Cooling a Q6600

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Noubourne

Senior member
Dec 15, 2003
751
0
76
Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
ANOTHER AFTERTHOUGHT: Noubourne DOES have the G0, and I'm now guessing he's reporting a range of the individual core values. [Still a bit toasty for my taste, though.]

A bit toasty, yes.

Also safe imo.

What these stress tests do to a core is more than any normal program or game that I run will be able to push. I haven't checked after or during gaming sessions, but I would be surprised if normal usage resulted in anything over 65C, and then only for a short period of time.

Also, I've left speedstep enabled, so it undervolts and drops the clockspeed a bit when I'm not using the chip. Most overclockers do not do this.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
Do you re-enable SpeedStep after you've settled on an over-clock setting-regime? Or during the stress-testing?
 

snowtd

Junior Member
Jul 29, 2006
10
0
0
A quick question about the Q6600. How hot is too hot?

Right now I'm running at stock speeds with the stock HS and getting idles of 42c and around 60c under dual Orthos load (using Speedfan).

I'd love to get the temps down a bit (the little flame icon in Speedfan scares me) but I really don't want to take out the motherboard to put a back plate on for a huge cooler, and I'm also concerned about the weight of a huge cooler flexing the MB (in a vertical MB installation).

Any ideas or should I leave well enough alone?
 

adairusmc

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2006
7,095
78
91
Originally posted by: snowtd
A quick question about the Q6600. How hot is too hot?

Right now I'm running at stock speeds with the stock HS and getting idles of 42c and around 60c under dual Orthos load (using Speedfan).

I'd love to get the temps down a bit (the little flame icon in Speedfan scares me) but I really don't want to take out the motherboard to put a back plate on for a huge cooler, and I'm also concerned about the weight of a huge cooler flexing the MB (in a vertical MB installation).

Any ideas or should I leave well enough alone?

What are your core temps?

That does sound a little toasty.
 

snowtd

Junior Member
Jul 29, 2006
10
0
0
Originally posted by: adairusmc
Originally posted by: snowtd
A quick question about the Q6600. How hot is too hot?

Right now I'm running at stock speeds with the stock HS and getting idles of 42c and around 60c under dual Orthos load (using Speedfan).

I'd love to get the temps down a bit (the little flame icon in Speedfan scares me) but I really don't want to take out the motherboard to put a back plate on for a huge cooler, and I'm also concerned about the weight of a huge cooler flexing the MB (in a vertical MB installation).

Any ideas or should I leave well enough alone?

What are your core temps?

That does sound a little toasty.

Core temps max out aroun 58 C with idles between 39 C to 41 C

The system is in a partially enclosed cabinet so the ambient temps can get a little warm. I'm thinking of putting some fans in the cabinet to improve air flow. Not sure if I should do that first or invest in a real HS.
 

adairusmc

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2006
7,095
78
91
Originally posted by: snowtd
Originally posted by: adairusmc
Originally posted by: snowtd
A quick question about the Q6600. How hot is too hot?

Right now I'm running at stock speeds with the stock HS and getting idles of 42c and around 60c under dual Orthos load (using Speedfan).

I'd love to get the temps down a bit (the little flame icon in Speedfan scares me) but I really don't want to take out the motherboard to put a back plate on for a huge cooler, and I'm also concerned about the weight of a huge cooler flexing the MB (in a vertical MB installation).

Any ideas or should I leave well enough alone?

What are your core temps?

That does sound a little toasty.

Core temps max out aroun 58 C with idles between 39 C to 41 C

The system is in a partially enclosed cabinet so the ambient temps can get a little warm. I'm thinking of putting some fans in the cabinet to improve air flow. Not sure if I should do that first or invest in a real HS.

Well, if you want a higher-end cooler but do not want to install a backplate, this could be an option for you -

http://www.anandtech.com/casec...howdoc.aspx?i=2962&p=8

My boss has one of those OCZ vindicators on his quad and has fairly good results - and you do not have to install a backplate. Just an option for you.

Try seeing how it runs outside of the cabinet first though, maybe the ambient temps in there are to blame more than anything else.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
Well, if you're not planning to over-clock it, you could leave it alone -- the 60C load is within the Intel spec. Somewhere here, I posted a link to a C2D thermal guide, and you'd want to visit Intel to check the thermal specs on the Q6600, but the throttling limit -- I thought -- for the Q6600 was maybe 63 or 65C for TCase. Your individual core temperatures would be 15C higher for a C2D processor, but I've found that mine are only about 7 or 8C higher for the C2Q. Those of us with OC'd Q6600's are probably showing a load TCase temperature somewhere between the high 40's and upper 50's Celsius.

This Vindicator is definitely not for OC'ing the Q6600, or it imposes limitations -- judging from the "performance scaling" graphs in the Anandtech review. But it's nice that you don't have to pop out the mobo initially, as with these other coolers.

Adair -- I've bumped up my VCORE to 1.4125V and running at 3.2 Ghz. My high Core #0 load value at 74F/23C is pushin' about 60 to 61C. At 80F, the Core 0 would scale up to around 67C. Since you got such a big improvement lapping your U-120-Extreme, how am I doin'?

I can push it about another 6 or 8 Mhz at the same voltage by loosening the timings, but that's about it.
 

poco153

Junior Member
Dec 21, 2004
7
0
0
Well, I put a washer under the heatsink bracket and was met with more difficulty in attaching the bracket, but it is also much harder to turn the heatsink. Temperatures seem to have dropped 2 or 3C, although it makes more a difference under load, perhaps closer to 5C. I'm thinking about maybe slipping a thicker washer under the bracket, or maybe adding a thin one to the already positioned one to see if I can get it on tighter. Will the coil-over screws prevent me from breaking anything?

I've been talking my Vcore lower and lower with no troubles. Right now, it's a bit below 1.16v and has been running stable for a few days, including a good 10 hours of ORTHOS. Idle temps are 39/37/40/39, load temps are between 52 and 55.

One problem that i have been having is as such: I have been trying to do a little overclocking, just to a 1200MHz FSB yielding 2.7GHz. I got the voltage to a place where the computer boots fine, I even had orthos running for 10+ hours with no trouble, yet when I tried to run Half-Life 2, it crashed almost instantly. I upped the voltage 2 steps and then tried again with the same results: orthos ran fine, but HL2 crashed after loading the menu.

Thanks,
 

adairusmc

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2006
7,095
78
91
Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck


Adair -- I've bumped up my VCORE to 1.4125V and running at 3.2 Ghz. My high Core #0 load value at 74F/23C is pushin' about 60 to 61C. At 80F, the Core 0 would scale up to around 67C. Since you got such a big improvement lapping your U-120-Extreme, how am I doin'?

You are doing better than I am at 3Ghz, though I think that is mostly because the ambient temp of my computer room has been around 75-79F, depending on time of day.

I bumped my voltage up a little a few days ago, though my overclock was 13 hours Orthos stable, I had a random lock-up the other day. I bumped it to 1.31 and it seems to be running great (it is running an orthos test at home right now). I also switched to Zalman STG-1 thermal paste instead of the Arctic Silver 5 I have been using (ran out of the AS5, all we had was the zalman stuff at work).

Right now my idle temps are about 29C overall, core temps all in the low 40's. After a couple of hours of orthos, the load temps are about 55C overall, with core temps running around 65,65,62,61. To me that is still doing pretty good. I don't have any ducting mods, nor am I using that diamond thermal paste, which definitely gives you the temperature advantage. At the higher voltage, I was pusing almost 70C on the core temps, and the idle temp was around 38C before the lapping of the heatsink.

I probably could have lapped it better than I did (did not make it shine or anything, it was a dull copper color, but it was smooth and flat). I could not find any super-fine grit sandpaper at our local wal-mart at 10pm last night, so I used what I could get.
 

Noubourne

Senior member
Dec 15, 2003
751
0
76
Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
Do you re-enable SpeedStep after you've settled on an over-clock setting-regime? Or during the stress-testing?

I left it on for testing. Some said it may have an impact on the OC, so I left it on to be sure that I was stable.

I just got this and in the coming weeks (when the weather is bad) I'll be testing some different OC settings to see if I can't get more out of my RAM and CPU, but for now I wanted the highest stable OC with speedstep enabled. I am hoping to somewhat offset the higher voltage on my OC with running lower volts when I'm not using it.

I have never done this with a chip before, and I've never burnt one out either (not OCing anyway), but I figured it was a good opportunity to save some power and possibly lessen the impact of OCing.

Of course, if I disable it and manage to squeeze out another few hundred Mhz, then I'll probably bite the bullet and leave it turned off.
 

Noubourne

Senior member
Dec 15, 2003
751
0
76
Originally posted by: poco153
Well, I put a washer under the heatsink bracket and was met with more difficulty in attaching the bracket, but it is also much harder to turn the heatsink. Temperatures seem to have dropped 2 or 3C, although it makes more a difference under load, perhaps closer to 5C. I'm thinking about maybe slipping a thicker washer under the bracket, or maybe adding a thin one to the already positioned one to see if I can get it on tighter. Will the coil-over screws prevent me from breaking anything?

I've been talking my Vcore lower and lower with no troubles. Right now, it's a bit below 1.16v and has been running stable for a few days, including a good 10 hours of ORTHOS. Idle temps are 39/37/40/39, load temps are between 52 and 55.

One problem that i have been having is as such: I have been trying to do a little overclocking, just to a 1200MHz FSB yielding 2.7GHz. I got the voltage to a place where the computer boots fine, I even had orthos running for 10+ hours with no trouble, yet when I tried to run Half-Life 2, it crashed almost instantly. I upped the voltage 2 steps and then tried again with the same results: orthos ran fine, but HL2 crashed after loading the menu.

Thanks,

No, the spring screws will not prevent you from cracking your mobo. Adding more tension will make it more likely that you will ruin your motherboard.

If that much more pressure is making a difference, you may consider lapping your IHS and heatsink. Doesn't do any good to lap one and not the other! The IHS is almost always concave, and the heatsink convex. Interesting how that turned out, isn't it! I guess TR doesn't pay their engineers and do all kinds of lab testing for nothing!

More stress on those boards around the socket may cause them to bend, and bending is bad. Thus the backplates. Backplates take the pressure OFF the board.

As far as stress testing goes, your OC should be stable for everything you do. Just because it passes a stress test doesn't mean it's "3D" stable. Hardcore gamers tend to run at least one (if not all 3) 3dMark programs, plus a few of their favorite games as well on top of the regular P95 and Memtest in order to ensure they will not have problems like you describe. You might consider adding some of those to your own testing.
 

adairusmc

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2006
7,095
78
91
Originally posted by: Noubourne
Originally posted by: poco153
Well, I put a washer under the heatsink bracket and was met with more difficulty in attaching the bracket, but it is also much harder to turn the heatsink. Temperatures seem to have dropped 2 or 3C, although it makes more a difference under load, perhaps closer to 5C. I'm thinking about maybe slipping a thicker washer under the bracket, or maybe adding a thin one to the already positioned one to see if I can get it on tighter. Will the coil-over screws prevent me from breaking anything?

I've been talking my Vcore lower and lower with no troubles. Right now, it's a bit below 1.16v and has been running stable for a few days, including a good 10 hours of ORTHOS. Idle temps are 39/37/40/39, load temps are between 52 and 55.

One problem that i have been having is as such: I have been trying to do a little overclocking, just to a 1200MHz FSB yielding 2.7GHz. I got the voltage to a place where the computer boots fine, I even had orthos running for 10+ hours with no trouble, yet when I tried to run Half-Life 2, it crashed almost instantly. I upped the voltage 2 steps and then tried again with the same results: orthos ran fine, but HL2 crashed after loading the menu.

Thanks,


If that much more pressure is making a difference, you may consider lapping your IHS and heatsink. Doesn't do any good to lap one and not the other!

Yes it does do good. Lapping my heatsink dropped my temps by 7C. There is no way in hell I will ever consider lapping the IHS, I would rather give up overclocking forever.

 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
Originally posted by: adairusmc
Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck


Adair -- I've bumped up my VCORE to 1.4125V and running at 3.2 Ghz. My high Core #0 load value at 74F/23C is pushin' about 60 to 61C. At 80F, the Core 0 would scale up to around 67C. Since you got such a big improvement lapping your U-120-Extreme, how am I doin'?

You are doing better than I am at 3Ghz, though I think that is mostly because the ambient temp of my computer room has been around 75-79F, depending on time of day.

I bumped my voltage up a little a few days ago, though my overclock was 13 hours Orthos stable, I had a random lock-up the other day. I bumped it to 1.31 and it seems to be running great (it is running an orthos test at home right now). I also switched to Zalman STG-1 thermal paste instead of the Arctic Silver 5 I have been using (ran out of the AS5, all we had was the zalman stuff at work).

Right now my idle temps are about 29C overall, core temps all in the low 40's. After a couple of hours of orthos, the load temps are about 55C overall, with core temps running around 65,65,62,61. To me that is still doing pretty good. I don't have any ducting mods, nor am I using that diamond thermal paste, which definitely gives you the temperature advantage. At the higher voltage, I was pusing almost 70C on the core temps, and the idle temp was around 38C before the lapping of the heatsink.

I probably could have lapped it better than I did (did not make it shine or anything, it was a dull copper color, but it was smooth and flat). I could not find any super-fine grit sandpaper at our local wal-mart at 10pm last night, so I used what I could get.

You don't need to make it shine. Some people are talking about using 2000-grit wet-or-dry and "Brasso" polish, but at that level of fineness, I don't think it matters. Either the silver or the diamond particles would work their way into the scratches anyway. When I lapped I stopped at 600-grit. Anyway, it's copper. With steel, you could make a mirror finish with 400-grit.

The ducting doesn't show up as much in the CPU temps. What my duct does is mostly to allow me to remove the fans from the heatsink and keep up the air-pressure between them, but this is an efficient cooler, and as long as the air exhausts right away, that part of the duct only helps as I said. I just wish I'd put a thermal sensor on the chipset, because that's where all the other case air is moving. I just checked, and room ambient was 79.1F. The hot Core 0 was bouncing between 63 and 65 with ORTHOS, and the TCase temperature is around 52. With the single core Prescotts, TCase was all you could see with monitoring software, and I considered it an accomplishment to get it down to around 43C with the room at 75F.

"TylerDustin" -- another member here -- is just up and running with a phase-change system. He had it CUSTOM-BUILT. I think he's going to freeze his processor. I think he will be better to run it just above freezing, because contrary to prevailing opinion, the silicon part of the CPUs don't behave like regular metal conductors. I bet he gets it to 5 Ghz!!

I learned a lot here in recent weeks. Unless there is a minor difference in chipset version, you have the same basic mobo ingredients that I have. Some people have been talking about "FSB holes," and today I discovered that all the thresholds on memory latencies that I'd found when running the E6600 processor have shifted -- downward. So when I expect that I need to loosen 3,4,4,8 to 4,3,4,8 at 372 Mhz, it seems that the threshold now is 358. this holds for the threshold between 4,3,4,8 and 4,4,4,10 -- also, now at 387 -- when reviewers using the E6600 C2D for testing said that 4,3,4,8 is good up to 425 Mhz.

I don't think there are any "holes." You just get farther with this processor at lower multiplier settings, if overclocking the memory and front-side-bus is part of the strategy. But from what I've seen with where the VCORE would go to get above 3.2, I think that's as high as it goes for me with multiplier=9. The load voltage with "droop" is around 1.36, or 1% over the retail-box Intel "Maximum." I think that's pretty safe -- hinging on how thoroughly INtel wants to avoid RMAs.

I'll probably try and start a topic on CPU&OC'ing about the latency threshold shifts with the Q6600. I can't quite put together the logic to explain it. I think it has to do with the L1 and L2 sizes for the respective Duo and Quad, and the cache bandwidth under over-clock, but you'd think that the shifts would move in the opposite direction.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
This is an interesting option to reduce temperatures which may be applicable to several ASUS 680i boards:

Q6600 @ 3.00 Ghz [CPU-FSB = 375 Mhz]
Multiplier = 8
FSB = 1,500 Mhz
DDR2 = 750 Mhz
Latencies: Either "Auto" or depends on make and model. Mine are 4,3,4,8,2T [Advanced settings all = "Auto"]

1.2VHT = 1.35 or 1.40V
NB_Core = 1.45V
SB_Core = 1.55V
CPU_VTT = 1.45V
Memory VDIMM = 0.025V below manufacturer recommended maximum
My Crucial Ballistix 2.175V

@ 74.4F room temperature:
core 0 = 56C, core 1 = 55C, core 2 = 50C, core 3 = 52C

 

snowtd

Junior Member
Jul 29, 2006
10
0
0
Well, if you want a higher-end cooler but do not want to install a backplate, this could be an option for you -

http://www.anandtech.com/casec...howdoc.aspx?i=2962&p=8

My boss has one of those OCZ vindicators on his quad and has fairly good results - and you do not have to install a backplate. Just an option for you.

I ended up getting the above HS and installed it today (yes, I know its not the best HS out there but I really wanted a simple install i.e. didn't want to take out the MB).

So far it looks like its dropped temps around 5-6c (and much quieter!)

Pretty happy with that so far (for the ease of installing), maybe it'll get even better once the AS5 cures.

Thanks for all the help!
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
Just "dropping in" after being "away" for a few days.

A cooler like the OCZ, or any cooler which improves on the stock-cooler's performance by several degrees Celsius, is a viable option. It is more viable to the extent that the consumer has less interest -- or much more casual interest -- in over-clocking his system.

Also -- I may try, if I have the time, to prove it more conclusively -- there are some very cheap options available which would cool the motherboard components and probably compensate for any shortfalls in CPU cooling -- thus making over-clocking less dependent on "having the very best air or water-cooling support for the CPU."

 

poco153

Junior Member
Dec 21, 2004
7
0
0
I'm back again!

I've been packing up and moving to school, and I have finally gotten everything back to normal in my dorm. My overclocking-savvy friend stopped by and gave me a hand with tweaking my processor to actually work. At present, I'm running at 3.0GHz (1333MHz FSB) with a voltage of (I think) 1.27v. Temperatures under load (Prime95 maximum heat x4) are settled about 60 (60/61/59/58). Idles were between 48 and 51.

Edit:

I've been stress-testing at this speed, and it seems to not be quite stable yet. Prime95 ran for 10+hours on two of the cores, while the other two gave unexpected answers at 1.5hours and 3 hours. I'll keep playing with the voltages, I suppose, until it decides to play nice.
 
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