Core i5 in September @ near price parity with i7?

[Jabbernyx]

... and the consumers bite the dust :brokenheart:

 

[ilkhan]

Originally posted by: Zensal
That's not the question.

Why should I have to buy 975 if I want a nice mobo?

Nor will the 920 be going away until you wouldn't want to be buying one anymore anyway (as there'll be gulftowns out when the 920 goes away).

The i7 920 and the lynnfield 2.8Ghz model will live alongside each other, as will the 950 and the 2.93Ghz lynnfield.

 

[Zensal]

I'm just saying unlike 775 where things were made to be upgradeable, the i7 platform with it's multiple PCI-E 2.0 16x lanes are being priced way out of many of our budgets.

Right now, if I wanted to run a second 4850, seeing as they are so reasonably priced now a days, I could pop another one in my UD3P or grab an X48 mobo and use that with all my current parts for ~$90 or $270 respectively. If I buy a Lynnfield processor and wanted to do my second option and upgrade to more PCI-E lanes, it will be $700. And that's if X58 motherboard manufacturers keep making "low-end" boards.

 

[ilkhan]

$700? How do you figure that?
And you know that P45 only gives x8/x8 too, right?

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: ilkhan
$700? How do you figure that?
And you know that P45 only gives x8/x8 too, right?

exactly.. you do not HAVE to go from P55 to X58 to make them full speed.
Besides which, you COULD sell your 4850 online and buy a 4850x2 single slot card that performs almost identically.
You are creating a false dilemma here.

I am actually THANKFUL that they are not forcing me to pay for a second full speed pcie slot, I have never used two separate cards and I probably never will. So stop making me pay for them.

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: Shaq
But like I said before why moan that they are discontinuing them when you have the opportunity to get the platform as cheap as it is now? You should be grateful for the ability to buy it at all at these prices. They could have easily just produced the 960 for the X58 in the first place. There hasn't quite been an opportunity like this before. The glass seems half full to me.

There are two half full glasses, but they are incompatible. I would have preferred one full glass.

 

[taltamir]

the glass is ALWAYS 100% full... 50% is full of H2O molecules, and 50% is full of a mixture of gasses that contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: taltamir
the glass is ALWAYS 100% full... 50% is full of H2O molecules, and 50% is full of a mixture of gasses that contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases

The air inside the glass above the water surface also contains the requisite quantity of water molecules necessary to comprise the partial pressure of vapor at that temperature...which for room-temp (25C) and one atmosphere of pressure is about 3% by mole of water. A surprisingly not-small percentage.

 

[imported_Shaq]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: ilkhan
$700? How do you figure that?
And you know that P45 only gives x8/x8 too, right?

exactly.. you do not HAVE to go from P55 to X58 to make them full speed.
Besides which, you COULD sell your 4850 online and buy a 4850x2 single slot card that performs almost identically.
You are creating a false dilemma here.

I am actually THANKFUL that they are not forcing me to pay for a second full speed pcie slot, I have never used two separate cards and I probably never will. So stop making me pay for them.

But eventually you will need them. They can't do die shrinks forever. Multiple GPU solutions will be the norm in a few more years. Sooner if they have trouble shrinking below 30nm or later when converting to nanotechnology. And you will need more slots to utilize the power of the new cards as one slot will be saturated. Unless they have a new PCI-E specification that gave you 10x bandwith or something. But they wouldn't do that because of the policy of planned obsolescence. They can sell new motherboards every year or two with PCI-E 3,4,5,6 etc.

So instead of getting a multi-gpu card it is more cost effective to get 2 cards with full bandwidth slots as you can get pretty huge performance increases in some games (Crysis, GTA 4, FSX) That is mostly due to QPI though. We will see if DMI cripples SLI/XFire more than the x8/x8 PCI-E slots.

 

[taltamir]

another stupid false dilema. not only that, you counter your own "points" by stating planned obsolescence... so you admit it is going to be obsolete, and yet claim we need to buy it now to future proof it for technology that will not work with it anyways because it uses the next incompatible tech.

 

[imported_Shaq]

You stated you probably will never use multiple GPU's and I stated you will need to eventually. Of course all hardware becomes obsolete. I have stated that the X58 will be much more future proof and upgradeable than Lynnfield and it is only a $40 premium. The graphics bandwidth will be needed if you are not going to upgrade again until Sandy Bridge or later since you would have more bandwidth with two cards vs. using a multi-GPU card. Not to mention that multi-GPU cards cost more than buying the two cards separately. PCI-E 3.0 is supposed to be released next year but I don't know how they will implement it. Will they wait for the Sandy Bridge chipset? Maybe they will add it to a new revision of the X58 chipset next year?

You lost me on where I said it wouldn't work with future tech. PCI-E 2.0 cards work fine on 1.0 motherboards. PCI-E 6.0 will probably work on 2.0 motherboards but with a performance penalty. You can run a x16 PCI-E card in a x1 slot and in some cases, like F@H, there isn't a performance penalty. But in most cases there is a penalty.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Shaq
But eventually you will need them. They can't do die shrinks forever. Multiple GPU solutions will be the norm in a few more years. Sooner if they have trouble shrinking below 30nm or later when converting to nanotechnology. And you will need more slots to utilize the power of the new cards as one slot will be saturated. Unless they have a new PCI-E specification that gave you 10x bandwith or something. But they wouldn't do that because of the policy of planned obsolescence. They can sell new motherboards every year or two with PCI-E 3,4,5,6 etc.

So instead of getting a multi-gpu card it is more cost effective to get 2 cards with full bandwidth slots as you can get pretty huge performance increases in some games (Crysis, GTA 4, FSX) That is mostly due to QPI though. We will see if DMI cripples SLI/XFire more than the x8/x8 PCI-E slots.

Die shrinks are necessary to keep the power-consumption in check.

If die-shrinks are taken off the table then system integration will still be limited to how much power you (the manufacturer) can expect the consumer to be willing to pull from the wall (NEMA-15 in the US limits them to about 1.5kw for practical considerations) as well as how much heat/noise the consumer is willing to attempt to dissipate into their household's ambient.

For example it just isn't practical to expect/assume a sustainable market size exists representing consumers willing to pack 10 GT200's into a computer case while running dedicated split-lines for power distribution as they attempt to feed 2KW+ to the rig. To be sure there are a dozen or so people who would do it, but good luck making a successful business model while serving that demographic.

1KW is a practical upper limit to the power-consumption (including LCD's) that mass-market will ever accept...spread that budget around to printers, LCD's, CPU and GPU's all you like but the performance/watt limit is there and if die-shrinks stop happening then you are assured the absolute performance will stagnate as well.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: Scotteq

Originally posted by: SLIM
After reading anand's preview, the 2.8ghz lynnfield sounds like the chip to grab (HT, ultraturbo mode), but only if you can find it combo'ed with the right motherboard for a good price. Otherwise, you might as well get an i7. Then again, intel may get rid of all sub $500 i7s.

This is what the rumor mill has begun grinding:

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/h...core-i7-920-940-cpus/1

Even if this were true, my retail i7 920 has a 3-year warranty. I imagine I'll have moved on to a new setup in 3 years time. Thus, I don't care.

 

[Zensal]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: ilkhan
$700? How do you figure that?
And you know that P45 only gives x8/x8 too, right?

exactly.. you do not HAVE to go from P55 to X58 to make them full speed.
Besides which, you COULD sell your 4850 online and buy a 4850x2 single slot card that performs almost identically.
You are creating a false dilemma here.

I am actually THANKFUL that they are not forcing me to pay for a second full speed pcie slot, I have never used two separate cards and I probably never will. So stop making me pay for them.

With P45 and X48 no one is forcing you to have multiple, full speed PCI-E slots. But it is a choice. Choice is always good for the consumer.

The only choice when Lynnfield gets here will be X58 with i7, or P55 with Lynnfield. If Lynnfield gets bottlenecked in the future, it will require an entirely new platform, instead of just a motherboard upgrade.

 

[imported_Shaq]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Shaq
But eventually you will need them. They can't do die shrinks forever. Multiple GPU solutions will be the norm in a few more years. Sooner if they have trouble shrinking below 30nm or later when converting to nanotechnology. And you will need more slots to utilize the power of the new cards as one slot will be saturated. Unless they have a new PCI-E specification that gave you 10x bandwith or something. But they wouldn't do that because of the policy of planned obsolescence. They can sell new motherboards every year or two with PCI-E 3,4,5,6 etc.

So instead of getting a multi-gpu card it is more cost effective to get 2 cards with full bandwidth slots as you can get pretty huge performance increases in some games (Crysis, GTA 4, FSX) That is mostly due to QPI though. We will see if DMI cripples SLI/XFire more than the x8/x8 PCI-E slots.

Die shrinks are necessary to keep the power-consumption in check.

If die-shrinks are taken off the table then system integration will still be limited to how much power you (the manufacturer) can expect the consumer to be willing to pull from the wall (NEMA-15 in the US limits them to about 1.5kw for practical considerations) as well as how much heat/noise the consumer is willing to attempt to dissipate into their household's ambient.

For example it just isn't practical to expect/assume a sustainable market size exists representing consumers willing to pack 10 GT200's into a computer case while running dedicated split-lines for power distribution as they attempt to feed 2KW+ to the rig. To be sure there are a dozen or so people who would do it, but good luck making a successful business model while serving that demographic.

1KW is a practical upper limit to the power-consumption (including LCD's) that mass-market will ever accept...spread that budget around to printers, LCD's, CPU and GPU's all you like but the performance/watt limit is there and if die-shrinks stop happening then you are assured the absolute performance will stagnate as well.

I didn't quite mean it like that. lol I meant that we would have to run 2-4 GPUS, in the meantime, while they work on the die shrinks. At some point it will take longer to do shrinks while they engineer a new process. A tick-tock strategy works great for the short term but will slow down eventually. It is just my opinion that it will take longer to go smaller than 28-32nm and to transition to nanotechnology. And if they do hit a wall at some point multiple GPUS can give you roughly 200-400% more performance and stay under the 1kw limit you proposed. Although enthusiasts and institutions certainly would do it, I definitely wasn't proposing it as a long term strategy for regular consumers. I think it would be way more than a dozen people though. Have you ever visited any of the overclocking sites? lol

 

[ALBundyHere]

you mean the awesome super ultra power of the intel IGP? OMG! It will take me a week to stop laughing. There is no worse IGP out there period! Your lucky to even have color on your screen from it!

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: ALBundyHere
you mean the awesome super ultra power of the intel IGP? OMG! It will take me a week to stop laughing. There is no worse IGP out there period! Your lucky to even have color on your screen from it!

who are you talking to?