Cops pay 3 a.m. visit to tell man his door is unlocked

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: coldmeat

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: cultgag
Well I can also see where the police department is coming from...


3 AM
Garage door open
Door of the house open
TV on
Keys to truck i ignition
no answer to knocks


Although I'd be agitated, I'd also be thankful that it was the cops instead of a bulglar.

having a garage door open isn othing.
having a TV on is nothing
keys in the truck again while stupid is nothing.

no knocks? ITS 3 am!

the door opne? ok yeah wierd but not probable cause to enter a house.

open door in the middle of the night is not probable cause to enter a house? are you kidding?

since fucking when is it probable cause? i have my doors open all the time. so you are saying the cops can come in any time?

You leave your doors open at 3am?

i have a few times. also my garage is opena lot (also i live in the country where is not uncommon).

NONE of that gives the cops a right to enter the house

And you don't answer the door when someone rings the bell/knocks on the door?

It's people like you that whine about the cops coming to investigate in situations like this and if you were actually getting robbed, you'd whine that them not coming in.

Dude it was 3 am, anything quieter then a point blank gunshot will NOT wake me outta rem sleep at 3 am

you expect knocking to wake someone up?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Nanny 911?

Here's an idea:

It's my home, so let me decide if I want to lock the door or not.

Do you also leave your garage door open, your back door open, and your vehicle unlocked with the keys in the ignition?

In the summertime, when it was 80 out during the day, and it's cooler at night - I can guarantee my doors are open. I leave the keys in one of my vans 90% of the time, and my kids are constantly forgetting to close the garage doors. Yep, that about describes my house perfectly in the summertime.

As far as blaming the police in the situation in the OP - I don't know how significant crime is in that area. I don't know what the sub-culture of that area is like. There are plenty of areas of the country where I guarantee my doors would be locked. Not in this area though.

I'm curious about all the people who claim they leave their doors open at night. We're not talking about unlocked here, we're talking about ajar. Not a screen door closed to let air in on a cool summer night, but ajar. There are a lot of people here who leave their doors ajar at night frequently? I just can't imagine that. Most of these people also claim they live in rural areas - insects/spiders/animals coming in doesn't bother you?

anmals can't come in since i have a screen door. i guess if they really wanted to they would.

as for spiders/insects we got them any way. its just a fact of living out here.


finding a house with a open garage is not rare (or keys in the car). heck once we drove off and left my wife's keys in her car trunk (we were delivering girl scout cookies). a guy downt he street walked by and seen them in it. he took them up the house and put them on the key hook (wich was inside the house).

We have also had a neighbor call ask if we had milk/butter/whatever. then find out we are out and we just tell them to go get it.


Also nto getting up to answere the door at 3 am is not odd either.




Around here having a garage door open/tv on/door open would not alarm any cops.

That's my point. Your door is still shut, this guy's wasn't. I usually leave my main door open and keep a screen door close too at night (my screen door locks, too) so I'm no stranger to that.

how do you know he didnt have a screen door? it does not say either way.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Nanny 911?

Here's an idea:

It's my home, so let me decide if I want to lock the door or not.

Do you also leave your garage door open, your back door open, and your vehicle unlocked with the keys in the ignition?

In the summertime, when it was 80 out during the day, and it's cooler at night - I can guarantee my doors are open. I leave the keys in one of my vans 90% of the time, and my kids are constantly forgetting to close the garage doors. Yep, that about describes my house perfectly in the summertime.

As far as blaming the police in the situation in the OP - I don't know how significant crime is in that area. I don't know what the sub-culture of that area is like. There are plenty of areas of the country where I guarantee my doors would be locked. Not in this area though.

I'm curious about all the people who claim they leave their doors open at night. We're not talking about unlocked here, we're talking about ajar. Not a screen door closed to let air in on a cool summer night, but ajar. There are a lot of people here who leave their doors ajar at night frequently? I just can't imagine that. Most of these people also claim they live in rural areas - insects/spiders/animals coming in doesn't bother you?

anmals can't come in since i have a screen door. i guess if they really wanted to they would.

as for spiders/insects we got them any way. its just a fact of living out here.


finding a house with a open garage is not rare (or keys in the car). heck once we drove off and left my wife's keys in her car trunk (we were delivering girl scout cookies). a guy downt he street walked by and seen them in it. he took them up the house and put them on the key hook (wich was inside the house).

We have also had a neighbor call ask if we had milk/butter/whatever. then find out we are out and we just tell them to go get it.


Also nto getting up to answere the door at 3 am is not odd either.




Around here having a garage door open/tv on/door open would not alarm any cops.

That's my point. Your door is still shut, this guy's wasn't. I usually leave my main door open and keep a screen door close too at night (my screen door locks, too) so I'm no stranger to that.

how do you know he didnt have a screen door? it does not say either way.

WTF does it matter? What right did the police have to come on to his property absent witnessing a crime in progress or a call to the house by the residents or neighbors.

 

[RightIsWrong]

For all of the talk about the police having probable cause...I'd like to know what it is based on.

An open garage door would be the only thing that they could have gone on. If they are going to go to every single house with one and investigate?

The only thing that they had to go on was the open garage door. They couldn't not have been able to detect the keys in the truck from the street. They would not have been able to detect a tv on and no one watching from the street. They would likely not have noticed the door being "slightly ajar" from the street.

For a town that has reported exactly one murder or manslaughter in the last 6+ years, I would think that their probable cause was their boredom.

The police had zero right to enter this home. They would have been justified to knock for an hour until someone woke up....but not to enter.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I remember a little town in Northern Minnesota where I went to visit a friend (can't remember the towns name) that had ONE police officer. You'd see the police car parked in front of the diner there from time to time. He'd put a sign in his rear window that said "I'm on break so, don't do anything you shouldn't!"

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
You have to love the anti-police types in this thread. :disgust: You'll find any excuse to hate on the police/authorities.

This guy was putting himself in a seriously dangerous position where he was completely open to robbery of his house or his car. He was leaving himself (and more importantly the kids downstairs) open to murder or kidnapping. Whether or not this is because he's a complete idiot or just forgot (I can't see how he forgot to remove his keys from the car, shut the garage, and lock the door though) it is completely justified for cops to check on him and see what is going on. If not for him, for the kids downstairs.

The cops did the right thing here, and that's what I would expect them to do if I were ever in this man's situation and that's what I would want them to do. Cops are supposed to not just investigate crime but prevent crime, and that is what they did here. If you can't see that, then you are just a cop-hater (of which there are far too many on these forums). You don't have to blindly trust the authorities, but they are on your side (besides a few bad apples).

:roll:

Did you know that anytime you leave your home, you could be killed? Run down, stabbed, shot. Just by leaving your home. In fact, your being online could result in hackers getting to your PC and using it to store their kiddie porn and stolen credit card numbers.

I recommend you unplug your computer and never leave your house again. Do the world a favor.

Screw the pigs thinking they have right to trespass just because they're cops. My property is private. Stay the hell off.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Nanny 911?

Here's an idea:

It's my home, so let me decide if I want to lock the door or not.

Do you also leave your garage door open, your back door open, and your vehicle unlocked with the keys in the ignition?

In the summertime, when it was 80 out during the day, and it's cooler at night - I can guarantee my doors are open. I leave the keys in one of my vans 90% of the time, and my kids are constantly forgetting to close the garage doors. Yep, that about describes my house perfectly in the summertime.

As far as blaming the police in the situation in the OP - I don't know how significant crime is in that area. I don't know what the sub-culture of that area is like. There are plenty of areas of the country where I guarantee my doors would be locked. Not in this area though.

I'm curious about all the people who claim they leave their doors open at night. We're not talking about unlocked here, we're talking about ajar. Not a screen door closed to let air in on a cool summer night, but ajar. There are a lot of people here who leave their doors ajar at night frequently? I just can't imagine that. Most of these people also claim they live in rural areas - insects/spiders/animals coming in doesn't bother you?

anmals can't come in since i have a screen door. i guess if they really wanted to they would.

as for spiders/insects we got them any way. its just a fact of living out here.


finding a house with a open garage is not rare (or keys in the car). heck once we drove off and left my wife's keys in her car trunk (we were delivering girl scout cookies). a guy downt he street walked by and seen them in it. he took them up the house and put them on the key hook (wich was inside the house).

We have also had a neighbor call ask if we had milk/butter/whatever. then find out we are out and we just tell them to go get it.


Also nto getting up to answere the door at 3 am is not odd either.




Around here having a garage door open/tv on/door open would not alarm any cops.

That's my point. Your door is still shut, this guy's wasn't. I usually leave my main door open and keep a screen door close too at night (my screen door locks, too) so I'm no stranger to that.

how do you know he didnt have a screen door? it does not say either way.

Well because he said he left his door open, I was assuming they actually meant he left his door open. If there was a screen door that was closed, then the doorway would not have been open. If the writer simply doesn't understand what an open door is, then I don't know what to say. I'm erring on the side of normality.

Again, I'm not saying I completely agree with the police on this one, but the circumstances were, eh, a bit shady.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: TheVrolokWell because he said he left his door open, I was assuming they actually meant he left his door open. If there was a screen door that was closed, then the doorway would not have been open. If the writer simply doesn't understand what an open door is, then I don't know what to say. I'm erring on the side of normality.

Again, I'm not saying I completely agree with the police on this one, but the circumstances were, eh, a bit shady.

why couldnt the screen door be closed but the door open? perhaps they don't count the screen? its not like they are good for anything other then keeping out bugs.

 

[Ness]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi

Originally posted by: Regs
How does this petty crap make it to CNN? We got more serious crap going on in our town than cops trying to keep things safe.

This is just one man pissed off because something woke his lazy ass up.

Private property is private. If there was no reported emergency, the police were as guilty of "breaking and entering" as a burglar would be. This would fall under illegal search and seisure if they had found anything illegal while they were there.

If you think they were right for entering this house, I'm assuming you agree with the patriot act as well.

Your argument doesn't hold water because of legal definitions and what actually occurred here. They aren't guilty of breaking and entering (aka burglary)... because they had no intention of stealing anything or doing any harm. Being charged with breaking and entering requires intent.

Illegal search and seizure would imply that they were searching the property for contraband or evidence of illegal activity or that they seized some sort of evidence. It's not legal for a property to be randomly searched, but they weren't searching for anything... they legitimately thought that there may be a problem inside based on what they saw outside and went to find the owner.

At best, the police are guilty of trespassing. I mean, they went on to a property they didn't expressly get permission to be on or in and through this formed a completely reasonable belief that something may be wrong and that they should investigate.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: waggy
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/...wakening.ap/index.html


AKEVILLE, Minnesota (AP) -- A Lakeville man says he feels violated after two police officers woke him up at 3 a.m. to tell him his door was unlocked.

Their surprise visit was part of a public service campaign to remind residents to secure their homes to prevent thefts. Usually, officers just leave notices on doors.

But they went further in Troy Molde's case on Thursday. Police entered the house where four children under 7 were having a sleepover, and then went upstairs to Molde's bedroom.

The officers told Molde his garage door was open, the TV was on, the keys to his truck were left in the ignition and the door to his house was ajar.

A police spokesman says the intrusion was justified because the officers' initial door knocks went unanswered, and they wanted to make sure nothing was wrong.

He says the kids inside -- Molde's two sons and two nephews -- were afraid to wake their dad, so the officers went upstairs



WTF! i would be pissed off myself. they have NO reason to enter the house at all. they are lucky they didnt get shot. but then i soppose it would be his fault and get charged with shooting them.

but man this is insane. i would be pissed off at them entering my house without permission also.

No one answered and the door was ajar... I am pretty sure that is enough for probably cause. Not saying I am okay with it... just stating reality.

ya, think of the cop bashing had they ignored it, and it turned out there was an invasion, holding the guy and 7 kids hostage. if i dont wake up when someone is knocking at the door and 7 young children are awake and scared witless, id say cops waking me up wouldnt be the first thing id be pissed at. pissed at myself for leaving 7 kids in an unsecured house alone, definitely. pissed that the cops were making sure things were all good, probably not.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi

Originally posted by: Regs
How does this petty crap make it to CNN? We got more serious crap going on in our town than cops trying to keep things safe.

This is just one man pissed off because something woke his lazy ass up.

Private property is private. If there was no reported emergency, the police were as guilty of "breaking and entering" as a burglar would be. This would fall under illegal search and seisure if they had found anything illegal while they were there.

If you think they were right for entering this house, I'm assuming you agree with the patriot act as well.

(per NH), the definition of criminal trespass requires that one enters or remains in any place without license or privilege. Based upon the totality of the circumstances in this situation, I would say that they had license to enter to ensure the safety of the residents. I'm sure this depends on the specifics of the area they're in, but if the police have cause to do door checks on residences, maybe they're doing it for a reason.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I fail to see the problem here. In this case, it seems the police acted responsibly, taking the necessary precautions to investigate a scene that was out of the ordinary. Fortunately, it ended up being nothing. If it had been a robbery or worse, the police would have been derelict in their duty to not investigate. I'm thankful for situations like this. It says to me that the police are taking the motto "protect and serve" to heart, and acting as concerned neighbors would to ensure that everything is OK. That's what I want from my police.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: coldmeat

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: cultgag
Well I can also see where the police department is coming from...


3 AM
Garage door open
Door of the house open
TV on
Keys to truck i ignition
no answer to knocks


Although I'd be agitated, I'd also be thankful that it was the cops instead of a bulglar.

having a garage door open isn othing.
having a TV on is nothing
keys in the truck again while stupid is nothing.

no knocks? ITS 3 am!

the door opne? ok yeah wierd but not probable cause to enter a house.

open door in the middle of the night is not probable cause to enter a house? are you kidding?

since fucking when is it probable cause? i have my doors open all the time. so you are saying the cops can come in any time?

You leave your doors open at 3am?

i used to do this all the time. before we had kids and lived in tempe by the college. there were many times cops would come knock on the door to see if things were all good, but usually we were sitting in the driveway on the side where they couldnt see or inside throwing darts. they never had to enter tho, and we never felt violated by them coming to the door. we didnt ave AC (ya, weird in arizona) so we would leave the doors open to at least catch a breeze.

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: waggy
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/...wakening.ap/index.html


AKEVILLE, Minnesota (AP) -- A Lakeville man says he feels violated after two police officers woke him up at 3 a.m. to tell him his door was unlocked.

Their surprise visit was part of a public service campaign to remind residents to secure their homes to prevent thefts. Usually, officers just leave notices on doors.

But they went further in Troy Molde's case on Thursday. Police entered the house where four children under 7 were having a sleepover, and then went upstairs to Molde's bedroom.

The officers told Molde his garage door was open, the TV was on, the keys to his truck were left in the ignition and the door to his house was ajar.

A police spokesman says the intrusion was justified because the officers' initial door knocks went unanswered, and they wanted to make sure nothing was wrong.

He says the kids inside -- Molde's two sons and two nephews -- were afraid to wake their dad, so the officers went upstairs



WTF! i would be pissed off myself. they have NO reason to enter the house at all. they are lucky they didnt get shot. but then i soppose it would be his fault and get charged with shooting them.

but man this is insane. i would be pissed off at them entering my house without permission also.

No one answered and the door was ajar... I am pretty sure that is enough for probably cause. Not saying I am okay with it... just stating reality.

Never said they knocked. I swear if that would have been me, my SIG P250 9MM would have pumped 16 rounds through it...

I live in Dallas (mind you a nice neighborhood) but people have been killed for less.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: StarsFan4Life

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: waggy
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/...wakening.ap/index.html


AKEVILLE, Minnesota (AP) -- A Lakeville man says he feels violated after two police officers woke him up at 3 a.m. to tell him his door was unlocked.

Their surprise visit was part of a public service campaign to remind residents to secure their homes to prevent thefts. Usually, officers just leave notices on doors.

But they went further in Troy Molde's case on Thursday. Police entered the house where four children under 7 were having a sleepover, and then went upstairs to Molde's bedroom.

The officers told Molde his garage door was open, the TV was on, the keys to his truck were left in the ignition and the door to his house was ajar.

A police spokesman says the intrusion was justified because the officers' initial door knocks went unanswered, and they wanted to make sure nothing was wrong.

He says the kids inside -- Molde's two sons and two nephews -- were afraid to wake their dad, so the officers went upstairs



WTF! i would be pissed off myself. they have NO reason to enter the house at all. they are lucky they didnt get shot. but then i soppose it would be his fault and get charged with shooting them.

but man this is insane. i would be pissed off at them entering my house without permission also.

No one answered and the door was ajar... I am pretty sure that is enough for probably cause. Not saying I am okay with it... just stating reality.

Never said they knocked. I swear if that would have been me, my SIG P250 9MM would have pumped 16 rounds through it...

I live in Dallas (mind you a nice neighborhood) but people have been killed for less.

I hope you pay more attention to who you shoot than you did to this article.

 

[antyler]

the guy should just take it as a rude wake up call. pun intended. And realize that he is blessed it was the cops and not some jerk offs.

 

[Vonkhan]

I rarely side with cops ... but in this case, they were right

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: antyler
cops and not some jerk offs.

What's the difference?

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: antyler
cops and not some jerk offs.

What's the difference?

:thumbsup:

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: antyler
cops and not some jerk offs.

What's the difference?

Nobody was hurt and nothing was stolen- you can take that for starters.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: antyler
cops and not some jerk offs.

What's the difference?

Nobody was hurt and nothing was stolen- you can take that for starters.

Only if you cherish your liberty lightly. The police had no business being on his property let alone walking into his house uninvited. Yes the homeowner may have been putting himself at increased risk of being the victim of a crime, that is a risk he is allowed to take as a free man on his own property not breaking any laws. Some would take the view that what was taken from him was far more valuable than mere things.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: TheVrolokWell because he said he left his door open, I was assuming they actually meant he left his door open. If there was a screen door that was closed, then the doorway would not have been open. If the writer simply doesn't understand what an open door is, then I don't know what to say. I'm erring on the side of normality.

Again, I'm not saying I completely agree with the police on this one, but the circumstances were, eh, a bit shady.

why couldnt the screen door be closed but the door open? perhaps they don't count the screen? its not like they are good for anything other then keeping out bugs.

Because a screen door being closed implies the door is closed, and not open. A closed screen door is less suspicious than a door left ajar in the middle of the night. Normally, doors are not ajar in the middle of the night (thus leaving a doorway open).

 

[Finalnight]

So happy I moved from that state. They have the most bi-polar poplace i have seen regarding crime besides california.

They leave themselves vulnerable but when the police try to make them act less stupid they scream civil liberties.

They complain about crime but when gun ownership is strengthened they scream "Oh, my babies!"

They complain about crime but when patrols are increased they scream police brutality AND civil liberties.

Good lord.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: antyler
cops and not some jerk offs.

What's the difference?

Nobody was hurt and nothing was stolen- you can take that for starters.

Only if you cherish your liberty lightly. The police had no business being on his property let alone walking into his house uninvited. Yes the homeowner may have been putting himself at increased risk of being the victim of a crime, that is a risk he is allowed to take as a free man on his own property not breaking any laws. Some would take the view that what was taken from him was far more valuable than mere things.

GB2 P&N. This was completely justified. No liberties were infringed here. The door was open, the cops were on a neighborhood watch. Its reasonable suspicion that something might be wrong.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: antyler
cops and not some jerk offs.

What's the difference?

Nobody was hurt and nothing was stolen- you can take that for starters.

Only if you cherish your liberty lightly. The police had no business being on his property let alone walking into his house uninvited. Yes the homeowner may have been putting himself at increased risk of being the victim of a crime, that is a risk he is allowed to take as a free man on his own property not breaking any laws. Some would take the view that what was taken from him was far more valuable than mere things.

Doesn't work that way.

Link

That lowered the precedent set for probable cause. Substantial chance or fair probability was sufficient.

Also they executed Knock and Announce. This allows them to enter onto private residence and announce their presence if "circumstances present a threat of physical violence".

Door open, Garage Open, Keys in Ignition, TV on, no answers to repeated attempts to get attention by knocking, ringing doorbell, and announcing presents is enough probable cause.

I don't know how you think that since you own the property you can do whatever you want on it. Because I own the property does that give me the right to grow Marijuana, can I discharge a firearm, can I hold parties for underage kids? No!

When they say "No one is above the law" that doesn't also say "Unless they are on their own property". That was borderline child neglect too-- very irresponsible on the fathers part.

-Kevin