Cops have killed 400 people in 2015, one every 7 hours and 30 minutes

[Darwin333]

Cop killing isn't always murder. Most of the time it is justified and lots are just accidents. That alone leaves the numbers pretty darn slim for your suspected "murders".

I agree completely, I hope that you could also agree that cops wrongfully or needlessly kill FAR more people in a years time than cops killed by bad guys.

So as a beginning to the conversation can we at least agree that the overly aggressive tactics being deployed as of late in the name of "officer safety" are unwarranted at best and complete bullshit at worst? Lets not forget that those overly aggressive tactics can and do put innocent civilians at risk, sometimes fatally.

Every single man I employ has a far more dangerous job than being a police officer. We do everything we can to minimize that risk except putting other people, involved or not, at greater risk. It's simply unconscionable to me to put the man standing beside me, or worse some innocent person walking down the street, at risk just to minimize my risk that I knew and accepted full well when I took my job and when I put my boots on that morning.

 

[brycejones]

For starters, you said that cops can't indict, when they de-facto can indict pretty much anybody. Secondly, you tried to act like indicting this texas cop is somehow a horrible thing that affects him so badly, it doesn't. Investigation would be concluded in minutes and he would be given back pay.

Again, it is a fact cops don't indict a single person, it can be a prosecutor or through the grand jury process. The only person attempting to cover for their ignorance is you.

You do understand that an indictment comes after an investigation right? And that the resolution to an indictment involves a trial or at least significant legal proceedings even if it is dismissed for lack of evidence that would take at least months? Doesn't matter if the investigation was concluded within minutes since the process would take months.

I assume you would start foaming at the mouth over any investigation that really only took minutes and start whining about a cover-up and whitewash based on your tone in this thread.

 

[Darwin333]

I guess that explains why your earlier statement was incorrect then.

Still waiting for you to respond to this one:

So in your world we should indict whoever shot the two assholes in Texas and have a trial to make sure it was justified? No matter what the circumstances are place the officer on leave without pay, indict them regardless of the evidence, wait 1-2 years for the case to wind its way through the legal system and then give them back pay if they are found not guilty? Is that really your position?

Actually, the police union in parts of Texas recently "negotiated" that cops involved in a shooting have a full 3 days and prior access to all evidence including any and all video of the incident before they even have to give their report of what happened.

If one of my guys is in a simple fender bender in a company vehicle I require a complete report on my desk as soon as humanly possible. Hell they have a little pamphlet in their glove boxes to write down and draw the entire incident that I demand they do before (or as soon as humanly possible) even leaving the scene. Wanna know why, people forget shit. The details get fuzzy and 8 months later when I'm getting sued a lawyer will eat up "fuzzy" memory.

I can't think of a single solitary reason that waiting 3 full days and reviewing all evidence BEFORE giving a report as to why you fired a weapon is even remotely a good idea unless your attempt is to come up with a good story (read: LIE) that corroborates with the evidence. Can you?

 

[pcgeek11]

What did I misrepresent?

Oh and:

So in your world we should indict whoever shot the two assholes in Texas and have a trial to make sure it was justified? No matter what the circumstances are place the officer on leave without pay, indict them regardless of the evidence, wait 1-2 years for the case to wind its way through the legal system and then give them back pay if they are found not guilty? Is that really your position?

For starters, you said that cops can't indict, when they de-facto can indict pretty much anybody. Secondly, you tried to act like indicting this texas cop is somehow a horrible thing that affects him so badly, it doesn't. Investigation would be concluded in minutes and he would be given back pay.
Oh and:


Yes you tard that is my position. Next stupid question?



edit: You are just a glutton for punishment huh? No shame. Masochist?

That is the stupidest position I have ever read on any subject.

 

[brycejones]

The op's approach of suspend them without pay, indict them all, and have a trial to determine if it was justified or criminal is simple minded and short sighted. Its overly punitive to those who through doing their jobs have to make a tough call and its also unnecessarily expensive.

I think the low hanging fruit is improved and standardized reporting of any instance where an officer's actions lead to a death (car cash, shooting, etc). A next step beyond that could be requiring agencies outside of the department where the officer was employed investigate those deaths.

 

[brycejones]

Actually, the police union in parts of Texas recently "negotiated" that cops involved in a shooting have a full 3 days and prior access to all evidence including any and all video of the incident before they even have to give their report of what happened.

If one of my guys is in a simple fender bender in a company vehicle I require a complete report on my desk as soon as humanly possible. Hell they have a little pamphlet in their glove boxes to write down and draw the entire incident that I demand they do before (or as soon as humanly possible) even leaving the scene. Wanna know why, people forget shit. The details get fuzzy and 8 months later when I'm getting sued a lawyer will eat up "fuzzy" memory.

I can't think of a single solitary reason that waiting 3 full days and reviewing all evidence BEFORE giving a report as to why you fired a weapon is even remotely a good idea unless your attempt is to come up with a good story (read: LIE) that corroborates with the evidence. Can you?

I don't disagree with you.

 

[pcgeek11]

I agree completely, I hope that you could also agree that cops wrongfully or needlessly kill FAR more people in a years time than cops killed by bad guys.

So as a beginning to the conversation can we at least agree that the overly aggressive tactics being deployed as of late in the name of "officer safety" are unwarranted at best and complete bullshit at worst? Lets not forget that those overly aggressive tactics can and do put innocent civilians at risk, sometimes fatally.

Every single man I employ has a far more dangerous job than being a police officer. We do everything we can to minimize that risk except putting other people, involved or not, at greater risk. It's simply unconscionable to me to put the man standing beside me, or worse some innocent person walking down the street, at risk just to minimize my risk that I knew and accepted full well when I took my job and when I put my boots on that morning.

I don't know the actual numbers but just based on the ratio between the two I would agree that the cops probably shoot far more people in a years time than the number of cops killed by bad guys/girls.

 

[touchstone]

Again, it is a fact cops don't indict a single person, it can be a prosecutor or through the grand jury process. The only person attempting to cover for their ignorance is you.

You do understand that an indictment comes after an investigation right? And that the resolution to an indictment involves a trial or at least significant legal proceedings even if it is dismissed for lack of evidence that would take at least months? Doesn't matter if the investigation was concluded within minutes since the process would take months.

I assume you would start foaming at the mouth over any investigation that really only took minutes and start whining about a cover-up and whitewash based on your tone in this thread.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wik...hrome&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8#q=de+facto+definition

Today you learned the meaning of the word 'de-facto', you're welcome


The rest of your argument is stupidity. Why would it take a month when the guy already claimed responsibility and is dead? Are cops so stupid that even when investigating their friends, they need months to figure out their ass from a hole in the ground?


wait, don't answer that....


waiting for you to answer a SINGLE ONE of my questions. You can't though, so that's alright. We can settle on you looking stupid by your own volition.

 

[brycejones]

https://www.google.com/search?q=wik...hrome&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8#q=de+facto+definition

Today you learned the meaning of the word 'de-facto', you're welcome


The rest of your argument is stupidity. Why would it take a month when the guy already claimed responsibility and is dead? Are cops so stupid that even when investigating their friends, they need months to figure out their ass from a hole in the ground?


wait, don't answer that....


waiting for you to answer a SINGLE ONE of my questions. You can't though, so that's alright. We can settle on you looking stupid by your own volition.

Your lack of self awareness is very entertaining.

 

[touchstone]

The op's approach of suspend them without pay, indict them all, and have a trial to determine if it was justified or criminal is simple minded and short sighted. Its overly punitive to those who through doing their jobs have to make a tough call and its also unnecessarily expensive.

I think the low hanging fruit is improved and standardized reporting of any instance where an officer's actions lead to a death (car cash, shooting, etc). A next step beyond that could be requiring agencies outside of the department where the officer was employed investigate those deaths.

It is not overly punitive. Cops are not gods, you don't get special treatment under employment rules or the justice system. You are government employees with about the same requirments as the DMV for application. That is the caliber of person you get with a cop.



You just don't want to be indicted because you know your buddies have been killing americans by the thousands for years and getting away with it. Too bad, the good times are over buddy. You might be out of a job and sued into poverty before you know it, if you are an LEO. We are about to clean house.


You can smell the fear on the cops in general. On this forum, on TV, in person.... they are petrified we will find out what they've been up to for the last 30 years.


Do you realize that there could be THOUSANDS more unreported murders? Being murdered by a cop is looking like a threat on par with at least choking. Maybe we need training for average citizens how to fight crooked cops? We train people how to save others from choking, maybe we need to save each other from the police?

 

[Darwin333]

This isn't an unfair criticism it would be good to have requirements and standards in place to be able to compare apples to apples. However there are going to be challenges since even crime stats today can vary widely from state to state because of how various crimes are categorized by the states making a comparison between jurisdictions in other states more difficult.

That is mostly due to game playing by DAs to make their crime stats look better than what they are.

The bottom line, which I think you agree with, is it should be ridiculously easy to record in a standardized fashion and report each time an officer fires his gun outside of training. The same thing with all other types of force used. It might get a little gray when you get down to the small shit like slamming someone on the hood but the rest is absurdly easy and I see no excuse at all as to why it hasn't been a long standing mandatory practice.

 

[touchstone]

Your lack of self awareness is very entertaining.

Back to neffing eh? Well, it was fun making you look ridiculous anyway. Come back any time.

 

[brycejones]

That is mostly due to game playing by DAs to make their crime stats look better than what they are.

The bottom line, which I think you agree with, is it should be ridiculously easy to record in a standardized fashion and report each time an officer fires his gun outside of training. The same thing with all other types of force used. It might get a little gray when you get down to the small shit like slamming someone on the hood but the rest is absurdly easy and I see no excuse at all as to why it hasn't been a long standing mandatory practice.

I think we're pretty much in agreement on this point.

 

[brycejones]

Back to neffing eh? Well, it was fun making you look ridiculous anyway. Come back any time.

Like I said earlier, I expect you to flame out in a few months and get yourself banned. I'll leave it to the judgement of others as to who looks ridiculous but you really should work on being more self aware.

 

[touchstone]

BTW people gathering in venice, cops shot another homeless guy. I live near there, if the riots come within a few miles of me I may join in.

 

[brycejones]

BTW people gathering in venice, cops shot another homeless guy. I live near there, if the riots come within a few miles of me I may join in.

See above about self awareness.

 

[touchstone]

Like I said earlier, I expect you to flame out in a few months and get yourself banned. I'll leave it to the judgement of others as to who looks ridiculous but you really should work on being more self aware.

Yeah you keep dusting the stink off your trail of neff posts and utter idiocy that I just dragged you through. You look like an idiot, you made not a single point and you still think you came out ok? Please continue then.



I have waited for too long for your answers to my questions. Would you like to neff again or actually say something to defend yourself. Your 'poor me, he is being mean, this is unfair so ban him' act is a crock. I follow all the rules on this forum and have since I joined.

 

[touchstone]

See above about self awareness.

neff neff neff neff neff


some of us aren't old pussies who like the feel of jackboots up their asses

 

[OverVolt]

People be crazy these days though. Drugs are bad Mmkay.

 

[brycejones]

Yeah you keep dusting the stink off your trail of neff posts and utter idiocy that I just dragged you through. You look like an idiot, you made not a single point and you still think you came out ok? Please continue then.



I have waited for too long for your answers to my questions. Would you like to neff again or actually say something to defend yourself. Your 'poor me, he is being mean, this is unfair so ban him' act is a crock. I follow all the rules on this forum and have since I joined.

This is really entertaining. I haven't called you mean or said ban him. Your posting style and tone follows a trend of those who start out like you do and over time escalate to the point where they have an epic meltdown over some topic and get banned. The angry blowhards come and go.

 

[brycejones]

neff neff neff neff neff


some of us aren't old pussies who like the feel of jackboots up their asses

You really think rioting is an acceptable response? Are you going to engage in some looting to show those jackboots who the boss really is? Destroy some private property?

I assume since you are already outraged about this latest case you know what happened and why?

 

[touchstone]

This is really entertaining. I haven't called you mean or said ban him. Your posting style and tone follows a trend of those who start out like you do and over time escalate to the point where they have an epic meltdown over some topic and get banned. The angry blowhards come and go.

I have not had a good day and don't feel like listening to somebody try to misrepresent the facts. I'm sorry if you feel like you look so stupid, that you have to claim that i 'will be banned', which clearly means you want me to be banned. You go into these infantile semantic arguments and get torn apart, but you keep going! Yeah, mature huh...


Well, I'm here to stay so you best pack your BS up and take it elsewhere. I'm not tolerating it tonight, and you've successfully pissed me off enough for me to make a point of it. That was your best accomplishment in this entire argument. Your retarded predictions don't have a good track record and frankly I think if you had any credibility on this topic you've certainly burned through it today. You've resorted to basically arguing that I have an attitude problem, and that somehow makes your sh*t arguments better? Ad hominem ad infinitum should be your forum name.

 

[sanufdutta]

What you expect from those mentally ill fellas! I would rather say protect yourself from them.

 

[touchstone]

Aww did I make another cop sad?




Try actually addressing the topic instead of attacking the poster. Oh wait, that would require you to have an actual point.

 

[brycejones]

I have not had a good day and don't feel like listening to somebody try to misrepresent the facts. I'm sorry if you feel like you look so stupid, that you have to claim that i 'will be banned', which clearly means you want me to be banned. You go into these infantile semantic arguments and get torn apart, but you keep going! Yeah, mature huh...


Well, I'm here to stay so you best pack your BS up and take it elsewhere. I'm not tolerating it tonight, and you've successfully pissed me off enough for me to make a point of it. That was your best accomplishment in this entire argument. Your retarded predictions don't have a good track record and frankly I think if you had any credibility on this topic you've certainly burned through it today. You've resorted to basically arguing that I have an attitude problem, and that somehow makes your sh*t arguments better?

Look its not my fault you started a stupid thread referencing a simple minded site that doesn't put any of its numbers into context. Its not my fault you seem some concepts appear to be difficult for you to understand like who actually indicts people. Its also not my fault that you straight up said you ready to join riot if it came close to you. Your stunning lack of awareness is also not my fault.

So if you're all hyped up on rage the only person you have to blame is you.