Converting to water-cooling for CPU/GPU

[aigomorla]

bonazi because it opens that much more to overclocking room on the said cards...

since i have such a low load temp, i can MAX out that voltage setting, and then ramp up the memory / gpu clocks.

When you watercool gpu's you no longer become "heat limited"... it becomes Voltage limited, because u cant slide that voltage bar any further to the right.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

bonazi because it opens that much more to overclocking room on the said cards...

since i have such a low load temp, i can MAX out that voltage setting, and then ramp up the memory / gpu clocks.

When you watercool gpu's you no longer become "heat limited"... it becomes Voltage limited, because u cant slide that voltage bar any further to the right.

Yeah . . . you're right. I have to revise my evaluation of my gfx cards, also. It depends on the stress-test, but with some Kombustor testing, one of the cards hits 80C now and I've only added +5 to the voltage slider so far. I bought one of these cards in December, the other in February. I thought I got "familiar" with the OC'ing profile with only a single card, but it doesn't work that way.

It seems that SLI changes the ball-game. Without superb cooling, one is better off just running them with stock settings.

So if a person wants to "go all the way," he has to invest the money, find the parts, and embrace liquid cooling entirely.

Now that I do some more poking around, I find that there are indeed full-cover blocks for MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4G cards -- EK announced them last year:

http://www.ekwb.com/news/547/19/EK-releases-MSI-GTX-970-Gaming-4G-Full-Cover-water-block/

Hmmm . . . . I can see that I'm going to look into that. Damn -- those things are $122 each at Performance PCs. But! It's a full-cover block!

 

[sakete]

" . . . not gain much . . " That's probably true, but you won't match D15 performance to, say, an H100 or H110 unless you "do certain things," likely "spend some extra money on fans," or set aside a day for Xacto-knife tedium of the duct-building kind. Either or any way, you're going to spend $10 or materials and adhesive. You might spend the same for a $5 item for a total $10 with shipping. You may likely have to re-evaluate your D15 fans, although I understand they're better than those bundled with the D14. You might still want to spend $20+/- for a rear-exhaust fan replacement. If your objective is to kill as much noise as heat, add another $8 + shipping for some foam-rubber acoustic pads with adhesive.

I just say this because I myself have put off any investment in water-cooling by investing labor and time in making air-coolers "better." That also includes lapping the processor and heatpipe-cooler base to bare copper, and spending a few more dollars on diamond paste, Indigo Xtreme or Coollaboratory Liquid Pro. The temperature improvements are all additive.

I'd be more inclined to use an AiO for a 4790K, but I might attempt using either my D15 or ACX cooler to see if I can get either to perform the same way. Intelligence gathered here at the forums is encouraging. I think I could probably cool a 4790K to ~72C (again . . +/-) under burn-test maximum loads, at the same time overclocking to 4.6 -- maybe 4.7. Lucky? 4.8.

But I'd have to be building a Devils Canyon rig to prove it firsthand. And I have a budget and a schedule (which keeps slipping), while leaning toward an "E-" system.

All this research about water-coolers is almost giving me a mind to send the D15 back to Amazon and go full AIO for both GPU and CPU. But I'll think it over a bit more. Have until the 20th to return the D15, beyond that I'm stuck with it. Noise/performance ratio wise though, the D15 is hard to beat. AIO can get significantly louder. (but then I can always replace the stock fans the AIO comes with....)

Another concern is that I have somewhat limited space in R5. I don't want to go for 280mm radiators, 140mm max so I also have space for my disk cages. Guess I'll need to research what the best noise/performance ratio is for 140mm radiator AIO blocks.

Either way, picked up a NZXT Kraken G10 bracket + Kraken X31 AIO block for my GPU today. Just need to order a copper shim so that I can actually attach the block (otherwise there's a 1mm gap between the block and the gpu core). That will have to come from China through Ebay, so might take about a week/ 2 weeks.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

All this research about water-coolers is almost giving me a mind to send the D15 back to Amazon and go full AIO for both GPU and CPU. But I'll think it over a bit more. Have until the 20th to return the D15, beyond that I'm stuck with it. Noise/performance ratio wise though, the D15 is hard to beat. AIO can get significantly louder. (but then I can always replace the stock fans the AIO comes with....)

Another concern is that I have somewhat limited space in R5. I don't want to go for 280mm radiators, 140mm max so I also have space for my disk cages. Guess I'll need to research what the best noise/performance ratio is for 140mm radiator AIO blocks.

Either way, picked up a NZXT Kraken G10 bracket + Kraken X31 AIO block for my GPU today. Just need to order a copper shim so that I can actually attach the block (otherwise there's a 1mm gap between the block and the gpu core). That will have to come from China through Ebay, so might take about a week/ 2 weeks.

I've come across enough people in the forums using a cooler like the CM 212 EVO for Devil's Canyon systems to say your D15 is more than sufficient. But if you have serious overclocking ambitions, you would either do what you can to make it perform better than stock D15 installations, or find an AiO cooler.

One member took an H80 AiO cooler and mounted it with a pusher and puller fan, putting "spacer ducts" (fan shrouds or frames) between the radiator fins and the fans. It exhausted air through the case rear. Without clocking the 4790K above 4.4 Ghz, he said he was able to keep the load temperatures below 60C. Overclocking to ~4.6, I think his temperatures were in the low 70s. He used at least one Noctua iPPC 2000 fan-- possibly two.


That tells me I could come fairly close to the same performance with either my D14 or my ACX heatpipe cooler.

The processors are designed to operate in a certain temperature environment. With Devils Canyon, the upper recommended boundary is around 73C. So whatever cooling solution you choose, keeping the stress-test load temperatures below 80 or 85C should be satisfactory. And you might be able to use a heatpipe cooler to reduce stress-load temperatures to the mid-70s. But I don't think you can just do it by bolting in the cooler and using the bundled fans, in "any old" case with little attention to intake airflow and "directed" airflow.

There are some good dual-fan AiOs available. Something like a Kraken X61 or H110i would make it pretty easy if you did nothing more than just bolt them in.

 

[sakete]

So I decided to exchange my Fractal Design R5 case for a Corsair Obsidian 750D, which has better airflow than the R5. It's also bigger and roomier so easier to work in.

Along with that I got a Corsair Hydro 110i GT. Installed it in the top as exhaust. Two 140mm intake fans at the front of the case, another 140mm exhaust fan. Currently this setup is running my 4790k about 5-7C cooler at idle. Haven't done a test under load yet, will do that tomorrow. But so far so good, am quite pleased. Yeah the case is a bit noisier but I can live with that.

Once I've received my copper shims I'll also install an AIO setup for my 980Ti, will do a 140 or 120mm rad with single fan and probably place it at the bottom as intake.

So far I'm happier with the temps. Will know for sure once I do a load test tomorrow.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

So I decided to exchange my Fractal Design R5 case for a Corsair Obsidian 750D, which has better airflow than the R5. It's also bigger and roomier so easier to work in.

Along with that I got a Corsair Hydro 110i GT. Installed it in the top as exhaust. Two 140mm intake fans at the front of the case, another 140mm exhaust fan. Currently this setup is running my 4790k about 5-7C cooler at idle. Haven't done a test under load yet, will do that tomorrow. But so far so good, am quite pleased. Yeah the case is a bit noisier but I can live with that.

Once I've received my copper shims I'll also install an AIO setup for my 980Ti, will do a 140 or 120mm rad with single fan and probably place it at the bottom as intake.

So far I'm happier with the temps. Will know for sure once I do a load test tomorrow.

Well . . . . . . Idle temperatures aren't all that meaningful, although I suppose if there's a decent improvement over the heatpipes, that's a good sign.

Choose your tests carefully. For instance, give OCCT:CPU a try. Also, Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility. Affinitized-LinX will really put a burn on the processor with its AVX instruction-set extension. Let's see how it turns out.

 

[sakete]

Well, in this new case for some reason the H110i is not giving me significantly better temperatures than the Noctua NH-D15. And to give me those temperatures, it generates a lot more noise than the Noctua. So what I'm gonna do is just return the H110i. In this Corsair 750D case I overall get somewhat better airflow so I seem to be getting slightly better temperatures at load (max temperature in Intel Extreme Tuning Utility is 74C with the D15, and about the same with the H110i). All of this is testing at 4.6GHz @ 1.222V under load (manual voltage).

This was a nice experiment, but in the end not worth the trouble. Perhaps it's all just luck of the draw with my 4790k, might just be that mine runs on the hot side.

Will still try the AIO route with my GPU.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, in this new case for some reason the H110i is not giving me significantly better temperatures than the Noctua NH-D15. And to give me those temperatures, it generates a lot more noise than the Noctua. So what I'm gonna do is just return the H110i. In this Corsair 750D case I overall get somewhat better airflow so I seem to be getting slightly better temperatures at load (max temperature in Intel Extreme Tuning Utility is 74C with the D15, and about the same with the H110i). All of this is testing at 4.6GHz @ 1.222V under load (manual voltage).

This was a nice experiment, but in the end not worth the trouble. Perhaps it's all just luck of the draw with my 4790k, might just be that mine runs on the hot side.

Will still try the AIO route with my GPU.

Personally, I didn't quite expect that result. I would've thought you'd fall behind with the D15 some 2 to 4C. If you mounted the D15 the usual way -- with the broad side of the fins facing the rear exhaust -- you might want to try ducting it to the rear exhaust, if only with a duct/box made of cardboard -- to see if and how much you get even more improvement. And if you see an improvement of 3 to 5C, you might want to pick up one of these:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/ther...r-01x-120mm-tower-cooler-fan-duct-for-k8.html

Or you could build your own with foam-art-board. Don't worry that they're designed for or "only compatible with" a certain ThermalRight cooler: even if it doesn't cover the entire face of the D15 fins, it will work almost as well fitted to it the best way you can.

The only other improvement could be a beefier exhaust fan like a Noctua iPPC 3000 -- thermally controlled from a motherboard PWM fan port.

I would argue that many or even all of the fans bundled with a wide assortment of heatpipe coolers are not sufficient to take advantage of the cooler's full potential. This is especially likely in Noctua's case, as they themselves admit that they are totally obsessed with noise reduction. But you can beat noise in other simple ways. As for the D15's own fans, they're supposed to be better than the D14 generation.

As for the 4790K, the Intel XTU program is showing the true profile of the processor. XTU is more like OCCT:CPU for stressing at lower-than-peak temperatures more typical of Intel Burn Test or LinX. The 74C outcome is about what I'd expect. On my system with a bigger CPU die and despite the higher thermal power (137W overclocked under load), XTU shows something more like 65C.

Have fun!

 

[PhIlLy ChEeSe]

Not to offend ANYBODY and it's just my opinion, you minds well toss your money in a slot machine for all the good they do. And you want to open it up to 2 GPU'S?
So the blocks for the GPU'S will be a waste and useless after(only good for those cards), IMHO a total waste of time and money. Your never gonna see good enough temps on the GPU'S to even go much higher then the normal overclock on the stock cooler. For $100+ on each GPU? plus all the fittings, if your gonna water cool use a pump, RADS,REZ,BLOCKS, tubing and fittings are up to you. Plus if you go the custom route everything but the GPU blocks is re useable...........Money well spent.
(HINT: BITS POWER FITTINGS JUNK!)

 

[sakete]

Not to offend ANYBODY and it's just my opinion, you minds well toss your money in a slot machine for all the good they do. And you want to open it up to 2 GPU'S?
So the blocks for the GPU'S will be a waste and useless after(only good for those cards), IMHO a total waste of time and money. Your never gonna see good enough temps on the GPU'S to even go much higher then the normal overclock on the stock cooler. For $100+ on each GPU? plus all the fittings, if your gonna water cool use a pump, RADS,REZ,BLOCKS, tubing and fittings are up to you. Plus if you go the custom route everything but the GPU blocks is re useable...........Money well spent.
(HINT: BITS POWER FITTINGS JUNK!)

No, planning on going AIO with the GPU.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Not to offend ANYBODY and it's just my opinion, you minds well toss your money in a slot machine for all the good they do. And you want to open it up to 2 GPU'S?
So the blocks for the GPU'S will be a waste and useless after(only good for those cards), IMHO a total waste of time and money. Your never gonna see good enough temps on the GPU'S to even go much higher then the normal overclock on the stock cooler. For $100+ on each GPU? plus all the fittings, if your gonna water cool use a pump, RADS,REZ,BLOCKS, tubing and fittings are up to you. Plus if you go the custom route everything but the GPU blocks is re useable...........Money well spent.
(HINT: BITS POWER FITTINGS JUNK!)

I finally just found the OC'ing sweet-spot for my two MSI GTX-970s. While you should be able to find a stable 1500 Mhz for the core of a single 970 and even 8,000 Mhz for the memory, two in SLI may change the equation. I find myself bumping up the voltage 15 mV to secure a clock of 1,470, and I'm only pushing the memory to 7,500. This keeps the air-cooled temperature on the upper and hotter card to 76 or 77C depending on room ambient between 78 and 80F. That is, the temperatures occur under FurMark 4xAA 1080p stress-test loading, Heaven with similar settings doesn't exceed 65C. The maximum range on the cores of these cards is about 1600, but the TDP or power limit can't be loosened beyond 110%. Since I'd like to keep the maximum temperatures below 78/80C, and since gaming loads under this regime are closer to 55-60C range, Why would I spend $122 each for EK full-cover waterblocks, and all the other parts -- reservoir, D5 pumps, fittings, etc.?

On the other hand, if one invested in the latest 12GB Titan cards, they'll be good for so long, and you'd be advised to sell them sooner to keep up with the next iteration, or keep them as long as you can. If you invest in a single $1,000 Titan card, you might think it wise to spend $122 on the waterblock. And obviously, if you invested in two of them, you'd double the waterblock expense to $244.

So it's the difference between investing $700 for two 970 cards, $1,100 to $1,200 for two 980 cards, and a couple Grand for the El Supremo Titan cards. It will affect your preference for cooling. At the lower end of total outlays, you may do just fine for air-cooling.