Convince me that I don't want a Golf GTI

[DrMrLordX]

And there is only one trim for the R, though it also means they don't get any of the options that the Europeans get (sad).

Which options?

 

[rstrohkirch]

Which options?

IIRC, the only options you had on the previous model in the US was manual or automatic, exterior color and wheel color. From there you had the usual things like extended warranty, floor mats, a net, etc. They made the rest of the stuff standard.

 

[zinfamous]

Which options?

^[in reply to rstrohkirch]

yes, the earlier 305hp you mentioned were for the European Rs. US only topped out at 288hp. Now, according to C&D, the US R is supposed to get the 315hp standard, but I'm honestly not sure if they are reporting this based on the European Golf R. They didn't really say that, IIRC, which means they would be ignoring the known history of the US getting hp downgrades compared to Europe (I believe the standard mk7.5 Euro GTI--both performance pack and 2019 models, which basically made the pp standard--topped out at 240hp. US only got 228 hp). So far, those video tests posted are indeed the European Golf R, so they aren't going to be bothering with telling us how the US might get shafted. Anyway, not sure if the US numbers are confirmed, as the only details I have seen about release of the Golf R in the US report essentially what is known about the Euro spec R, and don't mention anything about the typical performance nerfs.

...but they also claim lack of options, which, in response to DrMrLordX:

There is an upgraded exhaust pack (~$3k, lol; edit: actually it's 3.1k BLBs, loler), and a few other things that I forget off the top of my head

@ 11min or so in on the CarWow review. It's a Krapovisch? system. It might just add more farts/throatier sound Not sure; but at ~5k USD, it better add more performance. The pipes are sexier. and yes, throatier: @9min in the Straight Pipes video. ...it's valved and it changes with the driving mode (real outside sound, not the cabin sound that is synthetic through the soundakter)

Now, C&D doesn't mention this stuff, which makes me think they are reporting accurate specs for the US, but I wish they would clarify that. We already know the US GTI mk8 is going to get less HP compared to Europe, so it only makes sense that they should specifically say that the Euro Golf R will be sending the same HP to the US. Germans seem to think our ave. climate can't handle the hps (at least with their preferred engine designs), so they tune US-bound versions of the same engine for "greater" climate abuse. Or something.

...I also doubt that the US R will come with tinted rear windows as standard. Various states aren't going to like that.

In the US, the R doesn't tend to get any options; it's just the top of the top and, I think, only in 2019 did you get the one-time bizarre choice of about 300 paint options.

And yeah--if the US just crams all of that into one standard package without options (I seriously doubt that we will see the fancy exhaust and tinted windows), expect that huge jump in price: $50-55k to make more sense.

Still, the dozen or so new stiffness adjustment levels, better, lighter brakes and calipers, much improved sequential AWD system and increased hp (whatever it ends up being here...) is going to be a huge lift. I wouldn't be surprised to see 305hp instead of 315, though. It's still the same 2L E888 engine or whatever, and the Germans have been slower to allow those tunes in the US models from year to year.

 

[pauldun170]

i would just like to say I now feel icky after talking to one VW dealer.

 

[zinfamous]

i would just like to say I now feel icky after talking to one VW dealer.

I really didn't enjoy my experience with one of the dealers around here. One was OK, and I wanted to work with them, but he only wanted to get me back into the shop and wouldn't talk money over the phone.

The 3rd would deal. I never met them personally because they are like 40 miles away, and he eventually called me back after about 4 days when I didn't like their first offer and we worked it out. Met him to pick it up and it was all rather smooth. No real bullshit at all.

Don't worry, I'll keep my GTI nice and shiny for you if it comes down to it. I'm going to get a local dude to detail it once my Biden bucks show up (local dude that cleaned up my Mazda 3 for the sale 2 years ago). Maybe you can finance my new R at the end of the year?

(seriously no--let's not even joke)

 

[rstrohkirch]

Once you start getting to the 50K mark or above you really should be doing some research on what markets are giving the best deals. It's fairly common to have some markets giving 0-4% off while others could be double that. After shipping you could save yourself 1-2k even off a 50k vehicle if you live in a market where dealers aren't willing to negotiate.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I would feel weird spending over $50k for a Golf R when you can get a base model 2021 'vette for around $60k. Might be waiting awhile to actually get the car, grantedl. It's not the same animal, but once you get up in that price range, Chevy makes things uncomfortable.

 

[repoman0]

I would feel weird spending over $50k for a Golf R when you can get a base model 2021 'vette for around $60k. Might be waiting awhile to actually get the car, grantedl. It's not the same animal, but once you get up in that price range, Chevy makes things uncomfortable.

Only problem with the vette is its loudness, in the visual/looks and road presence sense (maybe exhaust too, no idea). People will always look at it and pay attention to it due to its styling, much less so or not at all with a Golf R. To some people, myself included, that makes it a no go, though it really seems like a crazy vehicle, especially for the price. No manual last I knew though, may have changed since.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Only problem with the vette is its loudness, in the visual/looks and road presence sense (maybe exhaust too, no idea). People will always look at it and pay attention to it due to its styling, much less so or not at all with a Golf R. To some people, myself included, that makes it a no go, though it really seems like a crazy vehicle, especially for the price. No manual last I knew though, may have changed since.

Yeah it is a head turner. If you want something more subdued then a hatch may be more appropriate. And that 4.7 0-60 on the Mk8 is stupid fast (even if what we get in the States might wind up being slower). And maybe it's closer to 4.5s?

That being said

~$50k+ for 4.7 0-60 or
~$60k for 2.9 0-60

ehhhh

I was even looking at the Ariel Atom variants and the 'vette basically outperforms every one they've ever made with the exception of the limited dual-'busa engine one that you can't get. It's a tube frame chassis with no real interior that you probably need to wear goggles to drive and . . . the 'vette is faster. With air conditioning. And a roof. Chevy screwed up everything.

I know this is a Golf/VW thread, and if you take the 'vette off the table, it's hard to argue with that kind of performance for the money. There are a lot of more-expensive "performance" vehicles out there that cost more. A used 2022 R in the 40k range might be possible in 2-3 years. About when VW is getting ready to halt production of ICE autos anyway, incidentally.

 

[pauldun170]

I really didn't enjoy my experience with one of the dealers around here. One was OK, and I wanted to work with them, but he only wanted to get me back into the shop and wouldn't talk money over the phone.

The 3rd would deal. I never met them personally because they are like 40 miles away, and he eventually called me back after about 4 days when I didn't like their first offer and we worked it out. Met him to pick it up and it was all rather smooth. No real bullshit at all.

Don't worry, I'll keep my GTI nice and shiny for you if it comes down to it. I'm going to get a local dude to detail it once my Biden bucks show up (local dude that cleaned up my Mazda 3 for the sale 2 years ago). Maybe you can finance my new R at the end of the year?

(seriously no--let's not even joke)

I was intending to just buy yours but I might be too impatient\impulsive to wait for you to be ready to upgrade to a Golf R.

 

[rstrohkirch]

I would feel weird spending over $50k for a Golf R when you can get a base model 2021 'vette for around $60k. Might be waiting awhile to actually get the car, grantedl. It's not the same animal, but once you get up in that price range, Chevy makes things uncomfortable.

You can't really compare a 2 seat sports car to a vehicle that offers utility regardless of speed. Most people who can daily drive a 2 seat sports car wouldn't be crossing shopping them against something like a hot hatch. But people generally don't have the financial means or space to have multiple purpose specific vehicles so they need things like backseats and useful trunks. It's the reason you have fast sedans like the c63, Gulia quad, m2, m3, etc

 

[zinfamous]

I was intending to just buy yours but I might be too impatient\impulsive to wait for you to be ready to upgrade to a Golf R.

Yes, this thread would get really weird then. If I were to replace this thing with an R, it would have to be a used one a few years from now (though, used, tolerable mileage Rs are hard to find around here. I assume this will still be the case several years out)...once I'm approaching the end of 6 year warranty and probably still only 15k miles on it, haha.

as for the vette...yeah, not the same type of comparison. I love the C8, but those can only ever be a 2nd car, right? If I'm looking at 2nd cars, then yes, the vette is probably going to win out over the R (but consider that you aren't going to buy a C8 without optioning it out to about $75-80k, right? Considering you aren't going to find the base trim on lots anywhere, and you wouldn't "want it" anyway, right? then the dealer markup on those things).

I think current available model years still have no manual, and it hasn't been confirmed if Chevy plans to option one in years to come. Fans assume it will happen, though. I kind of doubt it....all the cars in its class have abandoned manuals for years now, afaik.

Golf R can double as the "distinguished, yet practical man about town" car as well as the racer. It's still a one car option. Hey, and the US version will also offer a manual transmission (unlike the Euro version...so at least there is that and, uh, probably another VW excuse to add a weak-ass, cheap clutch as they do on their GTIs....)

I also don't have a garage (OK, I do...but it's currently leased out to the camel crickets and black widows and whatever small mammals can defeat my rudimentary barriers....yes, I need to fix that space. But that's another ~$5k minimum to get it up to spec to store something like a C8 in there. It is detached and the good news is that it already has 60A service, so that's nice)

 

[pauldun170]

Yes, this thread would get really weird then. If I were to replace this thing with an R, it would have to be a used one a few years from now...once I'm approaching the end of 6 year warranty and probably still only 15k miles on it, haha.

as for the vette...yeah, not the same type of comparison. I love the C8, but those can only ever be a 2nd car, right? If I'm looking at 2nd cars, then yes, the vette is probably going to win out over the R (but consider that you aren't going to buy a C8 without optioning it out to about $75-80k, right? Considering you aren't going to find the base trim on lots anywhere, and you wouldn't "want it" anyway, right? then the dealer markup on those things)

Golf R can double as the "distinguished, yet practical man about town" car as well as the racer. It's still a one car option.

I also don't have a garage (OK, I do...but it's currently leased out to the camel crickets and black widows and whatever small mammals can defeat my rudimentary barriers....yes, I need to fix that space. But that's another ~$5k minimum to get it up to spec to store something like a C8 in there. It is detached and the good news is that it already has 60A service, so that's nice)

Side Note: As soon as you said Camel crickets I automatically turned around while screaming "FUCKERS" to check the ground behind my chair.
FYI on the Side note: Strips of duct tape ( the real deal...not the cheapo off brand crap) face up at key locations will implement the murder on those bastards.

 

[DrMrLordX]

You can't really compare a 2 seat sports car to a vehicle that offers utility regardless of speed.

I mean yeahhhhh but let's face it, utility is not why I would be buying a Golf R. Sure it has four doors etc. I would probably have another car for daily driving/doing things for which I would need four doors and trunk space. It would be kind of fun to daily drive a Golf R, but inevitably I would leave it parked most of the time. Unless I had it on lease or something.

 

[pauldun170]

I mean yeahhhhh but let's face it, utility is not why I would be buying a Golf R. Sure it has four doors etc. I would probably have another car for daily driving/doing things for which I would need four doors and trunk space. It would be kind of fun to daily drive a Golf R, but inevitably I would leave it parked most of the time. Unless I had it on lease or something.

I believe this is the classic car forum thread workflow
Can't justify spending 40K on car (x) when I can spend 50K on car (Y)
Honestly, I looked at car (Y) but 50K seems pretty ridiculous when you can just get car (z) 60K.
However, once you look at bang for the buck, you can't beat car (H) when you get the best of both worlds for 70K.
There is the fact that while car (H) is awesome, you are getting awfully close car (T) money and you can probably get a base model for 80K.
Have you thought about car (n)? If you are looking at car(T) money it's probably worth checking out a leftover car (t) at a very reasonable 90K.

Toss in a couple of...
Instead of spending 50K on car (X) you should spend 60K on car (C) and then spend another 15K on a beater car (w).

The question does demand some solid begging though....
What's a legit competitor to the Golf R in the US market?
(New..not used)
Same price point?
Same practicality?

Civic Type R?
STI?

 

[ondma]

I believe this is the classic car forum thread workflow
Can't justify spending 40K on car (x) when I can spend 50K on car (Y)
Honestly, I looked at car (Y) but 50K seems pretty ridiculous when you can just get car (z) 60K.
However, once you look at bang for the buck, you can't beat car (H) when you get the best of both worlds for 70K.
There is the fact that while car (H) is awesome, you are getting awfully close car (T) money and you can probably get a base model for 80K.
Have you thought about car (n)? If you are looking at car(T) money it's probably worth checking out a leftover car (t) at a very reasonable 90K.

Toss in a couple of...
Instead of spending 50K on car (X) you should spend 60K on car (C) and then spend another 15K on a beater car (w).

The question does demand some solid begging though....
What's a legit competitor to the Golf R in the US market?
(New..not used)
Same price point?
Same practicality?

Civic Type R?
STI?

I dont think there is a real competitor right now to the R. Hopefully, the new Subaru WRX/STI be much more refined and competitive for day to day driving as well as offering better preformance. Supposed to have more horsepower, and a stiffer chassis based on the new global platform. The car magazines seem to love the Civic R, but despite what they say, I think 300 HP is too much for FWD, even in a good climate. For sure here in MN I would not want to drive it in snow.

 

[Fenixgoon]

apparently the hyundai veloster N is the hotness - R&Ts 2020 performance car of the year

2020 Performance Car of the Year

Eleven worthy competitors, one surprising winner.

www.roadandtrack.com

not that i hardcore follow cars as much these days, but if didn't have my mazda3 already and wanted 1 car to do it all...this might just be it.

 

[ondma]

apparently the hyundai veloster N is the hotness - R&Ts 2020 performance car of the year

2020 Performance Car of the Year

Eleven worthy competitors, one surprising winner.

www.roadandtrack.com

not that i hardcore follow cars as much these days, but if didn't have my mazda3 already and wanted 1 car to do it all...this might just be it.

I think it lacks the refinement of the Golf R. It also is more of a sporty car, (shall we say....unique styling and less room for luggage and passengers than the Golf.)

 

[pauldun170]

I dont think there is a real competitor right now to the R. Hopefully, the new Subaru WRX/STI be much more refined and competitive for day to day driving as well as offering better preformance. Supposed to have more horsepower, and a stiffer chassis based on the new global platform. The car magazines seem to love the Civic R, but despite what they say, I think 300 HP is too much for FWD, even in a good climate. For sure here in MN I would not want to drive it in snow.

The things counting against the Civic R is the front view. The side view and the rear view. I admit it. I can't even....
I'm sure its fun to drive but I just can't.
I do admit that "The People" are correct that's its an excellent competitor. I believe it has more room inside and the back seat is bigger.
The Civic R does have a mechanical LSD so that should make a world of difference putting power to the ground.

STI's another solid choice and I probably wouldn't even being visiting VW dealerships if they still sold the hatchback version of the WRX family.

 

[ondma]

The things counting against the Civic R is the front view. The side view and the rear view. I admit it. I can't even....
I'm sure its fun to drive but I just can't.
I do admit that "The People" are correct that's its an excellent competitor. I believe it has more room inside and the back seat is bigger.
The Civic R does have a mechanical LSD so that should make a world of difference putting power to the ground.

STI's another solid choice and I probably wouldn't even being visiting VW dealerships if they still sold the hatchback version of the WRX family.

Yea, I dont understand why Subaru stubbornly refuses to do a hatchback version of the WRX. If they arent willing to do that, they could at least put a mildly tuned turbo (something like 200 hp) in the Sport model of the Impreza. ("Sport" for the Impreza now being pretty much of a joke, since you cant even get the 2.5L non-turbo 4 that is available in higher trim levels of the Crosstrek.)

Subaru pretty much had the field to itself for quite a while with Eyesight and a good AWD system, but the competition is getting much stiffer with the Kona and CX30 both having stronger engine options. Subaru needs to up its game in the engine department. Putting the 2.5L in the crosstrek was a start, but they need to make that engine standard across the board in the Crosstrek and Impreza, with a more powerful option for both lines.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Just imagine how many Type R Honda would sell if they had a rear wing delete option.

 

[ondma]

Just imagine how many Type R Honda would sell if they had a rear wing delete option.

Maybe, but they seem to love the wing on the STI. The styling of the Civic R doesnt really bother me, since it is a sporty, limited model, but it took me a long time to adjust the to styling of the standard models. The hatchback, in particular seems over styled.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I believe this is the classic car forum thread workflow
Can't justify spending 40K on car (x) when I can spend 50K on car (Y)
Honestly, I looked at car (Y) but 50K seems pretty ridiculous when you can just get car (z) 60K.

If all you want is bang/buck performance, you can pretty much stop at 60k.

What's a legit competitor to the Golf R in the US market?
(New..not used)
Same price point?
Same practicality?

Probably isn't one. I just can't see myself daily driving a lot of cars that people buy that have such expensive rubber and require 91/93 octane fuel. If you opt for the optional 19s:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?filtering=true&width=235%2F&ratio=35&diameter=19#allTitle

Still I would imagine that a lot of the tires sized for the Golf R will need to be changed out in 20-30k miles at best (if you get those cheap Kumhos, it looks like 8k is more realistic!). I would not daily drive a car like that. I had the pleasure of daily driving a 2019 Jetta S lease car for a year, and the cheap everything plus 42+ mpg mixed fuel economy really won me over.

Yeah you can launch those criticisms at any number of other vehicles out there, including many that would get smoked by a Golf R. I still maintain that if I had one, it would be my second car and it would be sitting most of the time. I would treat it pretty much the same way I would treat a two-door performance coupe with no trunk.

 

[zinfamous]

ooo, that's a discount on the PS4S! Though, I think the new PS4+, which are all season tires and actually surprisingly performant and last a good bit longer, are very popular as a replacement and are a bit cheaper (I think the C8 Corvette ships with them?). The Continentals are also a little bit cheaper, IIRC.

Now, this probably doesn't apply to the R, but I know I can get up to 41mpg on the GTI...uh, on the highway. My interstate trips are very efficient. City driving (98% for me) is more like 22-24mpg.

I get what you're saying though--if it really ends up being that much of a track monster--if all these numbers that are trickling out turn out to be true, it's sort of hard to imagine it being treated like a "daily beater." It ceases being the "One car for all [persons]" to "OK, WHAT are you?"

If Matt or whatever at CarWow really did get 4.03 on 0-60, stock, and it did beat their Nerurfbirgring times between models by ~13seconds or whatever they said, I'm wondering what this thing can do with even the most basic of initial tunes: tires and stage 1.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I'm wondering what this thing can do with even the most basic of initial tunes: tires and stage 1.

I wanna know if the mk8 dsg still has a launch control counter.