Core i7 980X doesn't seem much faster than Core i7 860?

[Gillbot]

This thread is interesting in an odd way. I've stayed out of it, because I'm not feeling any stress over my purchase decision, nor do I want recognition for my wisdom (or lack of wisdom). I actually don't care much what others think. May I ask gently, why the posters in this thread seem to care so much? I've had the most fun selecting components, building my box, and overclocking to levels far beyond anything I've acheived in my 15 years of overclocking homebuilts. And the box just purrs. I ran it at 3.8 for a while, and couldn't sense any difference when I lowered it back to 3.6...so that's where I run it, spanky performance, and cool temps. All my games (flight sim x, cod 4, bioshock, and the half life series) all run amazingly at extreme settings. My old gforce 8800 vid card is starting to get grey hair and its joints ache slightly on damp mornings (wait..that's me, not the vid card), but give it a game to render or max file to render and it kicks butt!!!! Its a single card, and will remain so, it seems to have relationship problems. I could never justify to myself the spending on a second card, when I'm enjoying my computer so much currently. You guys seem to have invented categories for people like me...Not enthusiast, I believe is my category according to this thread....How funny. Ok with me, labels make no sense to me. And why would I possibly want to convince a pleased owner of a 920 that he/she screwed up? Nothing gained there. I'll bet I'd be pretty pleased with a 920 myself. Just as pleased probably as I am with what I bought.

I only care because I don't want people reading a thread like this and be influenced by bad information. Give people all the information they need, and let them choose what fits their needs and budget.

 

[Markfw]

I only care because I don't want people reading a thread like this and be influenced by bad information. Give people all the information they need, and let them choose what fits their needs and budget.

+1

Exactly. Shall I summarize ?

1366 = more power, bandwidth, flexibility, at a cost. (my cost is lower than many due to my $118 open box low end mobo that does just fine@3.7)

1156 = better than anything else except 1366, and cheaper, but a little less bandwidth and flexibility, and less cost.

 

[bob5568]

Mark....in the event you are concerned with newbies receiving good information, shouldn't you condition your statements above with the circumstances in which the user would experience the affect of more power, bandwidth, and flexibility? That's the research that sold me on a slightly less $ build, when I realized that the extras you cite will not be valuable to me. Perhaps I should ask "If a computer has extra bandwidth, but the owner has no plan to use it, is there value" (sung to the tune, if a husband argues with his wife in the forest, but she is not able to hear it, is he still wrong).

 

[andy5174]

+1

Exactly. Shall I summarize ?

1366 = more power, bandwidth, flexibility, at a cost. (my cost is lower than many due to my $118 open box low end mobo that does just fine@3.7)

1156 = better than anything else except 1366, and cheaper, but a little less bandwidth and flexibility, and less cost.

That is all what I was trying to express and got flamed left to right because of this.

I wonder how many of LGA1366 owners would speak so rudely to me if I was a mod/admin.

These guys called me a childish kid, but me this childish kid at least don't use DIRTY words(e.g. shit) against you MATURE adults.

 

[Gillbot]

Mark....in the event you are concerned with newbies receiving good information, shouldn't you condition your statements above with the circumstances in which the user would experience the affect of more power, bandwidth, and flexibility? That's the research that sold me on a slightly less $ build, when I realized that the extras you cite will not be valuable to me. Perhaps I should ask "If a computer has extra bandwidth, but the owner has no plan to use it, is there value" (sung to the tune, if a husband argues with his wife in the forest, but she is not able to hear it, is he still wrong).

that's something for the user to decide. There should be no conditioning to his statements as they are pure fact. Give people facts and let them make their own decision.

 

[bob5568]

+1

1366 = more power, bandwidth, flexibility, at a cost. (my cost is lower than many due to my $118 open box low end mobo that does just fine@3.7)

Mark, aren't you teaching the newby that your method of building a 1366 reversed the cost consequence, without revealing you've also reversed the advertised "power advantage". Your mobo being low end would appear to produced easily matched performance by any 1156 system. A newby disinterested in a second vid card and one who will never spend more than $300 on a cpu, will acheive quite identical results building your box your way or my box my way, don't you think?

 

[andy5174]

Mark....in the event you are concerned with newbies receiving good information, shouldn't you condition your statements above with the circumstances in which the user would experience the affect of more power, bandwidth, and flexibility? That's the research that sold me on a slightly less $ build, when I realized that the extras you cite will not be valuable to me. Perhaps I should ask "If a computer has extra bandwidth, but the owner has no plan to use it, is there value" (sung to the tune, if a husband argues with his wife in the forest, but she is not able to hear it, is he still wrong).

+1

I also mentioned this indirectly by telling them 99.99% LGA1366 owners can't afford 2 high end video cards. In addition, the performance difference is unnoticeable even with 2 high end cards under (1920x1200).

Similarly, the future proof is useless on X58 for the majority as 32nm 6-core is too expensive.

 

[bob5568]

that's something for the user to decide. There should be no conditioning to his statements as they are pure fact. Give people facts and let them make their own decision.

It appears you are interested in providing limited information to the newby, but in truth, newbys benefit most from more than pure data. They need to be helped in using the data. Tell me in the blind that one car is more powerful than another, I'll have one reaction. I'll have a totally opposite reaction if you tell me that both cars will perform identically unless you live in Germany and have an Autobahn.

 

[andy5174]

that's something for the user to decide. There should be no conditioning to his statements as they are pure fact. Give people facts and let them make their own decision.

PURE FACT -> Personal opinions are EXCLUDED.

Price fact:

P55:

Intel Core i5 750 : $199.99 http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/c...com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215(or $149.99 at Microcenter)

Top end Asus P55_P7P55D-E Premium : $279.99



X58:

Intel Core i7 920 : $288.99 (or $199.99 at Microcenter)

Top end Asus X58_P6T7 WS Supercomputer : $399.99


Difference: $209; 43.54% more with X58(RAM price not considered)

Performance fact: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3641

 

[Gillbot]

+1

I also mentioned this indirectly by telling them 99.99% LGA1366 owners can't afford 2 high end video cards. In addition, the performance difference is unnoticeable even with 2 high end cards under (1920x1200).

Similarly, the future proof is useless on X58 for the majority as 32nm 6-core is too expensive.

Speak for yourself. Once again you are making assumptions for other people about what they can or cannot afford. Stop making assumptions and creating statistics and use facts. This is what got you into trouble in the first place.

It appears you are interested in providing limited information to the newby, but in truth, newbys benefit most from more than pure data. They need to be helped in using the data. Tell me in the blind that one car is more powerful than another, I'll have on reaction. I'll have a totally opposite reaction if you tell me that both cars will perform identically unless you live in Germany and have an Autobahn.

The use of the car is not our concern. It is the users decision to decide if they can justify it's use or not. Does anyone really need a Ferrari? No, but should we try to convince them NOT to get one if they can afford it just because they don't live near a track? No.

The problem is, people in this thread are making assumptions. Debating with facts is fine, drawing your own assumptions and using that data to bias people toward your opinion is simply trolling.

 

[andy5174]

Speak for yourself. Once again you are making assumptions for other people about what they can or cannot afford. Stop making assumptions and creating statistics and use facts. This is what got you into trouble in the first place.



The use of the car is not our concern. It is the users decision to decide if they can justify it's use or not. Does anyone really need a Ferrari? No, but should we try to convince them NOT to get one if they can afford it just because they don't live near a track? No.

The problem is, people in this thread are making assumptions. Debating with facts is fine, drawing your own assumptions and using that data to bias people toward your opinion is simply trolling.

Aren't you also making assumptions that LGA1366 owners can afford 2 high end card?

Furthermore, 99.99% LGA1366 owners can't afford 2 high end card is the truth. You can open a poll and see how many of the LGA1366 owners have 2 high end cards.

All of your opinions so far are based on your own thought ignoring the reality.

 

[andy5174]

OK guys, knock off the personal attacks, and keep this thread on topic. Continue and I'll start handing out vacations.


esquared
Anandtech Administrator

Glade to see this post!

No comment is with dirty/rude words now.

 

[Gillbot]

LGA1366 Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157163 $170, triple channel and tri-SLI compatible
LGA1366 CPU: http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0302727 $199
Ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134851 $85

1366 Total: $455

1156 Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138162 $135, dual channel and SLI compatible
1156 CPU: http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0317379 $190 since everyone recommends the i5
1156 Ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134637 $55

1156 total: $380

That's $75 difference, not $200+. The difference can be skewed in either direction by CPU, motherboard and ram choice which is why I will restate that it is an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[Gillbot]

Aren't you also making assumptions that LGA1366 owners can afford 2 high end card?

Furthermore, 99.99% LGA1366 owners can't afford 2 high end card is the truth. You can open a poll and see how many of the LGA1366 owners have 2 high end cards.

All of your opinions so far are based on your own thought ignoring the reality.

Stop making up statistics. Just flat stop. Furthermore, you are still makin an assumption as to WHAT a "high end" card is. You need to stop assuming, making blanket statements and souting off untrue numbers as fact.

I never said anything about what people could or could not afford. That's up to them to decide. You are the one making up numbers and attacthing them to whatever statistic you feel fit to make your argument.

 

[andy5174]

LGA1366 Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157163 $170, triple channel and tri-SLI compatible
LGA1366 CPU: http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0302727 $199
Ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134851 $85

1366 Total: $455

1156 Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138162 $135, dual channel and SLI compatible
1156 CPU: http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0317379 $190 since everyone recommends the i5
1156 Ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134637 $55

1156 total: $380

That's $75 difference, not $200+. The difference can be skewed in either direction by CPU, motherboard and ram choice which is why I will restate that it is an apples to oranges comparison.

OK. You are right with CURRENT Microcenter's pricing. Lucky Americans!

 

[Markfw]

Mark....in the event you are concerned with newbies receiving good information, shouldn't you condition your statements above with the circumstances in which the user would experience the affect of more power, bandwidth, and flexibility? That's the research that sold me on a slightly less $ build, when I realized that the extras you cite will not be valuable to me. Perhaps I should ask "If a computer has extra bandwidth, but the owner has no plan to use it, is there value" (sung to the tune, if a husband argues with his wife in the forest, but she is not able to hear it, is he still wrong).

Mark, aren't you teaching the newby that your method of building a 1366 reversed the cost consequence, without revealing you've also reversed the advertised "power advantage". Your mobo being low end would appear to produced easily matched performance by any 1156 system. A newby disinterested in a second vid card and one who will never spend more than $300 on a cpu, will acheive quite identical results building your box your way or my box my way, don't you think?

That was a summarizaton. For specifics, many of them are in this thread.

As for my "cheap" motherboard, I am sure thats why I can only get 3.7, instead of 4.2 or better like many. I just wanted to see what it would do. I do however have the bandwidth, 2 video card slots, and the ability to support a hex core.

Most of the time you get what you pay for. Again, a generality, but in my case in this instance, it applies.

 

[Gillbot]

OK. You are right with CURRENT Microcenter's pricing. Lucky Americans!

My statement still stands...

EDIT: Ok, lets use newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215 $199
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202 $288

That's still $543 for LGA 1366 vs. $390 for the LGA 1156 which is $153 difference. Still not the $200+ you claimed. Plus if one is so misinformed to shop at one store without looking at other places for better prices, I doubt they care enough about the performance difference between the two platforms to care about this debate to begin with so the pricing difference would be irrelevant.

The difference can be skewed in either direction by CPU, motherboard and ram choice which is why I will restate that it is an apples to oranges comparison.

Also from your OWN LINK,

My recommendations from the initial Lynnfield review still stand, you'll want to opt for Bloomfield processor if you care about:

1) High-end multi-GPU performance (or other uses of high bandwidth PCIe)
2) Stock Voltage Overclocking
3) Future support for 6-core Gulftown CPUs

In terms of cost effectiveness however - the Core i7 860 is the way to go. With cheaper motherboards and higher operating frequencies than a Core i7 920, for the majority of users the 860 will be the better pick. Here's where the discussion gets interesting however.

The lower cost of LGA1156 has NOT been debated. Your use of manufactured facts, statistics and assumptions are what's the primary source of heated argument. 99.9% of people on this forum know that.

 

[andy5174]

That was a summarizaton. For specifics, many of them are in this thread.

As for my "cheap" motherboard, I am sure thats why I can only get 3.7, instead of 4.2 or better like many. I just wanted to see what it would do. I do however have the bandwidth, 2 video card slots, and the ability to support a hex core.

Most of the time you get what you pay for. Again, a generality, but in my case in this instance, it applies.

LGA1366 IS superior for some professional CAD tasks and video encoding, and this is also shown in the link provided by me. Bob and I do not deny it.

We are just saying that LGA1156 makes more sense for the majority who don't take the extra advantage of the X58 platform.

 

[aigomorla]

You still don't get it. I am not talking about the best or cheapest products. What I am talking is the cost-performance ratio.

fine cost to performance ratio...

Lets look at that then.

You would need 3 x i5 machines to = 1 980X

Cost / performance... 1366 wins.


Now your gonna pull the low ball sector of the 1156 out?
Then fine... the CPU isnt important if you went 1156.
Your majorly neutered on the 32nm selection.

And sunny said it best.. Your comparing a consumer ground intro level with a top tier enthuiest platform.

Shall i make an easier comparison to what your doing?
Your telling people that the Corolla is better then the Lexus LS460.
(no im not kidding on this comparison either)
At least pull the i7 860 (Avalon) into the picture if you want to compare.

Well its cheaper... is it better? Not in the same class there buddy.

 

[andy5174]

My statement still stands...



Also from your OWN LINK,


The lower cost of LGA1156 has NOT been debated. Your use of manufactured facts, statistics and assumptions are what's the primary source of heated argument. 99.9% of people on this forum know that.

The price of i5 at Microcenter has been changed. It was merely $149.99.

 

[MJinZ]

X58 is ~52.7% more expensive than P55 AS LONG AS you don't compare high end P55 components with Mid/bottom range X58 components.

$300 P55 mobo + CPU
$400 X58 mobo + CPU

Way off. 33% more or less is about right.

Besides, if you're going to spend money on a P55 machine, you're already spending a lot of money... we're not talking about $150 AMD rigs here. Why limit yourself on upgradeability?

 

[aigomorla]

The price of i5 at Microcenter has been changed. It was merely $149.99.

Andy... this is where you just accept what others are saying, and admit a loss. ()

Your just digging yourself a deeper and deeper grave..

Once again..

i5 750 = Corolla...
i7 920 = Lexus LS460... hell make it a GS450 if it will make you feel better.
i7 860 = Avalon.

Compare an avalon to the lexus.. not a corolla.

 

[Gillbot]

The price of i5 at Microcenter has been changed. It was merely $149.99.

I'll restate yet again since you keep overlooking my post....

The difference can be skewed in either direction by CPU, motherboard and ram choice which is why I will restate that it is an apples to oranges comparison.

Also, if you really want to nitpick over pricing, go to the FS/FT section and look there. You can get parts even cheaper!

 

[Tsavo]

LGA1366 Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157163 $170, triple channel and tri-SLI compatible
LGA1366 CPU: http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0302727 $199
Ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134851 $85

1366 Total: $455

1156 Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138162 $135, dual channel and SLI compatible
1156 CPU: http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0317379 $190 since everyone recommends the i5
1156 Ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134637 $55

1156 total: $380

That's $75 difference, not $200+. The difference can be skewed in either direction by CPU, motherboard and ram choice which is why I will restate that it is an apples to oranges comparison.

To be fair, you are cherry-picking CPU price by going with a B&M store. The 920 at Newegg is $289.

 

[bob5568]

Most of the time you get what you pay for. Again, a generality, but in my case in this instance, it applies.

...and the only part that's missing is that this statement is only true up to a point. That point is when the person has gotten all he can use. At that point, it is possible to pay more, but the user doesn't get more.