospital in the country. Hospitals are understaffed at all levels and bursting at the seams with "normal sick" patients, and the raging fucking morons who somehow chose not to get a free vaccine, and are now sick with COVID pneumonia like a good fucking shitbag moron in god damn July of 2021.

So, COVID is essentially endemic because shitbag fucking morons chose to be shitbag fucking morons, which has caused our already shit-tier healthcare system to be pushed to the edge of functioning. Another year of this and there won't be anymore nurses to keep "normal sick" patients alive, along with the shitbag fucking morons who are the cause of the healthcare system failing.

Jesus Christ. If it's July 2021 and you're still upset that your way of everyday life is slightly inconvenienced due to a worldwide pandemic, YOU'RE THE FUCKING PLAGUE, and COVID is just a symptom.

 

[eikelbijter]

Jesus Christ. If it's July 2021 and you're still upset that your way of everyday life is slightly inconvenienced due to a worldwide pandemic, YOU'RE THE FUCKING PLAGUE, and COVID is just a symptom.

I am only NOW starting to be able to work, it's still way below were it was when the pandemic hit. I was touring the world with a couple of jazz artists, finally making enough to not count every penny at age 49. It was my choice to give up a promising career as an engineer, but don't tell me my way of life was "slightly inconvenienced".

Also, I have already said that lockdowns are a very powerful weapon against spread, and have proven to be quite effective in multiple places. I never railed against vaccines, no matter how much you guys want to put me in that box. I just question the worth of vaccinating those who had Covid, or kids. That's it.

.

 

[eikelbijter]

How can I convince you guys that I'm not a moron, and really WANT to learn? I'm afraid that even my patience has not convinced you and you have written me off like you do with so many of your fellow citizens. 50% Americans who don't get the Flu shot are "selfish motherfuckers". You just called half your brothers and sisters a name, accused them of something without knowing anything about them. I guess since nobody wants to tell me if anything is incorrect in my LAST post, not judging on what I said, but only what I say specifically there so we could have some common ground, I bid you farewell. It's been unpleasant but informative, reminded me little of the teaching styles of some of my old professors.

I will from now on base my words on my better understanding of the matter. I will also go back to all my posts in this thread and read them back, in the light of all the new things I've learned.

Be well

 

[ivwshane]

How can I convince you guys that I'm not a moron, and really WANT to learn? I'm afraid that even my patience has not convinced you and you have written me off like you do with so many of your fellow citizens. 50% Americans who don't get the Flu shot are "selfish motherfuckers". You just called half your brothers and sisters a name, accused them of something without knowing anything about them. I guess since nobody wants to tell me if anything is incorrect in my LAST post, not judging on what I said, but only what I say specifically there so we could have some common ground, I bid you farewell. It's been unpleasant but informative, reminded me little of the teaching styles of some of my old professors.

I will from now on base my words on my better understanding of the matter. I will also put all my posts in this thread and read them back, in the light of all the new things I've learned.

Be well

So you don’t understand that getting vaccinated not only severely lessens your chances of severe covid symptoms but it also more than likely makes your symptoms more like the flu, temporary and not life threatening and not chronic? You also don’t understand that having more people vaccinated also reduces the chances of overwhelming our healthcare system and that it allows us to get back to normal without the fear of unnecessary deaths happening?

Is this new information to you? To put it another way, what exactly do you have to lose by getting vaccinated? Give me some concrete losses you will have by getting vaccinated.

 

[Stokely]

Man, things are ramping up really quickly here in FLA, central area (probably worse in the south).

A close relative works in an ICU and said it's now as bad as it ever got before...and the rate at which people are coming in is far faster. The ages are lower, in the case of people that need oxygen (but not ICU) there have been some people younger than 20. One mid-30s and one mid-40s are probably not going to make it he said, no previous conditions (other than obesity, which may indeed be a factor). One vaccinated person has died there, but apparently he did have other issues. Almost everyone getting 0xygen or being intubated is unvaccinated.

His hospital is basically full, the much, much larger Advent Health system's ICU is full and that's a problem as it accepts spillover from smaller hospitals. One such in Brevard is putting patients in ER rooms, which is exactly the thing feared from the beginning--if hospitals overflow, then people can't get treatment for anything.

The thing you don't hear much about is that covid patients average much longer in the ICU than normal (two months vs two weeks). One poor guy has been in there three months. Not sure if Delta changes that, but it's definitely putting more people in the ICU at a greater rate than before.

Hold onto your hats. Delta is a different beast.

And of course if I told all this to half the country, I'd either be a liar or listening to a liar, because hospitals are empty. All those doctors making money from this don't you know (which is inane and basically the opposite of the truth)

The latest info is showing that vaccinated people MAY be spreading the virus as much as unvaccinated--which is really freaking bad news for the unvaccinated. Along with this is the news that Delta may be as contagious as chicken pox, which means its WAY more contagious than the original strain. You'd have to be nuts to not be vaccinated, unless you live in a cabin in the mountains. I know a couple people who got long covid, months later they still aren't the same, so even if you survive you may have long-term issues. Compare that to some quack on youtube trying to make a buck by scaring people. If there's a hint of evidence the vaccines might cause issues, let's talk...but "I don't know" doesn't cut it. "Changing your DNA" is straight up looney tunes.

 

[eikelbijter]

So you don’t understand that getting vaccinated not only severely lessens your chances of severe covid symptoms but it also more than likely makes your symptoms more like the flu, temporary and not life threatening and not chronic? You also don’t understand that having more people vaccinated also reduces the chances of overwhelming our healthcare system and that it allows us to get back to normal without the fear of unnecessary deaths happening?

Is this new information to you? To put it another way, what exactly do you have to lose by getting vaccinated? Give me some concrete losses you will have by getting vaccinated.

Of course I know that vaccines work in preventing severe disease and are virtually hundred percent effective in preventing death. I've said it from the beginning and the fact that I have to "clarify" that again just shows that at least some of you are reading things into what I'm saying because it allows you to put me in THAT box.

I also know and have acknowledged the vaccines have prevented many deaths, more in some places than others, but MANY thousands in the US for instance.

Again, I've recommended multiple of my dearest friends to get the vaccine. I've stated it multiple times and just don't understand why you guys refuse to believe me.

What I also believe is that in Los Angeles county the chances of another wave "overwhelming" our healthcare system AT THIS POINT is VERY small. I've worn my mask everywhere I was supposed to for 14 months, stayed home most of the time. I've supported lockdowns at various points in time. At this point I believe it's time to open up; for me, the cost benefit analysis of the restrictions breaks down. It's a sensitive subject but we have to agree on an acceptable risk together, or we won't have a society.

Finally, and the whole moral aspect of this, in my opinion, is a large discussion on its own, which I wasn't looking for here but got sucked into. My understanding was, and thanks to some help interpreting the relevant study, that natural immunity is real and long lasting. In my opinion, vaccinating those who had the disease is a waste of money, as is vaccinating kids. Now if those or their parents WANT to vaccinate I say more power to you. I'm not against the vaccine.

But I have a real problem with the lack of acknowledgement of those in the know, that this will end in places like LA VERY soon, barring a new variant that escapes immunity from vaccine and/or natural infection, regardless of how many MORE get the vaccine. Yes, more people are going to die, but the vast majority have made the decision themselves about whether to take that chance.

One last thing, and this is important. If I had been offered this vaccine in March last year, I would have taken it. Hell, if we had evidence that vaccinated people can't get infected and more importantly infect others, and I hadn't had Covid, I would take it now!

 

[eikelbijter]

The latest info is showing that vaccinated people MAY be spreading the virus as much as unvaccinated--which is really freaking bad news for the unvaccinated. Along with this is the news that Delta may be as contagious as chicken pox, which means its WAY more contagious than the original strain.

Florida had relatively low infection rates compared to LA, combined with a far larger number of unvaccinated so yeah, this is to be expected.

Worldometer model predicts a peak in infections August 30th, with a total of 46k deaths by Nov 1st. We can argue all day long about how foolish it is, but we have to give people some leeway in calculating the risks they take in life.

The part I quoted you saying is why I find the argument that all should get vaccinated to protect others or you're selfish problematic. I just read this, ABC, not fake news right?

"As of Thursday, 882 people were tied to the Provincetown outbreak. Among those living in Massachusetts, 74% of them were fully immunized, yet officials said the vast majority were also reporting symptoms. Seven people were reported hospitalized. "

CDC mask decision followed stunning findings from Cape Cod beach outbreak

The CDC's mask decision followed stunning findings from a Cape Cod beach outbreak. The viral load of vaccinated beachgoers changed what we know about the delta variant.

abcnews.go.com

 

[ivwshane]

Man, things are ramping up really quickly here in FLA, central area (probably worse in the south).

A close relative works in an ICU and said it's now as bad as it ever got before...and the rate at which people are coming in is far faster. The ages are lower, in the case of people that need oxygen (but not ICU) there have been some people younger than 20. One mid-30s and one mid-40s are probably not going to make it he said, no previous conditions (other than obesity, which may indeed be a factor). One vaccinated person has died there, but apparently he did have other issues. Almost everyone getting 0xygen or being intubated is unvaccinated.

His hospital is basically full, the much, much larger Advent Health system's ICU is full and that's a problem as it accepts spillover from smaller hospitals. One such in Brevard is putting patients in ER rooms, which is exactly the thing feared from the beginning--if hospitals overflow, then people can't get treatment for anything.

The thing you don't hear much about is that covid patients average much longer in the ICU than normal (two months vs two weeks). One poor guy has been in there three months. Not sure if Delta changes that, but it's definitely putting more people in the ICU at a greater rate than before.

Hold onto your hats. Delta is a different beast.

And of course if I told all this to half the country, I'd either be a liar or listening to a liar, because hospitals are empty. All those doctors making money from this don't you know (which is inane and basically the opposite of the truth)

The latest info is showing that vaccinated people MAY be spreading the virus as much as unvaccinated--which is really freaking bad news for the unvaccinated. Along with this is the news that Delta may be as contagious as chicken pox, which means its WAY more contagious than the original strain. You'd have to be nuts to not be vaccinated, unless you live in a cabin in the mountains. I know a couple people who got long covid, months later they still aren't the same, so even if you survive you may have long-term issues. Compare that to some quack on youtube trying to make a buck by scaring people. If there's a hint of evidence the vaccines might cause issues, let's talk...but "I don't know" doesn't cut it. "Changing your DNA" is straight up looney tunes.

Is your relative vaccinated? What about his coworkers?

 

[eikelbijter]

Neutralizing antibody titers are highly predictive of who is protected from COVID-19. Neutralizing antibody titers are the mainstay of protective immunity from most viral pathogens and is widely accepted in immunology. Looks like someone doesn't like a result, and is willing to pretend a broadly accepted topic in immunology isn't true. Why is that?

Thanks for sharing that! It says:

"Immunity to SARS-CoV-2 induced either through natural infection or vaccination has been shown to afford a degree of protection against reinfection and/or reduce the risk of clinically significant outcomes. Seropositive recovered subjects have been estimated to have 89% protection from reinfection1, and vaccine efficacies from 50 to 95% have been reported2. However, the duration of protective immunity is presently unclear, primary immune responses are inevitably waning3,4,5, and there is ongoing transmission of increasingly concerning viral variants that may escape control by both vaccine-induced and convalescent immune responses6. "

Is this accurate information? You roasted me for saying antibody levels wane.

I'll have to read the whole thing tomorrow.

 

[Jaskalas]

"As of Thursday, 882 people were tied to the Provincetown outbreak. Among those living in Massachusetts, 74% of them were fully immunized, yet officials said the vast majority were also reporting symptoms. Seven people were reported hospitalized. "

That is alarming.

The Israel study apparently makes sense now. Delta has broken through vaccination, but only 7 people hospitalized is quite the improvement over the 70 we would expect from the original strain. May we attribute that improvement on vaccination?

 

[eikelbijter]

The Israel study apparently makes sense now. Delta has broken through vaccination, but only 7 people hospitalized is quite the improvement over the 70 we would expect from the original strain. May we attribute that improvement on vaccination?

I think that is fair to say, but some of them would have been protected against serious disease by previous natural infection too.

 

[cytg111]

Man, things are ramping up really quickly here in FLA, central area (probably worse in the south).

A close relative works in an ICU and said it's now as bad as it ever got before...and the rate at which people are coming in is far faster. The ages are lower, in the case of people that need oxygen (but not ICU) there have been some people younger than 20. One mid-30s and one mid-40s are probably not going to make it he said, no previous conditions (other than obesity, which may indeed be a factor). One vaccinated person has died there, but apparently he did have other issues. Almost everyone getting 0xygen or being intubated is unvaccinated.

His hospital is basically full, the much, much larger Advent Health system's ICU is full and that's a problem as it accepts spillover from smaller hospitals. One such in Brevard is putting patients in ER rooms, which is exactly the thing feared from the beginning--if hospitals overflow, then people can't get treatment for anything.

The thing you don't hear much about is that covid patients average much longer in the ICU than normal (two months vs two weeks). One poor guy has been in there three months. Not sure if Delta changes that, but it's definitely putting more people in the ICU at a greater rate than before.

Hold onto your hats. Delta is a different beast.

And of course if I told all this to half the country, I'd either be a liar or listening to a liar, because hospitals are empty. All those doctors making money from this don't you know (which is inane and basically the opposite of the truth)

The latest info is showing that vaccinated people MAY be spreading the virus as much as unvaccinated--which is really freaking bad news for the unvaccinated. Along with this is the news that Delta may be as contagious as chicken pox, which means its WAY more contagious than the original strain. You'd have to be nuts to not be vaccinated, unless you live in a cabin in the mountains. I know a couple people who got long covid, months later they still aren't the same, so even if you survive you may have long-term issues. Compare that to some quack on youtube trying to make a buck by scaring people. If there's a hint of evidence the vaccines might cause issues, let's talk...but "I don't know" doesn't cut it. "Changing your DNA" is straight up looney tunes.

Damn man. Fuck Delta. How young are they coming in? Teens? Pre teens?
Also, if vaccinated people indeed is spreading it as much as unvacced, doesnt that mean that even with a 100% vaccination rate, the population is still gonna keep this delta thing alive? Possibly?

 

[eikelbijter]

Damn man. Fuck Delta. How young are they coming in? Teens? Pre teens?
Also, if vaccinated people indeed is spreading it as much as unvacced, doesnt that mean that even with a 100% vaccination rate, the population is still gonna keep this delta thing alive? Possibly?

Now you're getting to the point I was trying to make SO many times. Doesn't it make vaccine passports seem kind of silly?

 

[cytg111]

Now you're getting to the point I was trying to make SO many times. Doesn't it make vaccine passports seem kind of silly?

I dont think so? Not at this point? We are still in the middle of this war right? Sure, after the fact, we can look back and say, hey if we had done this instead of that we would have done better. Hindsight is 20-20.

As of right now its a game of incomplete information and the best thing you can do is make the best informed move possible given the data available *right now*. Here in Scandinavia, covid passports are instrumental in curbing the virus - and its working. Denmark for example is well on its way of a total reopening of everything where other countries are fighting third and even fourth waves.

If I understand you right, this is what you want, for whatever part of America that hasnt gotten the vaccine, wont get the vaccine, so you might as well let the virus rip. Right? Be done with it. I dont think you will be done with it though? The virus will ravage and ravage and ravage and continue to cook in those areas until...
Of course that is going to be mainly in MAGA land mmmm... how is that line? I may be an asshole but I am not a fucking asshole?
If you have to wear a covid passport to protect those who is unable to protect them selves, I say you wear the passport.

 

[Pohemi]

Damn man. Fuck Delta. How young are they coming in? Teens? Pre teens?
Also, if vaccinated people indeed is spreading it as much as unvacced, doesnt that mean that even with a 100% vaccination rate, the population is still gonna keep this delta thing alive? Possibly?

I read that last night too about the study coming out of the UK. The numbers were slim to make the conclusions they arrived at, but IF their conclusions are all correct, there is STILL no reason to not get vaccinated if you are medically able.

If vaccinated are able to be infected and carry the same type of viral load as the unvaccinated, then the entire purpose of getting vaccinated would be to avoid the severe illness, hospitalization, and death.

Is that not worth being vaccinated for? Well, not to "freedumb and liberty" assholes who don't give a shit about their fellow humans.

Now you're getting to the point I was trying to make SO many times. Doesn't it make vaccine passports seem kind of silly?

No. You can still fuck off with your nearly two dozen pages of FUD.

 

[cytg111]

I read that last night too about the study coming out of the UK. The numbers were slim to make the conclusions they arrived at, but IF their conclusions are all correct, there is STILL no reason to not get vaccinated if you are medically able.

If vaccinated are able to be infected and carry the same type of viral load as the unvaccinated, then the entire purpose of getting vaccinated would be to avoid the severe illness, hospitalization, and death.

Is that not worth being vaccinated for? Well, not to "freedumb and liberty" assholes who don't give a shit about their fellow humans.


No. You can still fuck off with your nearly two dozen pages of FUD.

100% … Id say its even more reason to get vaccinated… and be first in line for the booster shot when/if that becomes a thing. The crystal ball I am toying with right now is a thing where this shit is never over and only intensifies over time and if we for whatever reason have a breakdown in logistics, hotspots, wars, diplomatic woes, this thing is always gonna be there to spring up into action. We need some new tech to battle this…
Countries is gonna need to get local fabs going..

 

[dank69]

The real root motivation of most anti-vaxxers:

https://imgur.com/7iv57ac

 

[himkhan]

How can I convince you guys that I'm not a moron...

Log back into your main account and continue this minors class in trolling. Call that account..... I don't know...

Perhaps something like "I don't care"...

Oh wait......

 

[pmv]

Now you're getting to the point I was trying to make SO many times. Doesn't it make vaccine passports seem kind of silly?

I don't really have any strong opinion either-way about 'vaccine passports'.

I think peaceful persuation and social-pressure still has a lot of milage left in it. Maybe less so in the US, where, I read, about half the remaining un-vaccinated population tell pollsters they will 'never' get the vaccine.

What I don't get, is, given I've known people move to the Netherlands entirely because of the appeal of their sensible approach to transport infrastructure, what kind of Dutchman chooses to live in LA - possibly the most car-centric, active-travel-hostile city in the world?

Did you have to go through some sort of formal ceremony where they confiscate your bicycle clips and break your bicycle pump over their knee?