If a citizen with a CCW had been walking by and reacted exactly as the cops did, mistaking nozzle for gun...fear for his life..the whole nine yards, he would be rotting in jail right now.
One thing I am uberly impressed about with this story, the police chief actually admitted the 2 officers didn't identify themselves. Even if he only did it because they're 2 officers he dislikes, it's refreshing to see an honest chief. A good number would have covered for the officers in question and lied about how they followed procedures. Or said something to the effect of "we're currently looking into this incident and have no comment at this time" which is basically a lie to buy time.
If a citizen with a CCW had been walking by and reacted exactly as the cops did, mistaking nozzle for gun...fear for his life..the whole nine yards, he would be rotting in jail right now.
This guy wasn't watering his lawn. If the nozzle was on the end of a hose and spraying water on his garden I'd say string the cops up by the nuts. But he was sitting on his porch with a black hose nozzle shaped like a gun, and then pointing at people with both hands as you would a gun. No sympathy.
Its not that cut and dry. You're comparing apples to oranges, the police had two separate reports of a man holding a gun. Furthermore, all you need is to reasonably fear for your life to use lethal force in self defense. Even a CCW is this theoretical situation would have a long court battle and could possibly go free.
Irrelevant. Even if he was watering the garden there was no indication the cops would have acted differently, that was my point. They were careless and reckless. For all they know the guy could have been shooting cans with a bb gun, paintball gun, airsoft gun, water gun, etc etc etc. any number of items that can be pointed at objects/people
And I don't think its reasonable to fear based on any asshat that calls the police. Like I mentioned above there are dozens of other legal objects that could be pointed in a fashion similar to a gun. These cops were reckless.
if he was watering his lawn he wouldn't have been sitting at the top of a balcony with a pistol looking item pointing it at things and pretending to shoot them. a little different situation.
if he was shooting a bb gun or paintball gun the people who called it in would have said so. not, he's holding a gun and waving it around.
if anything it's reckless and careless to point anything resembling a gun at people.
I was referring to the "theoretical" CCW situation. But the officers fear is definitively reasonable, by every legal definition in that state.
I know people have been shot for less. Holding a sandwich, reaching for their cell phone....etc.....usually in those cases THEY at least knew there was a cop there.
Police get away with all kinds of BS, it wouldn't surprise me if they walk free..
Like I've said, its tragedy. Both parties are partially at fault. However, the officers actions were not criminal, they followed SOP. That's all I'm saying. Everyone here says they should have announced themselves, that's incorrect.
Well they should have done a more thorough investigation OR told him to put down the "weapon" . One of the other should have been done. There are simply way to many legal objects that can be misconstrued as weapons. Pointing things shouldn't be a capital offense.
If you change procedures more cops will die. It won't happen. Do tradegies occur with the current system? Yes. But changing them will be far more detrimental.
Let me know if you know what a bullet flying through the air sounds like going by your head. Let me know if someone close to you has been shot on the job. Let me know if you have been held at gunpoint, twice. How about having someone shot and killed in front of you?
I'm not trying to be condescending, and I'm sure some here have been through worse, but a few of you in this thread calling for the police to be arrested just have no idea what a situation like this does to someone. Hindsight is 20/20. These officers were trying to do the best job they could, and they made a really fucking easy mistake. A mistake that just about everyone could have, and probably would have made, while in the line of duty.
Police chief said outright cops never ID'ed themselves.
And yes, I think if the police said POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPONS AND RAISE YOUR HANDS the guy would've done so instead of fucking around like drunk people do.
If you change procedures more cops will die. It won't happen. Do tradegies occur with the current system? Yes. But changing them will be far more detrimental.
Can someone please tell me why the police officers were even close enough to be in any danger? They were told in advance that the suspect may have had a weapon.
How hard would it be to stand back out of range and identify yourself?
I don't know if you guys watch too many movies, but pistols don't exactly have a lot of range, especially a sixshooter being fired from a drunk.
Can someone please tell me why the police officers were even close enough to be in any danger? They were told in advance that the suspect may have had a weapon.
How hard would it be to stand back out of range and identify yourself?
I don't know if you guys watch too many movies, but pistols don't exactly have a lot of range, especially a sixshooter being fired from a drunk.
So which is preferable for society, more cops dying or more innocent people dying?
Range is the same, accuracy is not. Way to be completely ignorant.
Aso, it's part of their job requirement to identify themselves.
Irrelevant. Even if he was watering the garden there was no indication the cops would have acted differently, that was my point. They were careless and reckless. For all they know the guy could have been shooting cans with a bb gun, paintball gun, airsoft gun, water gun, etc etc etc. any number of items that can be pointed at objects/people