Converting to water-cooling for CPU/GPU

[sakete]

Hi guys,

I recently built a new PC (a few weeks ago) with a 4790K and a Noctua NH-D15 cooling it. This is all in a Fractal Design R5 case.

I'm thinking of upgrading to water-cooling. Why? Yesterday I received my EVGA 980Ti SC+ ACX+ video card, but I'm not really happy with the temps I'm getting.

I'm considering buying a water-cooling block for the video card and am now also contemplating getting a block for the CPU. I want this to be relatively low maintenance, also because this will be my first time playing with water-cooling.

So my idea is to have a 140mm radiator/fan with a block connected to the GPU as the out-take fan, and then having a radiator with fan as an intake to cool the CPU (not sure yet what size block I wanna get, depends on the space in my case, will have to look inside and take some measurements before I order anything). So I would have two separate/independent cooling blocks in my case, one for the CPU (currently thinking of having that mounted at the intake position in front) and one for the GPU (currently thinking of having that mounted at the outtake position at the back of the case).

Is this a good way to go? Also, if I were to get those AIO solutions from say Corsair or NZXT, what are the risks in terms of any leaking that might happen?

Thanks!

 

[Aikouka]

Just to note, you say "block" in a few places where I think you mean radiator.

I see that you overclock your CPU, but unless your temperatures and/or noise levels are really bad, I'd just leave the CPU out of it. I look at it as a matter of simplicity and ease. The R5 is a smaller case (I use one for my Gaming HTPC), and you may find it unpleasant trying to fit the extra hardware and tubing. So, if you don't need the extra CPU cooling, keep it simple with a GPU-only setup since that's your main concern.

Ease has to do with modifications. I had been building and tinkering with PCs for many years before I decided to take a jump into water cooling. The worst part is when you realize, "Oh, if I want to mess with my CPU or video card, I have to drain the entire loop, mitigate potential water spills (you most likely won't get all the water out), and then redo everything that you just did. Compare this to simply pulling a video card out, and it seems like quite the headache, right? Now, you can mitigate this by going with quick disconnect fittings. These fittings have valves that close once you pull them apart, so you can actually disconnect components without having to drain... so long as the component can be isolated with quick disconnects. That was one bad thing when it came to CPU cooling -- I could never fit the much taller quick disconnect fittings. It's also worthwhile to consider that they're much more expensive than standard compression or clamp fittings. I used them for my fill and drain ports, and they cost around $25 per port. So, hooking up the inlet and outlet on a GPU and CPU would cost $100 for the quick disconnects. That's about how much a full-cover GPU water block costs!

Anyway, if you do want to go the AIO route, which would be cheaper, it would work fine. The only "downside" is that you probably won't reach the same temperatures that you would with custom water. Also, AIOs are more like GPU-only water blocks rather than full-cover water blocks, which means they don't cool other components like VRMs.

 

[xthetenth]

See if you can step up to an evga 980 Ti hybrid? That should get a lot of the benefit of water with basically no extra work.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

What's the temperature profile for your GTX 980 card? Idle? Gaming? Kombustor or Heaven?

Have you custom-tuned the fans through Afterburner, Precision, Inspector or some other utility? [Inspector allows for only crude adjustment to fixed speeds or the auto BIOS default fan curve.]

For that matter, what's the profile for your i7-4790K -- idle, gaming, stress-test [specify] load?

And have you overclocked the CPU, or are you attempting to do so?

Is the GTX 980 a barrel-fan reference design, or the dual-fan variety with slightly exposed heatpipes? EDIT: OK -- dual fan then, vertical fins on the cooling assembly.

As it stands, I have two heatpipe coolers: the D14 and the EVGA ACX. my ACX beats the [stock] D15 by ~ 8C, and the D14 by 6C, but my D14 beats your cooler (if you just made the instructed installation) by about 1 or 2C. My ACX would only outperform your D15 by 3C if you "did some things" that I've done to both the D14 and the ACX.

I only say this, because you could go ahead and invest in single- or double-loop water-cooling, or you could get an AiO for the CPU and "do some things" to improve the graphics cooling. Or you could invest in comprehensive water-cooling -- as I said.

The mods I've made on my coolers/cases/fans bring my heatpipe coolers very close to matching AiOs. I believe that's all the cooling you might need for the 4790K, provided its a decent pick of the lottery.

 

[sakete]

See if you can step up to an evga 980 Ti hybrid? That should get a lot of the benefit of water with basically no extra work.

Perhaps... though I ordered my current card directly from EVGA, so there would be a 15% restocking fee since it's otherwise not defective. But I might get in touch with them to see if I can work something out with them. It would be the easiest route, and overall also the cheapest route as it's $70 more than what I have now, whereas any other AIO solution would be $100+.

 

[aigomorla]

AIO vs Custom is like night vs day.

Its like a Golf Cart vs. Indy F1 especially in the gpu department, as a full cover block will more then effectively double the life of your gpu card by reducing your load temps across everything by more then 1/2.

Only downside is a full cover block is very expensive, requires time and patience to install, and can not me recycled to a new gpu, unless its the same GPU reference design.

Also full cover blocks mostly only work on reference designed cards, so specialized pcb's will not fit, unless it states that it can handle a specialized pcb.


If your thinking of custom water, and trying to add in the component cheap, don't.
There is no such thing as cheap custom water.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

AIO vs Custom is like night vs day.

Its like a Golf Cart vs. Indy F1 especially in the gpu department, as a full cover block will more then effectively double the life of your gpu card by reducing your load temps across everything by more then 1/2.

Only downside is a full cover block is very expensive, requires time and patience to install, and can not me recycled to a new gpu, unless its the same GPU reference design.

Also full cover blocks mostly only work on reference designed cards, so specialized pcb's will not fit, unless it states that it can handle a specialized pcb.


If your thinking of custom water, and trying to add in the component cheap, don't.
There is no such thing as cheap custom water.

I probably agree. I wouldn't use water-cooling on my graphics card(s) unless I used "full cover." What are the mitigating remedies without it? Little heatsinks?

I guess I have to make this point. I've got two 970's/SLI with the stock two-fan heatpipe assembly like the OP's EVGA. If I tweak the NVidia Control Panel settings for Kombustor so that they're set to "Alternate rendering mode 1," the peak temperature is about 75C. Using Heaven with "recommended" setting, around 65C. After stress, the cards return rather quickly to 32 to 38C, depending on ambient and time. I've already half-finished overclocking the cards, so these temperatures describe a +100 to core boost clock and +200 to the memory clock.

If there's a problem with the Fractal case, it would be limited intake airflow, but it has enough features to overcome that deficiency.

 

[Essence_of_War]

I probably agree. I wouldn't use water-cooling on my graphics card(s) unless I used "full cover." What are the mitigating remedies without it? Little heatsinks?

Usually thermal pads and small aluminum heatsink fin things you attach to the VRAM.

You can see an example here in Dustin's review of the Arctic Accelero Hybrid from circa 2-3 years ago. It's an AIO, but it has a GPU block and then tiny heatsinks + a direct fan for the VRAM.

 

[Aikouka]

Perhaps... though I ordered my current card directly from EVGA, so there would be a 15% restocking fee since it's otherwise not defective. But I might get in touch with them to see if I can work something out with them. It would be the easiest route, and overall also the cheapest route as it's $70 more than what I have now, whereas any other AIO solution would be $100+.

EVGA does sell the AIO solution separately. Albeit, I don't think I've ever seen it in stock.

 

[sakete]

If I go the AIO route for the GPU (which I probably will), I might go for the NZXT G10 + NZXT Kraken X31 combo. Or the soon to be released Corsair HG10 N980 + a Corsair Hydro cooler. Those also have solutions for the VRAM with heatsinks/coolers for that area and then an open spot where you attach the liquid cooling block.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

EVGA does sell the AIO solution separately. Albeit, I don't think I've ever seen it in stock.

Some of the models in the compatibility list seem to be the two-fan variety, not just reference design.

 

[Z15CAM]

From my experience, AIO for CPU is OK but AIO for GPU is CRAP. Best to go with full WB's on both CPU and OEM PCB GPU's with a couple of descent Rads and Pumps.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

If I go the AIO route for the GPU (which I probably will), I might go for the NZXT G10 + NZXT Kraken X31 combo. Or the soon to be released Corsair HG10 N980 + a Corsair Hydro cooler. Those also have solutions for the VRAM with heatsinks/coolers for that area and then an open spot where you attach the liquid cooling block.

I think, for the 4790K, you could do better with the Kraken X41, if you can fit it into the case and the overall equation . . . If it were a 5820K or higher "E" on a 2011-v3 board, I wouldn't settle for less than H110i or Swiftech H240X -- with the latest bells, whistles -- features. That would be "settling" for AiO.

Or you could go the custom route. I'm just not sure that it's necessary. It would depend on the scope of the system -- how many graphics cards, etc.

 

[MrTeal]

If you go with a H240-X or 220-X, you could probably also get away with adding the full coverage block and a lower restriction 240-360mm radiator. It would get you most of the way to a full water without as much worry about setup. If you really just want a GPU system, knock off the extra radiator and sell the Apogee CPU waterblock.

 

[Z15CAM]

*&^% you and your 4790K over my i7 2700k running at 4.8 Ghz for the last 3 years on my power hungry WB DeskTop with CF 290X's. Suggest you go Tabloid and eat Twinkies.

Sad to say but I think Intel's SandyBridge was last of it's kind for Consumer Desktops.

DeskTops along with discreet GPU's are becoming redundant with the latest low voltage dies with twice the amount of transistors.

Hopefully our Hp Desktop Builds aren't a thing of the PAST and so end the day's of being a PC Hot Rodder.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Has anyone tried adding "parts" to the H240X? It's supposed to be ex-p-a-a-ndable . . . .

*&^% you and your 4790K over my i7 2700k running at 4.8 Ghz for the last 3 years on my power hungry WB DeskTop with CF 290X's. Suggest you go Tabloid and eat Twinkies.

Sad to say but I think Intel's SandyBridge was last of it's kind for Consumer Desktops.

DeskTops along with discreet GPU's are becoming redundant with the latest low voltage dies.

Our Hp Desktop Builds are a thing of the PAST.

You know . . . CPU speed is not the sole determinate anymore of performance. I could only keep up with an i7-4770K @ 4.4 Ghz in Cinebench with the i7-2600K @ 4.7 . . .

I built an i5-3570K early this year for my brother upstairs. We haven't even overclocked it yet, but it was still a bit of a surprise. With the FinFet technology, there are other things "going on" besides processor speed.

SB-K was indeed one of the better bang-for-buck windfalls that Intel passed on to the community. With the 4790K, you can barely keep up with Sandy Bridge in absolute Mhz total clocks, and the OCing headroom is less than half what we found with the Sandies. But, like I said, there's more under the hood there than what shows in frequency.

I really just think we've come to a point, at least for gaming and other more mainstream applications, where processor speed just doesn't make a lot of difference.

 

[MrTeal]

Has anyone tried adding "parts" to the H240X? It's supposed to be ex-p-a-a-ndable . . . .



You know . . . CPU speed is not the sole determinate anymore of performance. I could only keep up with an i7-4770K @ 4.4 Ghz in Cinebench with the i7-2600K @ 4.7 . . .

I built an i5-3570K early this year for my brother upstairs. We haven't even overclocked it yet, but it was still a bit of a surprise. With the FinFet technology, there are other things "going on" besides processor speed.

SB-K was indeed one of the better bang-for-buck windfalls that Intel passed on to the community. With the 4790K, you can barely keep up with Sandy Bridge in absolute Mhz total clocks, and the OCing headroom is less than half what we found with the Sandies. But, like I said, there's more under the hood there than what shows in frequency.

I really just think we've come to a point, at least for gaming and other more mainstream applications, where processor speed just doesn't make a lot of difference.

I've expanded the H220 coolers, and it was relatively painless. The H220-X should be just as easy. My current GPU setup is a H220 on the core with a second failed unit on the VRMs. The one issue with the H220 (other than constant pump failures) is that the stock rad is really high restriction, but I believe the H220X isn't as bad. I've got a couple dozen of them but I found for my application (~600W dissipated) it was just easier to change the fans to a 240CFM model than to add radiators. Of course this was in my garage, fans that can double as hovercraft aren't really suitable for desktop PCs.

 

[Z15CAM]

I really just think we've come to a point, at least for gaming and other more mainstream applications, where processor speed just doesn't make a lot of difference.

I agree and it has has becomes a main to lower voltage with more processing for for Tabloid purposes - My question is where does it leave the PC Enthusiast?

 

[MrTeal]

I agree and it has has becomes a main to lower voltage with more processing for for Tabloid purposes - My question is where does it leave the PC Enthusiast?

 

[Z15CAM]

So we're up a creek without a paddle - LOL.

 

[guskline]

aigomorla: Thank you for the spot on comments. From personal experience, I "evolved" from AIO to custom water cooling after I bought my 3930k cpu. I had the high end AIO's but the "urge" to do better started me on the road to custom water cooling. I started by buying used but solid parts (RX 360 rad and D-5 pump). After installing a used generation 1 EK waterblock on a GTX670 FTW, I saw first hand the massive drop in gpu temps. I was hooked.

I cannot argue that full cover blocks are not cheap (usually $110 to $150). However, If I just dropped @$650 on a new video card and I'm complaining about high temps, a full cover block (EK Titan X @$115) is not a HUGE increase to make a dramatic drop in temps. The EK Hybrid system is cheaper but I question the vrm temp issue.

Your, main point, significant drop in GPU temp, isn where water cooling helps. Just look at AMD's move in the upcoming Fury XT with HBM memory.

 

[sakete]

I think for now I'm gonna try just doing the GPU, and will leave the CPU air-cooled. From researching a bit more last night it seems that I will not gain much in terms of temps in the CPU department when going from my Noctua NH-D15 to a AIO setup. The GPU however is another story, and there are potentially many benefits to be had. Will see what it looks like tonight when I disassemble the 980Ti. Hopefully I won't need a copper shim or VRAM heatsinks, otherwise I'll have to order those and wait for them before I can continue.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I think for now I'm gonna try just doing the GPU, and will leave the CPU air-cooled. From researching a bit more last night it seems that I will not gain much in terms of temps in the CPU department when going from my Noctua NH-D15 to a AIO setup. The GPU however is another story, and there are potentially many benefits to be had. Will see what it looks like tonight when I disassemble the 980Ti. Hopefully I won't need a copper shim or VRAM heatsinks, otherwise I'll have to order those and wait for them before I can continue.

" . . . not gain much . . " That's probably true, but you won't match D15 performance to, say, an H100 or H110 unless you "do certain things," likely "spend some extra money on fans," or set aside a day for Xacto-knife tedium of the duct-building kind. Either or any way, you're going to spend $10 or materials and adhesive. You might spend the same for a $5 item for a total $10 with shipping. You may likely have to re-evaluate your D15 fans, although I understand they're better than those bundled with the D14. You might still want to spend $20+/- for a rear-exhaust fan replacement. If your objective is to kill as much noise as heat, add another $8 + shipping for some foam-rubber acoustic pads with adhesive.

I just say this because I myself have put off any investment in water-cooling by investing labor and time in making air-coolers "better." That also includes lapping the processor and heatpipe-cooler base to bare copper, and spending a few more dollars on diamond paste, Indigo Xtreme or Coollaboratory Liquid Pro. The temperature improvements are all additive.

I'd be more inclined to use an AiO for a 4790K, but I might attempt using either my D15 or ACX cooler to see if I can get either to perform the same way. Intelligence gathered here at the forums is encouraging. I think I could probably cool a 4790K to ~72C (again . . +/-) under burn-test maximum loads, at the same time overclocking to 4.6 -- maybe 4.7. Lucky? 4.8.

But I'd have to be building a Devils Canyon rig to prove it firsthand. And I have a budget and a schedule (which keeps slipping), while leaning toward an "E-" system.

 

[aigomorla]

The GPU however is another story, and there are potentially many benefits to be had. Will see what it looks like tonight when I disassemble the 980Ti. Hopefully I won't need a copper shim or VRAM heatsinks, otherwise I'll have to order those and wait for them before I can continue.

you can see here i only have a 10C delta from idle to load...
27-28C idle on both cards, and 37C full load temps at 98% gpu usage on both cards again would make a lot of people cry. :whiste:
There is no worry about choking the bottom GPU because 80-90% of the heat is moved out to the radiators so there is no recycling of heat on the bottom card.

Fair warning tho, once u watercool your gpu's you can never go back.
When you see load temps of excess of 60-70-80 and even 90C you cringe... and then start to rant at how inefficient air gpu sinks are.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

That's impressive. I just think you'd want to find the right waterblock, and the pickings may not be so great if the cards aren't "reference design." Perhaps a little research is in order.

All this time, enthusiasts and parts-makers have been improving water-cooled options for graphics cards, but the TDP and heat-profile on upper-mid-tier cards has dropped. And supposedly the GPUs have been made to "take the heat." You're obviously going to extend the life of the card(s) by keeping temperatures in the lowest 10C range between idle and load, but then, how long are you going to use the cards?

But like I also said, my cards don't much see temperatures above 70C, while the wisdom has it that 90C is the threshold of "too much." Most of the time, they stay in a 20 to 25C range with gaming loads, or at most 60C.

If I were going to invest in full-cover blocks, I'd pretty much assume from the beginning that they'll simply follow the cards from one computer to the next, or eventually from one user to another willing to buy the whole enchilada.

you can see here i only have a 10C delta from idle to load...
27-28C idle on both cards, and 37C full load temps at 98% gpu usage on both cards again would make a lot of people cry. :whiste:
There is no worry about choking the bottom GPU because 80-90% of the heat is moved out to the radiators so there is no recycling of heat on the bottom card.

Fair warning tho, once u watercool your gpu's you can never go back.
When you see load temps of excess of 60-70-80 and even 90C you cringe... and then start to rant at how inefficient air gpu sinks are.