Core exercises

[Marinski]

Does anybody know any exercises for building up your core muscles such as lower back and stomach?



Locked due to pissing contest with the usual suspects. If this continues there will be sanctions , the severity and length will depend on the offenders previous record

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Red Dawn

 

[Whisper]

Stomach: Sit-ups (weighted, hanging, seated, inclined...take your pick) and leg lifts are the two big ones I can think of; if you have one of those ab-roller wheel things, you could also use that--supposed to work pretty well.

Lower back: Hyperextensions, straight-leg dead lifts, and good mornings are the three that come to mind.

 

[brikis98]

What are your goals? That is, why are you interested in strengthening your "core"? Is it because it is something trendy you hear about on TV? Because you want a six pack? Or is it actually holding you back in some activity?

For the record, the purpose of your "core" is to stabilize your body. Therefore, the best exercises to strengthen the core are those that force it to stabilize heavy loads: back squats, front squats, overhead squats, conventional deadlifts, straight leg deadlifts, overhead press, push press, push jerk, bench press, cleans, snatches, and so on. Read "Core" stability "training" for more info.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Squats. Deadlifts. Anything overhead. These will get your core far much stronger than any situp or crunch. I second everything brikis stated as well.

 

[katank]

In addition to weightlifting, a lot of gymnastic movements will also tax your core significantly. L-sits/V-sits, knees-to-elbows/toes-to-bars etc. are all great core exercises. Levers if you are particularly badass.

 

[xCxStylex]

For lower back, here is what I was told when I hurt it slightly.

Lie on your stomach and stretch your legs and arms straight up, almost like hyper extending your back.

Alternatively, lie on your stomach, and raise your head and upper body, using the back muscles.

Does anybody know any exercises for building up your core muscles such as lower back and stomach?

 

[Jack Ryan]

Rippetoe link in 2 replies, nice. New record?

There are other goals in fitness than to be a power lifter and squat 3 times a week. An athlete who plays any of the major sports is going to benefit from core exercises that put your core in a position that isn't perfect squat form or even use those muscle to do more than stability (tennis/golf/etc)

A simple post asking for core exercises doesn't warrant the condescending response.

@Marinski

In addition to the ones already said...

• Barbell anti-rotation is good - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4nCzUNXwP4
• Any of the static bridges or planks
• Woodchoppers
• Russian Twist
• Stability ball has a lot of options

 

[alkemyst]

rippetoe link in 2 replies, nice. New record?

There are other goals in fitness than to be a power lifter and squat 3 times a week. An athlete who plays any of the major sports is going to benefit from core exercises that put your core in a position that isn't perfect squat form or even use those muscle to do more than stability (tennis/golf/etc)

a simple post asking for core exercises doesn't warrant the condescending response.

@marinski

in addition to the ones already said...

• barbell anti-rotation is good - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4nczunxwp4
• any of the static bridges or planks
• woodchoppers
• russian twist
• stability ball has a lot of options

qft...

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

I saw a video last night that had exercises for the core to be better in bed. Is that a goal?

 

[Deeko]

Rippetoe link in 2 replies, nice. New record?

haha yea right. If its not in the OP its usually the first reply. Don't insult the diety of ATHF, lest his wrath be rained upon thee.

 

[alkemyst]

don't forget his red-headed stepbrother X-fit.

 

[Whisper]

• Barbell anti-rotation is good - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4nCzUNXwP4

I've done this exercise a few times myself, as well as a variant where I keep my arms/shoulders locked in place and rotate my upper body side-to-side. Both are killer. As an aside, I've seen quite a few UFC athletes doing the same motion, so it must work well for them.

 

[brikis98]

Sigh. Apparently, posting articles written by respected strength training coaches is taboo around here. I guess we should all listen to the geniuses on this forum instead of, you know, experts. But, in the slim chance that you can take the time to read and - gasp - even learn something today, here is some more food for thought about "core stability" training:

The Myth of Core Stability: a long, well referenced paper that talks about the total lack of scientific evidence regarding "core" training. Primarily focuses on the fact that training the abdominals has no effect on back pain, which is why my first set of questions to the OP was WHY he wanted to train his core.

Fitness Myth Busted: Core Stability and the Bosu: references a study that shows that with equal loads, there is no significant difference in core muscle activation between the BOSU and a solid platform for a number of exercises. And since people typically use VERY light loads on the BOSU, there will be very little activation of the trunk muscles. The BOSU might improve your balance - which is not without merit - but it is NOT an effective tool for core stability or strength.

Core Stability or Pure Stupidity?: references statements from numerous papers that talk about very flawed basis of "core" training: that real world actions don't isolate particular muscle groups, that abdominal activity does not play a strong role in spinal stability and that "the world of core stabilisation currently remains far too heavily based in marketing and belief than in valid science."


The point of the Rippetoe article I linked originally was not that squats/deadlifts/etc are the only way to train the core, but rather that most of the other "core exercises" people are doing these days are definitely NOT the way to train the core. Working on a BOSU or stability ball just don't allow for the kind of progressive loading that is necessary to produce strength gains. Barbell training is one medium that does allow this, but not the only one. For example, gymnastics is another great way to strengthen the core because you can progressively increase the difficulty. Finally, as explained in all the articles above, training the core in isolation makes no sense. It isn't effective, it doesn't help with injury prevention and it won't help athletic performance. All of those goals can only be effectively achieved with a routine that trains the entire body.

 

[Deeko]

I don't think anyone (at least not me) is attacking the information in the Rippetoe links. I own both Starting Strength and Practical Programming and have read a number of his online works as well. Along with many books on strength from many other authors. Nothings wrong with his content per se - more the fact that a lot of times we could replace ATHF with a hyperlink straight to Rippetoe's forum

 

[Whisper]

Sigh. Apparently, posting articles written by respected strength training coaches is taboo around here. I guess we should all listen to the geniuses on this forum instead of, you know, experts. But, in the slim chance that you can take the time to read and - gasp - even learn something today, here is some more food for thought about "core stability" training:

The Myth of Core Stability: a long, well referenced paper that talks about the total lack of scientific evidence regarding "core" training. Primarily focuses on the fact that training the abdominals has no effect on back pain, which is why my first set of questions to the OP was WHY he wanted to train his core.

Fitness Myth Busted: Core Stability and the Bosu: references a study that shows that with equal loads, there is no significant difference in core muscle activation between the BOSU and a solid platform for a number of exercises. And since people typically use VERY light loads on the BOSU, there will be very little activation of the trunk muscles. The BOSU might improve your balance - which is not without merit - but it is NOT an effective tool for core stability or strength.

Core Stability or Pure Stupidity?: references statements from numerous papers that talk about very flawed basis of "core" training: that real world actions don't isolate particular muscle groups, that abdominal activity does not play a strong role in spinal stability and that "the world of core stabilisation currently remains far too heavily based in marketing and belief than in valid science."


The point of the Rippetoe article I linked originally was not that squats/deadlifts/etc are the only way to train the core, but rather that most of the other "core exercises" people are doing these days are definitely NOT the way to train the core. Working on a BOSU or stability ball just don't allow for the kind of progressive loading that is necessary to produce strength gains. Barbell training is one medium that does allow this, but not the only one. For example, gymnastics is another great way to strengthen the core because you can progressively increase the difficulty. Finally, as explained in all the articles above, training the core in isolation makes no sense. It isn't effective, it doesn't help with injury prevention and it won't help athletic performance. All of those goals can only be effectively achieved with a routine that trains the entire body.

Personally (and trust me, I completely realize the empirical shakiness of anecdotal evidence), I notice an aesthetic difference when I do regularly include my ab routine vs. when I don't. I should also note that I also regularly complete non-ab-specific exercises that nonetheless do strengthen the abdominals (e.g., squats, deadlifts/SLDLs, standing overhead press).

The take home message from that to myself would obviously be, "well duh, if you work your abs above and beyond the whole-body exercises, you're likely going to notice at least some improvement." Do I believe that doing five to ten minutes of crunches, leg lifts, side bends, etc. a few times a week will meaningfully increase "core strength?" Eh, probably not by much. But like I said, my abs are much more defined when I do include the routine (if, for no other reason, because it burns additional calories) than when I don't.

In the end, I enjoy it and it works, so I do it. I do agree that it's important to explore the OP's goals for wanting to strengthen his core muscles, though. There very well will likely be better ways to do it, at least when starting out, than throwing 500 sit-ups into his daily routine.

 

[Deeko]

The take home message from that to myself would obviously be, "well duh, if you work your abs above and beyond the whole-body exercises, you're likely going to notice at least some improvement." Do I believe that doing five to ten minutes of crunches, leg lifts, side bends, etc. a few times a week will meaningfully increase "core strength?" Eh, probably not by much. But like I said, my abs are much more defined when I do include the routine (if, for no other reason, because it burns additional calories) than when I don't.

You're basically doing an assistance exercise for a muscle group, which is true. You pretty much hit the nail on the head - squats are better than crunches for building these muscles, but (outside of a true beginner who doesn't need additional work) adding ab exercises to a strength routine will provide additional benefits.

Just read any of Arnold's books - you won't find a lacking of ab-specific exercises there.

 

[alkemyst]

I don't think anyone (at least not me) is attacking the information in the Rippetoe links. I own both Starting Strength and Practical Programming and have read a number of his online works as well. Along with many books on strength from many other authors. Nothings wrong with his content per se - more the fact that a lot of times we could replace ATHF with a hyperlink straight to Rippetoe's forum

QFT...and it's usually linked by those whose only experience is minimal and in only it.

 

[Jack Ryan]

A link war is useless. There will be sites claiming their side is right.

I'll bet you a whole lot of money that athletes that actually play or fight in a sport train their core and it isn't so they can squat more. I flat out disagree that there is no athletic performance benefit.

The bottom line is that almost every post of yours that I come across has some penis sucking for Rippetoe or squats. I'm sorry to tell you that squats don't solve the world's problems. We already know they are a very important and effective exercise of any workout but that doesn't mean that isolation exercises aren't useful and they certainly aren't the answer to the question of "Does anybody know any exercises for building up your core muscles such as lower back and stomach?".

I welcome all opinions, but to be condescending to him is just wrong.

 

[Pantlegz]

QFT...and it's usually linked by those whose only experience is minimal and in only it.

I've actually had better gains with SL than anything I've done in the past. I lifted for 3 years in high school, doing a BB split 2 of those years. And another 3 or so of lifting since high school. I got bigger of course but didn't see near the gains I have with SL. Which isn't exactly SS but it's pretty similar.

I agree it's not for everyone, and I'm probably going to be moving away from it and get onto something like CF, just because the range of exercises and to help with football, and quite possibly MMA. But Over all it's a great program and concept, it works and not just for people that want to be power lifters...

A link war is useless. There will be sites claiming their side is right.

I'll bet you a whole lot of money that athletes that actually play or fight in a sport train their core and it isn't so they can squat more. I flat out disagree that there is no athletic performance benefit.

The bottom line is that almost every post of yours that I come across has some penis sucking for Rippetoe or squats. I'm sorry to tell you that squats don't solve the world's problems. We already know they are a very important and effective exercise of any workout but that doesn't mean that isolation exercises aren't useful and they certainly aren't the answer to the question of "Does anybody know any exercises for building up your core muscles such as lower back and stomach?".

I welcome all opinions, but to be condescending to him is just wrong.

I can't tell which side you're on, 1/2 the post seems to be an attack on brikis and the other 1/2 seems to say that isolation exercises aren't good for building core muscles(Which is correct btw). And if you read the post he lists several exercises other than just squats... the link, to me, was a reference as to why those exercises would be good core building the core muscles. Which could have been a link to almost anywhere as all those exercises do work the core muscles...

 

[brikis98]

I don't think anyone (at least not me) is attacking the information in the Rippetoe links. I own both Starting Strength and Practical Programming and have read a number of his online works as well. Along with many books on strength from many other authors. Nothings wrong with his content per se - more the fact that a lot of times we could replace ATHF with a hyperlink straight to Rippetoe's forum

So if you agree that the info in a Rippetoe's book/forum is a good answer for a given question, is it really necessary to come into thread after thread and laugh about it? When people come in here for diet advice, we point them to the fat loss sticky. When someone asks about running a 5k, we point them to the couch to 5k program. When they ask about push-ups, we point them to the hundredpushups plan. No one makes a peep about any of those, even though we repeat them often. But if you dare to breath Rippetoe's name (or mention Crossfit), you immediately get a bunch of hyenas in the thread.

Now, since I know you all love to deny it, I'm going to have to call you guys out on it. Do a search for "Rippetoe" and specify some of the usernames we see heckling in this thread: Jack Ryan, Deeko, Alkemyst. Here are some of the wonderful posts you come up with immediately:

Jack Ryan:
Do running shoes really matter?
How long to stay on basic SS routine?

Deeko:
Weight training again
YAWT - To crunch or not to crunch?

Alkemyst:
Aerobic vs Anaerobic?
40 day fast/liquid diet: Is it safe?

 

[Deeko]

So if you agree that the info in a Rippetoe's book/forum is a good answer for a given question, is it really necessary to come into thread after thread and laugh about it? When people come in here for diet advice, we point them to the fat loss sticky. When someone asks about running a 5k, we point them to the couch to 5k program. When they ask about push-ups, we point them to the hundredpushups plan. No one makes a peep about any of those, even though we repeat them often. But if you dare to breath Rippetoe's name (or mention Crossfit), you immediately get a bunch of hyenas in the thread.

Now, since I know you all love to deny it, I'm going to have to call you guys out on it. Do a search for "Rippetoe" and specify some of the usernames we see heckling in this thread: Jack Ryan, Deeko, Alkemyst. Here are some of the wonderful posts you come up with immediately:

Jack Ryan:
Do running shoes really matter?
How long to stay on basic SS routine?

Deeko:
Weight training again
YAWT - To crunch or not to crunch?

Alkemyst:
Aerobic vs Anaerobic?
40 day fast/liquid diet: Is it safe?

A bit defensive today, are we?

A) Both posts from me are from September 2008. You're really reaching on that one, eh?

B) As I said in my post above, its not worth it to insinuate his words are anything other than Gospel, lest his wrath rain upon thee (which you are trying to do in his name with this post). I maintain the same stance now as I did in 2008, which, ironically enough, is shown in those two posts you linked of mine. I just don't bring it up as often, because it seems to send you into a fit.

C) I'm not even sure what you're getting at by coming out swinging at me. That I've maintained a consistent stance for two years? Would you like me to counter with the sheer number of times his works are referenced by yourself? Its a whole lot more often. I'm really not even sure what your point is here.

D) You reference the fat loss sticky...well, yea, I think that gets over-referenced sometimes too. Much like Rippetoe, its not that there's anything wrong with it, but if I can give someone a succient answer and actually have a discussion on their question, rather than just throwing them at a lengthy thread, I will. This is a discussion forum, not Google.

 

[alkemyst]

(edit: not to you Deeko, you posted in between my reply) so how long have you been lifting?

like the other guys said, no one is debating rippetoe...what they are debating is the same group of 'kids' that only know it and have just basically started it professing it for every need.

I have said in the past and stand by it. Many casual lifters aren't looking to do deadlifts and power cleans ever, most probably won't go heavy on squats ever.

I tend to look at what they have to work with and recommend from there. Most just link to the fat loss thread or some SS dogma.

However, in my links was I wrong. I take it you are defending those cross-fitters that claim they can turn top marathon times without every doing long distance running prior.

I have yet to see that proven....almost any marathon times they have posted and fellow cross-fitters applaud have been ho-hum at best. It's a great job to finish a marathon, but for someone actively training not a huge goal to complete.

Finishing with a good time impressive.

 

[brikis98]

A link war is useless. There will be sites claiming their side is right.

Yea, you're right. There is no need to consider evidence, no need to take into account studies, or the opinions of experts. We should just listen to the anonymous authority of some random dude on a messageboard.

I'll bet you a whole lot of money that athletes that actually play or fight in a sport train their core and it isn't so they can squat more. I flat out disagree that there is no athletic performance benefit.

Yes, professional athletes do train their cores. Many of them squat, deadlift, press, clean, snatch, do gymnastics movements, and so on. And of course, their sports often train their cores too: grappling, tackling, and sprinting all make heavy use of the trunk muscles. And yes, there is a huge athletic benefit to it when developed this way.

But there isn't a huge athletic benefit (besides balance) from using BOSU balls or similar implements that are now associated with "core training". And this mainstream "as seen on TV" crap is what I'm arguing against.

I'm sorry to tell you that squats don't solve the world's problems. We already know they are a very important and effective exercise of any workout but that doesn't mean that isolation exercises aren't useful and they certainly aren't the answer to the question of "Does anybody know any exercises for building up your core muscles such as lower back and stomach?".

I'm not sure which is worse: your reading comprehension or your ability to argue a point. I'll just respond with simple bullet points so that you can follow along:

* I never made the argument that squats are the solution for everything
* I never made the argument that isolation exercises are always useless
* Having said that, squats do build up the core muscles (lower back and stomach), so they are a valid response to the question.

I welcome all opinions, but to be condescending to him is just wrong.

In what way was I condescending? By asking the OP what his goals were?

 

[brikis98]

A) Both posts from me are from September 2008. You're really reaching on that one, eh?

B) As I said in my post above, its not worth it to insinuate his words are anything other than Gospel, lest his wrath rain upon thee (which you are trying to do in his name with this post). I maintain the same stance now as I did in 2008, which, ironically enough, is shown in those two posts you linked of mine. I just don't bring it up as often, because it seems to send you into a fit.

C) I'm not even sure what you're getting at by coming out swinging at me. That I've maintained a consistent stance for two years? Would you like me to counter with the sheer number of times his works are referenced by yourself? Its a whole lot more often. I'm really not even sure what your point is here.

D) You reference the fat loss sticky...well, yea, I think that gets over-referenced sometimes too. Much like Rippetoe, its not that there's anything wrong with it, but if I can give someone a succient answer and actually have a discussion on their question, rather than just throwing them at a lengthy thread, I will. This is a discussion forum, not Google.

My point is simple: you and several others have been making posts that are equivalent to trolling/spamming whenever certain topics (in particular, Rippetoe) come up. These posts typically do not contribute anything to the discussion and instead just serve to ridicule someone for having the audacity to mention Rippetoe/Crossfit/whatever. I think it is creating an unpleasant environment on this messageboard and discouraging people from being helpful. If you don't agree with the advice, instead of insulting the poster, take the time to argue against it or propose alternatives. Writing crap like "you suck Rippetoe's penis" is NOT helpful or productive.

 

[mchammer187]

A link war is useless. There will be sites claiming their side is right.

I'll bet you a whole lot of money that athletes that actually play or fight in a sport train their core and it isn't so they can squat more. I flat out disagree that there is no athletic performance benefit.

The bottom line is that almost every post of yours that I come across has some penis sucking for Rippetoe or squats. I'm sorry to tell you that squats don't solve the world's problems. We already know they are a very important and effective exercise of any workout but that doesn't mean that isolation exercises aren't useful and they certainly aren't the answer to the question of "Does anybody know any exercises for building up your core muscles such as lower back and stomach?".

I welcome all opinions, but to be condescending to him is just wrong.

Squats may not be the answer to everything but did you look at the original question?

How can you train your core, lower back and stomach?

Squat and deadlifts are probably the single best way to answer that and they are definitely gonna be superior to bunch of accessory/isolation exercises if you have to pick one or the other.

anyway to the OP beyond squats and deadlifts you can go here:

http://www.beastskills.com/tutorials.htm and go through some of that stuff.